Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015

Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015

Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.





Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.

Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives

Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives

2015-12-12

Copyright remains with the interview subject and their heirs.

video

LVTNT-30

Susan Clemens-Bruder

Nathan Braunstein

01:20:22

5.4 December 12, 2015 Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015 LVTNT-30 1:20:23 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Nathan Braunstein Marilyn Braunstein Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BraunsteinNathan_Marilyn_20151212 1.0:|19(3)|30(4)|41(9)|52(16)|67(2)|80(12)|95(13)|110(2)|123(16)|144(2)|169(6)|190(16)|207(3)|232(2)|253(12)|274(7)|291(3)|310(7)|327(13)|350(10)|367(8)|394(2)|419(14)|440(4)|461(12)|484(12)|505(11)|524(7)|545(7)|562(3)|581(12)|596(11)|617(8)|630(12)|643(3)|650(15)|661(14)|676(7)|693(3)|704(3)|723(4)|738(2)|757(8)|772(9)|789(7)|804(14)|819(9)|834(10)|849(3)|864(8)|879(9)|894(7)|911(2)|922(12)|937(6)|952(5)|967(9)|984(2)|997(12)|1016(6)|1029(2)|1040(13)|1059(8)|1074(8)|1087(12)|1100(10)|1115(3)|1128(6)|1141(4)|1162(4)|1179(8)|1198(6)|1213(17)|1230(12)|1245(12)|1256(14)|1271(8)|1282(9)|1303(5)|1320(19)|1321(14) 0 https://youtu.be/FqQAn_lR6uc YouTube video 0 Introduction—Nathan Braunstein SC: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. 0 24 Nathan's Family History SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know — where they were from, who they were, what they did?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. 0 399 Nathan's Education SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life?&#13 ; &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools 0 494 Moving to Allentown, PA SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother — you know, my mother and his family. 0 540 Early Experiences in the Apparel Industry SC: Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father — I worked in the office, which was...&#13 ; &#13 ; SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn’t work before [the business] — any casual jobs or anything?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit.&#13 ; &#13 ; SC: At your high school or at Lafayette?&#13 ; &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: When I went to Lafayette. 0 678 1951: First Business Fails GE: You're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: And did you know you were going to be — given you were working already in the apparels — did you know you were going to be in the apparel business?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. 0 847 Nathan's Brother—Creating a Family Business NB: In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that — he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside — and we started to build a business. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really-&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: And that was enough.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that-&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. 0 956 Building the Business—'Kickbacking' GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. 0 1115 Fashion in the '50-80s: Women's Shirtwaists, Men's Slacks GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this — you know, especially in the 50s — just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: I don’t know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company — you remember the Villager?&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: I do. &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men’s slacks — [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men’s slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. 0 1307 Product, Label, &amp ; Clients GE: So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or… &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Whoever we made it for. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... 0 1361 Decline of the Business GE: And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: The 90s, the late 90s.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Oh that was already that late?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: ‘91, ‘92.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the ‘90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell — it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: When did you finally sell? &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: ‘93. 0 1434 Nathan's Clients (cont'd) GE: Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn’t get it on tape.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: David Crystal. I don’t even remember the names anymore.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Evan Picone.&#13 ; &#13 ; SC: John Meyer of Norwich. 0 1505 Employees GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: At the height, 200. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn’t need as many operators.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: Because the machinery…?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery — to make billions, but to no avail. 0 1657 Niche Success of the Belt Business GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things — how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. 0 1760 Producing for the Manufacturers Versus Retailers GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you?&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners — what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that’s all. It’s just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we’d have to start from scratch all over again.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers — it's constantly a new market. 0 1934 Nathan's Involvement in the Jewish Community—Hadassah &amp ; the UJA GE: So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? ‘Cause that was another big part of your life. &#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: That’d be great.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. 0 2557 Introduction—Marilyn Braunstein SC: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born?&#13 ; &#13 ; MB: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 — 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. 0 2619 Marilyn's Family History SC: Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters — your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born?&#13 ; &#13 ; MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I’m not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. 0 3163 The '40s: Anti-Semitism at Muhlenberg Elementary School SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life — what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate.&#13 ; &#13 ; MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen — there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school — Muhlenberg, which is still in existence — and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. 0 3350 Meeting Nathan Braunstein at Allentown High School MB: Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don’t quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don’t remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. 0 3524 1950s: Married Life at Tremont Apartments MB: Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples — and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. 0 3611 Marilyn Braunstein's Service to Hadassah MB: I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends — we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to — and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. 0 4245 The Women of Hadassah MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. &#13 ; &#13 ; SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? &#13 ; &#13 ; MB: This is Mrs. Leonard.&#13 ; &#13 ; GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. &#13 ; &#13 ; SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that’s fine. &#13 ; &#13 ; GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey. 0 4597 Marilyn's Values and Inspirations SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? &#13 ; &#13 ; MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn’t really [Hadassah] — that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. 0 4694 Nathan Braunstein's Opinion on Changes in Hadassah NB: Can I interject something?&#13 ; &#13 ; SC: Sure.&#13 ; &#13 ; NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. 0 MovingImage Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.&#13 ; &#13 ; &#13 ; Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.&#13 ; Interview with Nathen Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born? NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know -- where they were from, who they were, what they did? NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. When he got to the United States, the First World War broke out, which deterred him from bringing my mother to join him. So in the ensuing years, what happened [is] he made a life for himself. He called for my mother sometime, I guess, around 1920, to bring her to the United States. Once she arrived here, shortly after he asked her for a divorce. Now, let's get to my father. My father must have been a rebel. His parents wanted him to be a rabbi. He ran away from home. He stowed away on a ship to the United States, and then they shipped him back when they found him. Whatever happened in Poland then is very sketchy to me -- the only thing I can remember now is that he came to the United States, he had his own life, he had a marriage, and when he met my- and I'm skipping around-- and he got involved in the apparel industry in Manhattan. And my mother, in the meantime, when she got here, was destitute and she knew how to sew. So she got a job in factories where she would sew garments and supported her son that way. And through the years -- and we're talking about a certain amount of years because I wasn't born until 1927 -- she must have been working at different factories, and my father was working at different factories, and my mother ended up working in the factory where my father was the manager. And he had lost his wife and he had four children, and I think my mother was prime to be -- wanted to be -- married, too. So they got together. SC: What was your father's name? NB: My father's name was Isadore, and my mother's name was Bertha. SC: So it was Isadore Braunstein. And your mother's maiden name? NB: Dornblott. Bertha Dornblott. But she had the name Bertha Retarsky, too. SC: Do you know your father's parents names and your mother's parents names at all? NB: No. I did have a grandfather. My father's father was living in the United States for a while ; but my father made him go back because he didn't want his mother to be alone. And so when I was a baby, I must have known them, but it's just a dream. SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life? NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools. But I got the basic education. And as far as higher education, I went to Lafayette for two years in Easton. And I thought I could do better without the education. And I was in love, so I left that education. SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown? NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother -- you know, my mother and his family. SC: So could you talk a little bit about after that? Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over. NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father -- I worked in the office, which was... SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn't work before [the business] -- any casual jobs or anything? NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit. SC: At your high school or at Lafayette? NB: When I went to Lafayette. SC: It's just sort of interesting to see how people maneuver through work to get to become a business owner, that's why I ask that. NB: Well from that I learned about the problems of the apparel business, when I was astute enough to pick up what was needed in the Valley, what I thought was needed, that I could do as a business. I had wanted to become a lawyer, but I gave that up. GAIL EISENBERG: And so, if you want to share with us a little bit: So you were working in the office. I'm just curious, what kinds of jobs or duties were you doing in the office? NB: Payroll. GE: Oh, you were doing the payroll. NB: Payroll was a big thing because everyone was on piece rate, and it was a difficult way-- GE: Yes, it was complicated. Yes. Okay. NB: And no computers. GE: Right. And so... you're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business? NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that. GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that? NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field. GE: And did you know you were going to be -- given you were working already in the apparels -- did you know you were going to be in the apparel business? NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. There was only one other company that was in Wilkes-Barre. GE: So you recognized the need and and therefore you felt that was something that you would be able to fulfill and to satisfy and do well. NB: So I started- how did that work again? GE: About what year is that? Let's say when you started, about what year? NB: Pardon me? GE: About what year? What was the timeframe? NB: About 1951. GE: Okay, so quite early. You were just married. NB: That's right. GE: Right. Okay, and tell us a little bit about how you got started. NB: I got started this way: My father-in-law, we had a little conversation, and he offered to give me five-thousand dollars to go into business -- which in those days was a lot of money. But I didn't do well in that business. I lost it. GE: And that was trying to still do the belts? NB: Still belts. I lost it, so I had to get a job. I went to- I got myself to Wilkes-Barre, and I told them that I could bring in customers to their belt company. And I started to work for them, I worked for them for a year. In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that -- he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside -- and we started to build a business. GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really- NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need. NB: And that was enough. GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory. NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well. GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that- NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. GE: How many customers did you have the first couple of years? NB: Well, we had two or three customers. Kept building on it. GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression? NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. GE: Yeah, I believe that. NB: So, you know, there were times when I would talk to New York manufacturers where we say, "We give you the business, but you have to pay off." I says, "What's pay off?" He says, "I don't give my trimming manager a big salary, so if you want to make belts for me, you have to give him five percent." Hey, that's business. SC: Is that called a shakedown? NB: No, that's a kickback. I learned that very well. GE: And is that what needed to happen? NB: You don't know how many houses I built -- through kickbacks! I mean, well, where the trimming man would say to me, you know, "I need storm windows in my house" -- we would do it. If the account was big enough, we would do it. It's happening in Allentown now. That's called kickback. GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this -- you know, especially in the 50s -- just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that. NB: I don't know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company -- you remember the Villager? GE: I do. NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men's slacks -- [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men's slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. GE: And at least in the beginning, the product- you want to just describe the product? I think you said it was the belt with the material, right? Was the material over the belt? NB: The material over the belt or you would have a webbing with leather tabs. GE: Okay, I'm trying to remember what that was like. And the shirtwaist dresses, they lasted in fashion until about what time period? I think, what, through the mid-60s? NB: Well it was-- through the 80s. GE: Really? That was the shirtwaist dress? NB: Well, the late 70s. MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: With the sweater to match. NB: Oh yeah, that sweater dress. GE: Sweater dress. Okay. And then the men's pants, they also had similar [design]. And then I remember you telling us- tell us about some of the other types of belts that you then started [producing]. NB: Well that one, when I saturated that, there was only one other way to go: that was a retail market. Which had- which encompassed new machinery, because we were making finer belts and growing that. So it was a great adventure, actually, because-- it was exciting. GE: And quite a challenge. NB: Always a challenge. GE: Right. So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? NB: Right. GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately. NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or-- GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. NB: Whoever we made it for. GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct? NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... GE: Okay. So let's see: you were in business. Tell us about -- you and your brother started, this was around 1951. And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? NB: The 90s, the late 90s. GE: Oh that was already that late? NB: '91, '92. GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the '90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell -- it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea. GE: When did you finally sell? NB: '93. GE: Okay. So once it began in the '90s, it really got hurt. Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn't get it on tape. NB: David Crystal. I don't even remember the names anymore. GE: Evan Picone. SC: John Meyer of Norwich. NB: Well you're just repeating what I said. GE: But we didn't have it on the tape. NB: Oh, I see. GE: Once the company -- once a manufacturer -- let you break in, let you start making their belts, then did they stay with you? NB: They stayed with me. College Town -- did you ever hear of College Town? Slacks, sportswear, Panther. I used to get orders like two hundred thousand at a time. GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak? NB: At the height, 200. GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of? NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn't need as many operators. GE: Because the machinery--? NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery -- to make billions, but to no avail. I took a trip to Taiwan, and saw how they worked, and I knew I really had to get out because those girls were working- my girls, with their fringes, at that time were making twelve dollars an hour, and these girls were making not even twelve dollars a week. GE: So even as you were having fewer and fewer employees, it's still you could not- the labor cost was so [expensive]. NB: And you couldn't match it for another reason too: since the manufacturer was doing everything there, the Chinese were doing everything there for them -- with belts, too! GE: So even the shipping, you would have shipping and transportation costs. NB: It was a lost cause. They needed us -- our manufacturers needed us because they wanted to have somebody to make samples for them. But we were just being used for a while, 'til we realized, you know, they would throw business our way, but not the 200,000 quantity orders anymore. So, it was sad. I love that business. It was so... to me, it was like watching something grow that I built and then have it torn down. GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things -- how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right. GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. NB: And I even grew bigger than the guy in Wilkes-Barre -- and they were mafia connected. GE: Did they ever give you any trouble, that when you left them and you started...? NB: [No.] GE: Okay, that's good. I remember you telling us last time about some of the challenges, the unique challenges it was, going from being where you're making for manufacturers versus now. What were the new things you had to learn and had to excel at and had to begin to do when you started going to retail? You know, how is that a new challenge? [phone interrupts interview] GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you? NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners -- what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that's all. It's just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we'd have to start from scratch all over again. GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers -- it's constantly a new market. NB: My trick was, when I dealt with manufacturers, I had to deal with trimming and purchases. Well I would get into their heads, I would become friendly, they would become my family. When I came to town, and I'd listen to all their troubles, and they were my friends. So I kept a customer that I liked, but I also kept up my quality and everything. GE: So it was very much quality, right price, and relationship. And it sounds like the relationship was also very important. NB: It is. In today's world, relationships are not that great because people do business with email. Now how do you get to know somebody with an email? You don't. It's tough for people. GE: And they're also just- the businesses seem to be very, very different today when we don't have the same manufacturing that we used to have. You mentioned something that you didn't mention before -- that you were in real estate. Was that after the [business]? Did you say something about building homes or not? SC: No, that was the kickbacks. That was just a metaphor. GE: Okay. I think in terms of the business, that was a pretty good- you know, you gave us a pretty good [description]. I think we got most of the information. So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? 'Cause that was another big part of your life. NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. GE: That'd be great. NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. On Marilyn's second trip to Israel -- it was a three week trip, three weeks on a bus with Jewish women! And I became the mechanic to fix all the cameras and help them. And became friendly . . . it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. But I also found out what we as Jews owe to other Jews, especially with the loss of six million. And I became very serious about that whole thing. And I felt that if there were 10 million Jews in the United States -- or in the world, in the world at that time -- we owed for six million lost souls, and we have a responsibility. And people used to cross the street when they saw me because I was-- And anyway, I started out in working for the UJA office here as a volunteer after that trip. But I was always a little bit involved before we went with Hadassah. Whatever I did was very minimal, but what really helped also was the fact that my business was doing better, and I could be more philanthropic. Not that people that have good businesses are philanthropic, but it was just me that felt that way because of Marilyn's tutelage. And I worked on the campaign, I solicited people. And that became like a challenge for me too, like the belt business. It was- I've got to be the best, I've got to be the best at it. So in a short period of time, I became a regional chairman for UJA. And then I was asked to go on the national board, and that was such a fantastic feeling because there were probably... it must have been 14 or 15 of us that all thought the same way about the Jewish cause. And I stayed on it until the '80s. When my business was going, I couldn't maintain the gifts I was making. It's still a part of my life that was just a magnificent feeling, magnificent. There is -- and I'm not being melodramatic saying [this] -- that giving is such a high. Helping someone else is such a high. It's one of the highest things. It's better than getting. GE: In many ways, I think much better than getting. I remember last time, if you want to share with us a little bit: the influence of your father-in-law and uncle in regards to all this. NB: What story should I end it on? Your Uncle Bernie? Uncle Bernie was my father-in-law's brother. MB: Who was seven years younger. NB: He was really the philanthropic leader of the UJA. And when I started to get involved, he came and gave me a lecture and he said, "Now look, Nate, I don't want you to embarrass me." MB: What about the [inaudible]? NB: You want me to tell the story? We bought a second home. And Bernie and naturally my father-in-law, Victor, they all came to see the house, and pass judgment on it, and all that stuff. And I was the first one in the family that had a second home. So it caused a lot of rift. "How did Nate do this?" Blah blah blah and all that stuff. And one day, during the fall, I get a call from Uncle Bernie to come down to their office. I come down, and he sits me down, he says, "You know, the first thing you have to do is take care of Jews. And what you did, you went out and bought a second home before you're doing anything for the Jewish people." And he starts lecturing me, and I said, "You're out of line. You have no right to talk to me this way. Absolutely not. First of all, my father-in-law was sitting over there. If he wants to say something about what I do with my money, he can. But you can't. I'm not going to listen to what you're saying." And I said, "I will do for Jews my way and you won't be embarrassed." GE: And you always maintained a very nice relationship. NB: What? GE: He was satisfied. You and Bernie and of course your father-in-law, you always maintained a very good relationship. NB: Of course. In fact, he was very proud -- and also worried. He'd given away everything. But he's very proud. When he was old and sick, he came to live with us. First of all, Marilyn was his shining star. I can still hear him calling Marilyn, right now in my mind -- when he needed help. MB: Did you say anything about my brother? NB: No. MB: My brother died when he was 70, so. GE: When he was 70, when he was- when your brother was 70? MB: Yeah. GE: He died the day after my father-in-law. MB: Yeah. We had two caskets in the sanctuary. And a lot of people didn't know about my brother. They were coming to see my father. SC: I think Nate answered both of those questions, so that's fine. Thank you. Interview with Marilyn Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born? MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 -- 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. I'm supposed to talk about my life? SC: Yes. Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters -- your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born? MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I'm not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. They had their own little house on Grant Street, which is in the sixth ward of the community. My father was just five or six, so he started school and he never really- he never spoke with an accent because he went to school as a young child. But when he was old enough to go to work, he and my grandfather went out on their horse and buggy to pick up scrap wherever -- you know, they went into the country, into Lehighton and Palmerton and all those little towns around here. And that's how he made a living until he bought a building and became much more involved in the business. The business grew, and he had all the Syrian neighbors -- they were all Christian Syrians -- and they also were what we called junkmen. And they used to bring all their stuff to my grandfather. And there were three brothers in the family. My father was Victor, and Bernie, and Sam. And then there were seven girls, so there were nine siblings all together. So what fun it was to go to my grandmother's house every Sunday and be with this family. My grandmother made her tuna fish -- tuna fish! I don't know how this Russian-Polish lady learned to make tuna fish salad but that's what she made. And my aunts, you want all my aunts names? I don't wanna do it. But there were seven, seven and three -- no, six and three. Nine, nine children. Okay, that was my paternal [family]. My maternal grandparents were Chaim and Sarah Greenberg. My grandmother's maiden name was Epstein. And they were born in Poland, too. I don't know how they got to London- I mean England, or why they went to England. They met in England. They got married and they had five children in England, my mother being the youngest at that time. She was a few months old. They came to this country, then, in 1902. My grandfather was a schneider [Yiddish for tailor], he was a tailor. So he- they came to Allentown because my grandmother's sister -- sister's husband was the rabbi in Allentown. So that's why they came to Allentown. There are ten siblings in my mother's family. My mother is Anna, my grandmother was Sarah -- I told you that -- and my grandfather was Chaim. And he had a tailor shop in the front of the house where they lived on Second Street between Turner and Linden. In there. And the front of the house, the living room, was his shop. And that's what he did. He was a tailor. And they lived, I don't know for how many years they lived there, but I know my mother worked -- went to work, I think she was a teenager. I don't remember exactly how it all occurred, but she worked at the Grammes Company. I don't know if it's still in business in Allentown. She worked an addressograph. Anyway, my father and mother were married in 1924, by Rabbi Krevsky, who was the rabbi in Allentown. It used to be called the Sixth Street Shul, [Yiddish for synagogue] because that's where the synagogue was for the congregation, the Sons of Israel, which is now on Twenty-seventh and Tilghman. My grandfather, my father's father, was very involved with Agudas Achim, which was Orthodox synagogue, and he would live within walking distance of the shul. So he was there every day and that was where he belonged to. My other grandfather belonged to a shul five doors away, called-- It will come to me. But anyway, they used to call it the Bolsheviki-y shul. My grandfather must have been a Bolsheviki, I don't know. Everyone looked down on that shul. So we used to go from one shul to the other, and everybody used to hang out in front of the shul. And there was always arguments for who was going to-- What is it at the end, where they- where you buy the right to--? I forget. So there was always a fight: Who was going to buy the right to say, I don't remember which it was. Anyway, sometimes cops had to come to break it up, it got so violent. They don't do those things anymore. They were a real bunch. And on that street was also two Kosher butchers and a Kosher store to buy fish and things. So it was a little community service there, for the Jewish community. It was a very nice, pleasant place to be. Yeah. And anyway, that's it. SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life -- what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate. MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen -- there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school -- Muhlenberg, which is still in existence -- and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. Anyway, I didn't have really any Jewish friends until junior high school. I did go to the Jewish Community Center -- Daycare Center. I loved it, loved it, because my people were there and I felt included. That was- that's a nice camp and it still exists. It was wonderful. And I spent a lot of time at the JCC every Sunday where everybody used to come in and take a trolley downtown. And we had a jukebox there and we all danced. We danced the jitterbug, I guess that's what that was in the 1940s. So that was- it was a lot of fun. And we formed the Young Judaea Club for the girls. So we used to come down one night a week and meet Young Judea and we picked a certain night because the Boy Scouts met that night, so we had everything figured out. Anyway, those were my junior high school years. Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don't quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don't remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. He made dresses like many people did here. So anyway, I met Nate at the Superior Restaurant, and it was right before my sweet sixteen party. So of course I invited him to my sweet sixteen party, and I never went out with anybody else after that. My father was not happy about that, but he thought I was too young. Nate was nineteen, I was sixteen. He said, "He's too old for you!" So nobody listened to my father. He thought we did. And when Nate graduated, he went to Lafayette College for two years. I decided that -- and my father was in full agreement, which he shouldn't have been -- and since I was so in love with this guy, why should I go to college? So I didn't. I went to a business school in Bethlehem, and I went there for two years, so that's what I did. I went to be a secretary. So anyway, Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples -- and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. Anyway, after- we had Cherie, after when I had Laurie, we moved into a house on 23rd and Washington up the street from the Center. It was in the- Was the Center built then? I don't think... No, the center was not built then. The center was built in 1957. But anyway, it was a wonderful place to live because all you had to do was like roll down the hill and you were there. So our lives were wrapped around the Center. Then I tell you -- through the years, I was active. I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends -- we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to -- and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. And Mrs. Leonard, who was the founder of Hadassah -- Allentown Hadassah-- Do you want me to stop? [interview is interrupted] SC: Well, maybe we should just move to- Well your work at Hadassah and then I'll ask you, what made you feel the most creative and what you valued most in life. Most creative and Hadassah is what you said last time, so maybe just move through what you did in Hadassah and I'll ask you the other one. MB: Anyway, where was I? I was very involved with Hadassah. I did a lot of things -- I collected blue boxes, I went door to door day to get puskas [Yiddish--charity box used to collect doinations] and everyone was very pleasant, and that was one of the jobs, one of the important jobs . . . try to find somebody to do that today. So I stayed with Hadassah, I got on the board, and did many, many jobs. It was like stepping up and training me to be- I never expected to be asked to be president. And my best friend said, when they had the nomination committee meeting, that I wouldn't take it if they asked me, they were sure I would say no. So... I said yes. And that was 1970, it's a two year term, to 1972. That was my year, the year that I made my first trip to Israel. They were dedicating or rededicating the building on Mount Scopus. That was in no man's land during the war. The Arabs were here, the Israelis were here. This was- this territory in between belonged to no one.But they tried to use the hospital and they had patients there and doctors used to come in, convoys up Mount Scopus to take care of the patients. But, I don't know what year it was, but they were- when Israel declared themselves a state, the Arabs murdered everyone in that convoy, all these doctors and patients, as they were going up to Mount Scopus. And the English did nothing, they just stood by and watched. Anyway, they knew they had to build another hospital within the boundaries of Jewish Palestine. In the meantime, their work was done in another hospital and I don't remember. But anyway, the new hospital was built in Ein Kerem, which is in Western Jerusalem. There was no contest about building a hospital there. I don't remember when it was finished, but I know I went a couple of years later, and I remember Muriel and Phil Berman putting the mezuzah on the door. They were extremely active and they- one of the nursing hospitals was one that they gave the money for. They were wonderful. And Muriel used to come back from all these trips and we had Board meetings and tell us what happened. Was really so thrilling to hear it from the first person like that. And I said to her, then, "Muriel, I want to be able to do that someday." That didn't happen, but we were very happy to be big contributors to Hadassah. Nate loved it. I took him, I dragged him along on my second trip with George and Mina Finkelstein. And George's suitcase never came. George must have been [unclear], and he was wearing [Nate's] clothes until his luggage came. Kind of funny. Anyway, they were wonderful to be with because they had lived in Jerusalem for many years. In fact, Arnon says that he's a Palestinian. He was born there. Anyway, we- Nate became so involved with the philanthropics of Hadassah, that he got caught up in it and he became involved with -- what was it called? It was called UJA, it was not called Federation -- United Jewish Appeal. So he started as a solicitor, I think, and worked his way up into the Presidency and Chairman of the Campaign. And we used to go to the big meetings in New York where everybody came to announce their pledges. So we used to go there and they would stand up and announce his pledge. And a lot of times I -- I'm falling through the table! Anyway, that was his love and there was nothing I could do to tell him that you're doing too much. He never felt he gave enough. So he loved it, and he felt he made a lot of Jews that weren't Jews before. And one of his jobs being on the National Board was to travel with-- NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: You're telling my story. MB: Are you supposed to tell your story? GAIL EISENBERG: Yes, we'll let him tell his story. SC: You know, the last time we asked what made you feel the most creative and what you valued so much, you talked about what Hadassah meant to you. Can you talk a little bit about that? MB: Hadassah meant everything to me. My best friends were also involved with Hadassah and we worked together on projects. We used to sit and cut out invitations, we cooked in the kitchen. It was very close to my heart, and I loved being able to contribute to Hadassah. GE: You know what, may I bring the picture- you have a picture of the women presidents. I'm going to bring it, okay? Because that was also- you just shared with us a little bit, who these different presidents were. MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? MB: This is Mrs. Leonard. GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that's fine. GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey MB: Mina was dynamic. Mina, and of course, Muriel Berman. She was great. And Nettie Klass lived across the street from the Center. It's a good thing she did because one night she saw flames coming out of the building. Yeah, somebody set fire to it. I don't know. The office was destroyed and the lobby. I don't know how long it took to fix it. I don't know if they ever caught the people who did it. But thank God, Nettie lived across the street! And we used to spend a lot of time with Netty, because she knew everything about Hadassah -- who was coming, who was going, who was moving. So we used to laugh, and we used to say, "Somebody's sitting under this table and listening to all of this." We used to gossip . . . terrible. But we had fun with Nettie, Netty was wonderful. And Edie was- she brought youth to Hadassah. NB: The Board. To the Board. MB: Oh, she's the one who brought me to the board, is that what you said? I don't know. But it was Edie and then it was Rhoda and Joyce, who moved here. Joyce was from Philadelphia. NB: Joyce was a younger woman. She was the first of the younger women, Edie. MB: And Joyce was from Philadelphia. She went to school with Wilt the Stilt. He was in her class. She's very, very bright. Anyway, her husband was a lawyer. After he graduated law school, they moved to Orlando, Florida, but didn't stay too long. And luckily they came to Allentown. She was a delight, really energetic. She brought all kinds of ideas to us, we were doing all kinds of stuff, everything was so original. Every dance, every dance we had was very special. She just made us work. We worked a lot. And her poor husband, Harry, if we had a board meeting at her house and it was snow on the pavement, she called him up at his office and said, "Harry, you come home, you gotta shovel the snow." Harry was so good. Anyway, they moved to New York, and by that time, Harry had had cancer, prostate cancer. And we lost him, so Joyce lived alone in New York and was very involved with Hadassah. She would have been, I'm sure, national president if she didn't have to work. She moved -- she sold the condo on 57th Street near Bloomingdale's and moved to Florida. That's where Joyce is today. And Joyce is so beautiful and so smart. We thought in five years she's going to be married. She's still single -- she's in her late 70s already. So I guess she's not going to get [married]. But anyway, she still loves Hadassah. SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn't really [Hadassah] -- that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us. NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. MB: It was nice being involved with Hadassah because it was something I could share with Nate. NB: Can I interject something? SC: Sure. NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. SC: It's the story of the United States, too. Things have changed, where women . . . NB: There's a dichotomy to this: Hadassah and Allentown is very, very weak. But the Women's Jewish Federation division is stronger than the men's division. And that's where the impetus of giving and where it's smart to belong has grown, and I can live in it. SC: And is the Federation men and women? NB: The men are set up to take -- a backwards step. I mean, I was very involved here in Allentown. Anyway finish with Marilyn, I shouldn't be doing this now. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=