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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Nathan Braunstein
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5.4 December 12, 2015 Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015 LVTNT-30 1:20:23 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Nathan Braunstein Marilyn Braunstein Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BraunsteinNathan_Marilyn_20151212 1.0:|19(3)|30(4)|41(9)|52(16)|67(2)|80(12)|95(13)|110(2)|123(16)|144(2)|169(6)|190(16)|207(3)|232(2)|253(12)|274(7)|291(3)|310(7)|327(13)|350(10)|367(8)|394(2)|419(14)|440(4)|461(12)|484(12)|505(11)|524(7)|545(7)|562(3)|581(12)|596(11)|617(8)|630(12)|643(3)|650(15)|661(14)|676(7)|693(3)|704(3)|723(4)|738(2)|757(8)|772(9)|789(7)|804(14)|819(9)|834(10)|849(3)|864(8)|879(9)|894(7)|911(2)|922(12)|937(6)|952(5)|967(9)|984(2)|997(12)|1016(6)|1029(2)|1040(13)|1059(8)|1074(8)|1087(12)|1100(10)|1115(3)|1128(6)|1141(4)|1162(4)|1179(8)|1198(6)|1213(17)|1230(12)|1245(12)|1256(14)|1271(8)|1282(9)|1303(5)|1320(19)|1321(14) 0 https://youtu.be/FqQAn_lR6uc YouTube video 0 Introduction—Nathan Braunstein SC: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born?
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 ; NB: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. 0 24 Nathan's Family History SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know — where they were from, who they were, what they did?
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 ; NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. 0 399 Nathan's Education SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life?
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 ; NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools 0 494 Moving to Allentown, PA SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown?
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 ; NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother — you know, my mother and his family. 0 540 Early Experiences in the Apparel Industry SC: Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over.
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 ; NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father — I worked in the office, which was...
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 ; SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn’t work before [the business] — any casual jobs or anything?
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 ; NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit.
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 ; SC: At your high school or at Lafayette?
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 ; NB: When I went to Lafayette. 0 678 1951: First Business Fails GE: You're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business?
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 ; NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that.
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 ; GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that?
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 ; NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field.
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 ; GE: And did you know you were going to be — given you were working already in the apparels — did you know you were going to be in the apparel business?
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 ; NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. 0 847 Nathan's Brother—Creating a Family Business NB: In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that — he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside — and we started to build a business. 
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 ; GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really-
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 ; NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. 
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 ; GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need.
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 ; NB: And that was enough.
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 ; GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory.
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 ; NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well.
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 ; GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that-
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 ; NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. 0 956 Building the Business—'Kickbacking' GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression?
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 ; NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. 0 1115 Fashion in the '50-80s: Women's Shirtwaists, Men's Slacks GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this — you know, especially in the 50s — just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that.
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 ; NB: I don’t know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company — you remember the Villager?
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 ; GE: I do. 
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 ; NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men’s slacks — [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men’s slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. 0 1307 Product, Label, & ; Clients GE: So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? 
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 ; NB: Right.
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 ; GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately.
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 ; NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or… 
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 ; GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. 
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 ; NB: Whoever we made it for. 
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 ; GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct?
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 ; NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... 0 1361 Decline of the Business GE: And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? 
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 ; NB: The 90s, the late 90s.
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 ; GE: Oh that was already that late?
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 ; NB: ‘91, ‘92.
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 ; GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the ‘90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? 
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 ; NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell — it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea.
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 ; GE: When did you finally sell? 
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 ; NB: ‘93. 0 1434 Nathan's Clients (cont'd) GE: Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn’t get it on tape.
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 ; NB: David Crystal. I don’t even remember the names anymore.
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 ; GE: Evan Picone.
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 ; SC: John Meyer of Norwich. 0 1505 Employees GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak?
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 ; NB: At the height, 200. 
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 ; GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of?
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 ; NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn’t need as many operators.
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 ; GE: Because the machinery…?
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 ; NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery — to make billions, but to no avail. 0 1657 Niche Success of the Belt Business GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things — how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? 
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 ; NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right.
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 ; GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. 0 1760 Producing for the Manufacturers Versus Retailers GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you?
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 ; NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners — what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that’s all. It’s just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we’d have to start from scratch all over again.
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 ; GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers — it's constantly a new market. 0 1934 Nathan's Involvement in the Jewish Community—Hadassah & ; the UJA GE: So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? ‘Cause that was another big part of your life. 
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 ; NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. 
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 ; GE: That’d be great.
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 ; NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. 0 2557 Introduction—Marilyn Braunstein SC: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born?
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 ; MB: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 — 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. 0 2619 Marilyn's Family History SC: Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters — your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born?
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 ; MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I’m not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. 0 3163 The '40s: Anti-Semitism at Muhlenberg Elementary School SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life — what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate.
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 ; MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen — there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school — Muhlenberg, which is still in existence — and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. 0 3350 Meeting Nathan Braunstein at Allentown High School MB: Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don’t quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don’t remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. 0 3524 1950s: Married Life at Tremont Apartments MB: Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples — and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. 0 3611 Marilyn Braunstein's Service to Hadassah MB: I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends — we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to — and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. 0 4245 The Women of Hadassah MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. 
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 ; SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? 
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 ; MB: This is Mrs. Leonard.
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 ; GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. 
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 ; SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that’s fine. 
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 ; GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey. 0 4597 Marilyn's Values and Inspirations SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? 
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 ; MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn’t really [Hadassah] — that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us.
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 ; NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. 0 4694 Nathan Braunstein's Opinion on Changes in Hadassah NB: Can I interject something?
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 ; SC: Sure.
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 ; NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. 0 MovingImage Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.
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 ; 
 ; Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.
 ; Interview with Nathen Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born? NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know -- where they were from, who they were, what they did? NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. When he got to the United States, the First World War broke out, which deterred him from bringing my mother to join him. So in the ensuing years, what happened [is] he made a life for himself. He called for my mother sometime, I guess, around 1920, to bring her to the United States. Once she arrived here, shortly after he asked her for a divorce. Now, let's get to my father. My father must have been a rebel. His parents wanted him to be a rabbi. He ran away from home. He stowed away on a ship to the United States, and then they shipped him back when they found him. Whatever happened in Poland then is very sketchy to me -- the only thing I can remember now is that he came to the United States, he had his own life, he had a marriage, and when he met my- and I'm skipping around-- and he got involved in the apparel industry in Manhattan. And my mother, in the meantime, when she got here, was destitute and she knew how to sew. So she got a job in factories where she would sew garments and supported her son that way. And through the years -- and we're talking about a certain amount of years because I wasn't born until 1927 -- she must have been working at different factories, and my father was working at different factories, and my mother ended up working in the factory where my father was the manager. And he had lost his wife and he had four children, and I think my mother was prime to be -- wanted to be -- married, too. So they got together. SC: What was your father's name? NB: My father's name was Isadore, and my mother's name was Bertha. SC: So it was Isadore Braunstein. And your mother's maiden name? NB: Dornblott. Bertha Dornblott. But she had the name Bertha Retarsky, too. SC: Do you know your father's parents names and your mother's parents names at all? NB: No. I did have a grandfather. My father's father was living in the United States for a while ; but my father made him go back because he didn't want his mother to be alone. And so when I was a baby, I must have known them, but it's just a dream. SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life? NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools. But I got the basic education. And as far as higher education, I went to Lafayette for two years in Easton. And I thought I could do better without the education. And I was in love, so I left that education. SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown? NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother -- you know, my mother and his family. SC: So could you talk a little bit about after that? Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over. NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father -- I worked in the office, which was... SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn't work before [the business] -- any casual jobs or anything? NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit. SC: At your high school or at Lafayette? NB: When I went to Lafayette. SC: It's just sort of interesting to see how people maneuver through work to get to become a business owner, that's why I ask that. NB: Well from that I learned about the problems of the apparel business, when I was astute enough to pick up what was needed in the Valley, what I thought was needed, that I could do as a business. I had wanted to become a lawyer, but I gave that up. GAIL EISENBERG: And so, if you want to share with us a little bit: So you were working in the office. I'm just curious, what kinds of jobs or duties were you doing in the office? NB: Payroll. GE: Oh, you were doing the payroll. NB: Payroll was a big thing because everyone was on piece rate, and it was a difficult way-- GE: Yes, it was complicated. Yes. Okay. NB: And no computers. GE: Right. And so... you're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business? NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that. GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that? NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field. GE: And did you know you were going to be -- given you were working already in the apparels -- did you know you were going to be in the apparel business? NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. There was only one other company that was in Wilkes-Barre. GE: So you recognized the need and and therefore you felt that was something that you would be able to fulfill and to satisfy and do well. NB: So I started- how did that work again? GE: About what year is that? Let's say when you started, about what year? NB: Pardon me? GE: About what year? What was the timeframe? NB: About 1951. GE: Okay, so quite early. You were just married. NB: That's right. GE: Right. Okay, and tell us a little bit about how you got started. NB: I got started this way: My father-in-law, we had a little conversation, and he offered to give me five-thousand dollars to go into business -- which in those days was a lot of money. But I didn't do well in that business. I lost it. GE: And that was trying to still do the belts? NB: Still belts. I lost it, so I had to get a job. I went to- I got myself to Wilkes-Barre, and I told them that I could bring in customers to their belt company. And I started to work for them, I worked for them for a year. In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that -- he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside -- and we started to build a business. GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really- NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need. NB: And that was enough. GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory. NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well. GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that- NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. GE: How many customers did you have the first couple of years? NB: Well, we had two or three customers. Kept building on it. GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression? NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. GE: Yeah, I believe that. NB: So, you know, there were times when I would talk to New York manufacturers where we say, "We give you the business, but you have to pay off." I says, "What's pay off?" He says, "I don't give my trimming manager a big salary, so if you want to make belts for me, you have to give him five percent." Hey, that's business. SC: Is that called a shakedown? NB: No, that's a kickback. I learned that very well. GE: And is that what needed to happen? NB: You don't know how many houses I built -- through kickbacks! I mean, well, where the trimming man would say to me, you know, "I need storm windows in my house" -- we would do it. If the account was big enough, we would do it. It's happening in Allentown now. That's called kickback. GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this -- you know, especially in the 50s -- just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that. NB: I don't know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company -- you remember the Villager? GE: I do. NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men's slacks -- [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men's slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. GE: And at least in the beginning, the product- you want to just describe the product? I think you said it was the belt with the material, right? Was the material over the belt? NB: The material over the belt or you would have a webbing with leather tabs. GE: Okay, I'm trying to remember what that was like. And the shirtwaist dresses, they lasted in fashion until about what time period? I think, what, through the mid-60s? NB: Well it was-- through the 80s. GE: Really? That was the shirtwaist dress? NB: Well, the late 70s. MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: With the sweater to match. NB: Oh yeah, that sweater dress. GE: Sweater dress. Okay. And then the men's pants, they also had similar [design]. And then I remember you telling us- tell us about some of the other types of belts that you then started [producing]. NB: Well that one, when I saturated that, there was only one other way to go: that was a retail market. Which had- which encompassed new machinery, because we were making finer belts and growing that. So it was a great adventure, actually, because-- it was exciting. GE: And quite a challenge. NB: Always a challenge. GE: Right. So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? NB: Right. GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately. NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or-- GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. NB: Whoever we made it for. GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct? NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... GE: Okay. So let's see: you were in business. Tell us about -- you and your brother started, this was around 1951. And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? NB: The 90s, the late 90s. GE: Oh that was already that late? NB: '91, '92. GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the '90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell -- it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea. GE: When did you finally sell? NB: '93. GE: Okay. So once it began in the '90s, it really got hurt. Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn't get it on tape. NB: David Crystal. I don't even remember the names anymore. GE: Evan Picone. SC: John Meyer of Norwich. NB: Well you're just repeating what I said. GE: But we didn't have it on the tape. NB: Oh, I see. GE: Once the company -- once a manufacturer -- let you break in, let you start making their belts, then did they stay with you? NB: They stayed with me. College Town -- did you ever hear of College Town? Slacks, sportswear, Panther. I used to get orders like two hundred thousand at a time. GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak? NB: At the height, 200. GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of? NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn't need as many operators. GE: Because the machinery--? NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery -- to make billions, but to no avail. I took a trip to Taiwan, and saw how they worked, and I knew I really had to get out because those girls were working- my girls, with their fringes, at that time were making twelve dollars an hour, and these girls were making not even twelve dollars a week. GE: So even as you were having fewer and fewer employees, it's still you could not- the labor cost was so [expensive]. NB: And you couldn't match it for another reason too: since the manufacturer was doing everything there, the Chinese were doing everything there for them -- with belts, too! GE: So even the shipping, you would have shipping and transportation costs. NB: It was a lost cause. They needed us -- our manufacturers needed us because they wanted to have somebody to make samples for them. But we were just being used for a while, 'til we realized, you know, they would throw business our way, but not the 200,000 quantity orders anymore. So, it was sad. I love that business. It was so... to me, it was like watching something grow that I built and then have it torn down. GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things -- how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right. GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. NB: And I even grew bigger than the guy in Wilkes-Barre -- and they were mafia connected. GE: Did they ever give you any trouble, that when you left them and you started...? NB: [No.] GE: Okay, that's good. I remember you telling us last time about some of the challenges, the unique challenges it was, going from being where you're making for manufacturers versus now. What were the new things you had to learn and had to excel at and had to begin to do when you started going to retail? You know, how is that a new challenge? [phone interrupts interview] GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you? NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners -- what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that's all. It's just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we'd have to start from scratch all over again. GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers -- it's constantly a new market. NB: My trick was, when I dealt with manufacturers, I had to deal with trimming and purchases. Well I would get into their heads, I would become friendly, they would become my family. When I came to town, and I'd listen to all their troubles, and they were my friends. So I kept a customer that I liked, but I also kept up my quality and everything. GE: So it was very much quality, right price, and relationship. And it sounds like the relationship was also very important. NB: It is. In today's world, relationships are not that great because people do business with email. Now how do you get to know somebody with an email? You don't. It's tough for people. GE: And they're also just- the businesses seem to be very, very different today when we don't have the same manufacturing that we used to have. You mentioned something that you didn't mention before -- that you were in real estate. Was that after the [business]? Did you say something about building homes or not? SC: No, that was the kickbacks. That was just a metaphor. GE: Okay. I think in terms of the business, that was a pretty good- you know, you gave us a pretty good [description]. I think we got most of the information. So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? 'Cause that was another big part of your life. NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. GE: That'd be great. NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. On Marilyn's second trip to Israel -- it was a three week trip, three weeks on a bus with Jewish women! And I became the mechanic to fix all the cameras and help them. And became friendly . . . it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. But I also found out what we as Jews owe to other Jews, especially with the loss of six million. And I became very serious about that whole thing. And I felt that if there were 10 million Jews in the United States -- or in the world, in the world at that time -- we owed for six million lost souls, and we have a responsibility. And people used to cross the street when they saw me because I was-- And anyway, I started out in working for the UJA office here as a volunteer after that trip. But I was always a little bit involved before we went with Hadassah. Whatever I did was very minimal, but what really helped also was the fact that my business was doing better, and I could be more philanthropic. Not that people that have good businesses are philanthropic, but it was just me that felt that way because of Marilyn's tutelage. And I worked on the campaign, I solicited people. And that became like a challenge for me too, like the belt business. It was- I've got to be the best, I've got to be the best at it. So in a short period of time, I became a regional chairman for UJA. And then I was asked to go on the national board, and that was such a fantastic feeling because there were probably... it must have been 14 or 15 of us that all thought the same way about the Jewish cause. And I stayed on it until the '80s. When my business was going, I couldn't maintain the gifts I was making. It's still a part of my life that was just a magnificent feeling, magnificent. There is -- and I'm not being melodramatic saying [this] -- that giving is such a high. Helping someone else is such a high. It's one of the highest things. It's better than getting. GE: In many ways, I think much better than getting. I remember last time, if you want to share with us a little bit: the influence of your father-in-law and uncle in regards to all this. NB: What story should I end it on? Your Uncle Bernie? Uncle Bernie was my father-in-law's brother. MB: Who was seven years younger. NB: He was really the philanthropic leader of the UJA. And when I started to get involved, he came and gave me a lecture and he said, "Now look, Nate, I don't want you to embarrass me." MB: What about the [inaudible]? NB: You want me to tell the story? We bought a second home. And Bernie and naturally my father-in-law, Victor, they all came to see the house, and pass judgment on it, and all that stuff. And I was the first one in the family that had a second home. So it caused a lot of rift. "How did Nate do this?" Blah blah blah and all that stuff. And one day, during the fall, I get a call from Uncle Bernie to come down to their office. I come down, and he sits me down, he says, "You know, the first thing you have to do is take care of Jews. And what you did, you went out and bought a second home before you're doing anything for the Jewish people." And he starts lecturing me, and I said, "You're out of line. You have no right to talk to me this way. Absolutely not. First of all, my father-in-law was sitting over there. If he wants to say something about what I do with my money, he can. But you can't. I'm not going to listen to what you're saying." And I said, "I will do for Jews my way and you won't be embarrassed." GE: And you always maintained a very nice relationship. NB: What? GE: He was satisfied. You and Bernie and of course your father-in-law, you always maintained a very good relationship. NB: Of course. In fact, he was very proud -- and also worried. He'd given away everything. But he's very proud. When he was old and sick, he came to live with us. First of all, Marilyn was his shining star. I can still hear him calling Marilyn, right now in my mind -- when he needed help. MB: Did you say anything about my brother? NB: No. MB: My brother died when he was 70, so. GE: When he was 70, when he was- when your brother was 70? MB: Yeah. GE: He died the day after my father-in-law. MB: Yeah. We had two caskets in the sanctuary. And a lot of people didn't know about my brother. They were coming to see my father. SC: I think Nate answered both of those questions, so that's fine. Thank you. Interview with Marilyn Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born? MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 -- 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. I'm supposed to talk about my life? SC: Yes. Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters -- your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born? MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I'm not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. They had their own little house on Grant Street, which is in the sixth ward of the community. My father was just five or six, so he started school and he never really- he never spoke with an accent because he went to school as a young child. But when he was old enough to go to work, he and my grandfather went out on their horse and buggy to pick up scrap wherever -- you know, they went into the country, into Lehighton and Palmerton and all those little towns around here. And that's how he made a living until he bought a building and became much more involved in the business. The business grew, and he had all the Syrian neighbors -- they were all Christian Syrians -- and they also were what we called junkmen. And they used to bring all their stuff to my grandfather. And there were three brothers in the family. My father was Victor, and Bernie, and Sam. And then there were seven girls, so there were nine siblings all together. So what fun it was to go to my grandmother's house every Sunday and be with this family. My grandmother made her tuna fish -- tuna fish! I don't know how this Russian-Polish lady learned to make tuna fish salad but that's what she made. And my aunts, you want all my aunts names? I don't wanna do it. But there were seven, seven and three -- no, six and three. Nine, nine children. Okay, that was my paternal [family]. My maternal grandparents were Chaim and Sarah Greenberg. My grandmother's maiden name was Epstein. And they were born in Poland, too. I don't know how they got to London- I mean England, or why they went to England. They met in England. They got married and they had five children in England, my mother being the youngest at that time. She was a few months old. They came to this country, then, in 1902. My grandfather was a schneider [Yiddish for tailor], he was a tailor. So he- they came to Allentown because my grandmother's sister -- sister's husband was the rabbi in Allentown. So that's why they came to Allentown. There are ten siblings in my mother's family. My mother is Anna, my grandmother was Sarah -- I told you that -- and my grandfather was Chaim. And he had a tailor shop in the front of the house where they lived on Second Street between Turner and Linden. In there. And the front of the house, the living room, was his shop. And that's what he did. He was a tailor. And they lived, I don't know for how many years they lived there, but I know my mother worked -- went to work, I think she was a teenager. I don't remember exactly how it all occurred, but she worked at the Grammes Company. I don't know if it's still in business in Allentown. She worked an addressograph. Anyway, my father and mother were married in 1924, by Rabbi Krevsky, who was the rabbi in Allentown. It used to be called the Sixth Street Shul, [Yiddish for synagogue] because that's where the synagogue was for the congregation, the Sons of Israel, which is now on Twenty-seventh and Tilghman. My grandfather, my father's father, was very involved with Agudas Achim, which was Orthodox synagogue, and he would live within walking distance of the shul. So he was there every day and that was where he belonged to. My other grandfather belonged to a shul five doors away, called-- It will come to me. But anyway, they used to call it the Bolsheviki-y shul. My grandfather must have been a Bolsheviki, I don't know. Everyone looked down on that shul. So we used to go from one shul to the other, and everybody used to hang out in front of the shul. And there was always arguments for who was going to-- What is it at the end, where they- where you buy the right to--? I forget. So there was always a fight: Who was going to buy the right to say, I don't remember which it was. Anyway, sometimes cops had to come to break it up, it got so violent. They don't do those things anymore. They were a real bunch. And on that street was also two Kosher butchers and a Kosher store to buy fish and things. So it was a little community service there, for the Jewish community. It was a very nice, pleasant place to be. Yeah. And anyway, that's it. SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life -- what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate. MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen -- there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school -- Muhlenberg, which is still in existence -- and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. Anyway, I didn't have really any Jewish friends until junior high school. I did go to the Jewish Community Center -- Daycare Center. I loved it, loved it, because my people were there and I felt included. That was- that's a nice camp and it still exists. It was wonderful. And I spent a lot of time at the JCC every Sunday where everybody used to come in and take a trolley downtown. And we had a jukebox there and we all danced. We danced the jitterbug, I guess that's what that was in the 1940s. So that was- it was a lot of fun. And we formed the Young Judaea Club for the girls. So we used to come down one night a week and meet Young Judea and we picked a certain night because the Boy Scouts met that night, so we had everything figured out. Anyway, those were my junior high school years. Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don't quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don't remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. He made dresses like many people did here. So anyway, I met Nate at the Superior Restaurant, and it was right before my sweet sixteen party. So of course I invited him to my sweet sixteen party, and I never went out with anybody else after that. My father was not happy about that, but he thought I was too young. Nate was nineteen, I was sixteen. He said, "He's too old for you!" So nobody listened to my father. He thought we did. And when Nate graduated, he went to Lafayette College for two years. I decided that -- and my father was in full agreement, which he shouldn't have been -- and since I was so in love with this guy, why should I go to college? So I didn't. I went to a business school in Bethlehem, and I went there for two years, so that's what I did. I went to be a secretary. So anyway, Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples -- and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. Anyway, after- we had Cherie, after when I had Laurie, we moved into a house on 23rd and Washington up the street from the Center. It was in the- Was the Center built then? I don't think... No, the center was not built then. The center was built in 1957. But anyway, it was a wonderful place to live because all you had to do was like roll down the hill and you were there. So our lives were wrapped around the Center. Then I tell you -- through the years, I was active. I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends -- we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to -- and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. And Mrs. Leonard, who was the founder of Hadassah -- Allentown Hadassah-- Do you want me to stop? [interview is interrupted] SC: Well, maybe we should just move to- Well your work at Hadassah and then I'll ask you, what made you feel the most creative and what you valued most in life. Most creative and Hadassah is what you said last time, so maybe just move through what you did in Hadassah and I'll ask you the other one. MB: Anyway, where was I? I was very involved with Hadassah. I did a lot of things -- I collected blue boxes, I went door to door day to get puskas [Yiddish--charity box used to collect doinations] and everyone was very pleasant, and that was one of the jobs, one of the important jobs . . . try to find somebody to do that today. So I stayed with Hadassah, I got on the board, and did many, many jobs. It was like stepping up and training me to be- I never expected to be asked to be president. And my best friend said, when they had the nomination committee meeting, that I wouldn't take it if they asked me, they were sure I would say no. So... I said yes. And that was 1970, it's a two year term, to 1972. That was my year, the year that I made my first trip to Israel. They were dedicating or rededicating the building on Mount Scopus. That was in no man's land during the war. The Arabs were here, the Israelis were here. This was- this territory in between belonged to no one.But they tried to use the hospital and they had patients there and doctors used to come in, convoys up Mount Scopus to take care of the patients. But, I don't know what year it was, but they were- when Israel declared themselves a state, the Arabs murdered everyone in that convoy, all these doctors and patients, as they were going up to Mount Scopus. And the English did nothing, they just stood by and watched. Anyway, they knew they had to build another hospital within the boundaries of Jewish Palestine. In the meantime, their work was done in another hospital and I don't remember. But anyway, the new hospital was built in Ein Kerem, which is in Western Jerusalem. There was no contest about building a hospital there. I don't remember when it was finished, but I know I went a couple of years later, and I remember Muriel and Phil Berman putting the mezuzah on the door. They were extremely active and they- one of the nursing hospitals was one that they gave the money for. They were wonderful. And Muriel used to come back from all these trips and we had Board meetings and tell us what happened. Was really so thrilling to hear it from the first person like that. And I said to her, then, "Muriel, I want to be able to do that someday." That didn't happen, but we were very happy to be big contributors to Hadassah. Nate loved it. I took him, I dragged him along on my second trip with George and Mina Finkelstein. And George's suitcase never came. George must have been [unclear], and he was wearing [Nate's] clothes until his luggage came. Kind of funny. Anyway, they were wonderful to be with because they had lived in Jerusalem for many years. In fact, Arnon says that he's a Palestinian. He was born there. Anyway, we- Nate became so involved with the philanthropics of Hadassah, that he got caught up in it and he became involved with -- what was it called? It was called UJA, it was not called Federation -- United Jewish Appeal. So he started as a solicitor, I think, and worked his way up into the Presidency and Chairman of the Campaign. And we used to go to the big meetings in New York where everybody came to announce their pledges. So we used to go there and they would stand up and announce his pledge. And a lot of times I -- I'm falling through the table! Anyway, that was his love and there was nothing I could do to tell him that you're doing too much. He never felt he gave enough. So he loved it, and he felt he made a lot of Jews that weren't Jews before. And one of his jobs being on the National Board was to travel with-- NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: You're telling my story. MB: Are you supposed to tell your story? GAIL EISENBERG: Yes, we'll let him tell his story. SC: You know, the last time we asked what made you feel the most creative and what you valued so much, you talked about what Hadassah meant to you. Can you talk a little bit about that? MB: Hadassah meant everything to me. My best friends were also involved with Hadassah and we worked together on projects. We used to sit and cut out invitations, we cooked in the kitchen. It was very close to my heart, and I loved being able to contribute to Hadassah. GE: You know what, may I bring the picture- you have a picture of the women presidents. I'm going to bring it, okay? Because that was also- you just shared with us a little bit, who these different presidents were. MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? MB: This is Mrs. Leonard. GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that's fine. GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey MB: Mina was dynamic. Mina, and of course, Muriel Berman. She was great. And Nettie Klass lived across the street from the Center. It's a good thing she did because one night she saw flames coming out of the building. Yeah, somebody set fire to it. I don't know. The office was destroyed and the lobby. I don't know how long it took to fix it. I don't know if they ever caught the people who did it. But thank God, Nettie lived across the street! And we used to spend a lot of time with Netty, because she knew everything about Hadassah -- who was coming, who was going, who was moving. So we used to laugh, and we used to say, "Somebody's sitting under this table and listening to all of this." We used to gossip . . . terrible. But we had fun with Nettie, Netty was wonderful. And Edie was- she brought youth to Hadassah. NB: The Board. To the Board. MB: Oh, she's the one who brought me to the board, is that what you said? I don't know. But it was Edie and then it was Rhoda and Joyce, who moved here. Joyce was from Philadelphia. NB: Joyce was a younger woman. She was the first of the younger women, Edie. MB: And Joyce was from Philadelphia. She went to school with Wilt the Stilt. He was in her class. She's very, very bright. Anyway, her husband was a lawyer. After he graduated law school, they moved to Orlando, Florida, but didn't stay too long. And luckily they came to Allentown. She was a delight, really energetic. She brought all kinds of ideas to us, we were doing all kinds of stuff, everything was so original. Every dance, every dance we had was very special. She just made us work. We worked a lot. And her poor husband, Harry, if we had a board meeting at her house and it was snow on the pavement, she called him up at his office and said, "Harry, you come home, you gotta shovel the snow." Harry was so good. Anyway, they moved to New York, and by that time, Harry had had cancer, prostate cancer. And we lost him, so Joyce lived alone in New York and was very involved with Hadassah. She would have been, I'm sure, national president if she didn't have to work. She moved -- she sold the condo on 57th Street near Bloomingdale's and moved to Florida. That's where Joyce is today. And Joyce is so beautiful and so smart. We thought in five years she's going to be married. She's still single -- she's in her late 70s already. So I guess she's not going to get [married]. But anyway, she still loves Hadassah. SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn't really [Hadassah] -- that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us. NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. MB: It was nice being involved with Hadassah because it was something I could share with Nate. NB: Can I interject something? SC: Sure. NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. SC: It's the story of the United States, too. Things have changed, where women . . . NB: There's a dichotomy to this: Hadassah and Allentown is very, very weak. But the Women's Jewish Federation division is stronger than the men's division. And that's where the impetus of giving and where it's smart to belong has grown, and I can live in it. SC: And is the Federation men and women? NB: The men are set up to take -- a backwards step. I mean, I was very involved here in Allentown. Anyway finish with Marilyn, I shouldn't be doing this now. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). 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Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015
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Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.
Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.
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LVTNT-30
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2015-12-12
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Leonard Bloch
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-31.xml
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5.4 July 25, 2011 Leonard and Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011 LVTNT-31 1:59:56 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Leonard Bloch Beverley Bloch Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BlochLeonard_Beverley_20110725 1.0:|25(4)|48(9)|73(7)|92(3)|109(7)|128(4)|159(5)|184(8)|199(16)|218(5)|247(11)|264(11)|281(3)|300(7)|313(13)|330(14)|357(3)|370(12)|385(14)|402(2)|429(10)|448(4)|475(11)|494(13)|511(6)|536(6)|555(10)|574(8)|599(6)|616(9)|631(15)|650(6)|665(13)|682(7)|711(17)|736(17)|751(15)|768(17)|783(11)|806(10)|827(8)|844(3)|865(6)|886(8)|905(14)|922(12)|941(13)|962(5)|981(4)|996(10)|1029(11)|1056(4)|1085(6)|1106(5)|1127(8)|1156(3)|1185(3)|1204(15)|1219(9)|1240(11)|1261(3)|1276(16)|1303(10)|1328(10)|1353(13)|1382(8)|1397(15)|1414(3)|1451(8)|1486(6)|1501(3)|1520(17)|1539(10)|1570(7)|1599(5)|1614(3)|1647(8)|1666(9)|1685(5)|1702(4)|1739(16)|1758(11)|1779(7)|1808(13)|1835(13)|1856(6)|1877(8)|1902(3)|1925(8)|1948(11)|1969(13)|2000(5)|2025(12)|2054(2)|2083(5)|2114(5)|2139(2)|2158(5)|2179(6)|2198(5)|2219(14)|2242(5)|2265(15)|2286(13)|2311(10)|2338(4)|2361(13)|2382(13)|2405(4)|2428(12)|2451(14)|2476(14)|2499(5)|2522(13)|2543(14)|2570(13)|2597(12)|2620(12)|2643(5)|2666(17) 0 https://youtu.be/42fll13b1xU YouTube video 10 Early Family History SC: Today is July 25, 2011, an interview- attending is Gail Eisenberg and Susan Clemens-Bruder. Hi. First of all, I would like to put you into context. And so if you could give your full name and your birth date?
 ; 
 ; LB: Leonard Bloch, January 29, 1935.
 ; 
 ; SC: Where were you born, and where did you live in your early life?
 ; 
 ; LB: I was born in Wilmington, DE. Lived there at the most two years, I’m not sure the exact [time], and then my parents moved back to Allentown and I’ve lived here ever since. 0 269 Father's Business GE: What did your father do for a living?
 ; 
 ; LB: My father worked for Sears Roebuck. He was the manager of the furniture department with Sears Roebuck. Sears was located on 7th Street at that time between Linden and Turner, and then they decided to build a new store which was located on 7th Street between Tilghman and Allen. During that period of time, they transferred my father to their Wilmington, DE store for about a two or three year period, and after that, he came back to Allentown, and he started in the garment business in approximately 1944-1945. 0 381 Leonard's Start in the Business SC: So — and we’ll come back to all that — but tell me a little bit more about you, as far as what was your educational background and how did you become involved in a business, and where did you work, actually, all your life? Did you have little jobs when you were young and then move into the garment industry?
 ; 
 ; LB: How young?
 ; 
 ; SC: As young as you can be. Paperboy?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, I was never a paperboy. During the war, I used to, on the weekend, go around with my wagon and collect. At that time there was always a drive for some scrap metal, old rubber tires, and drippings from fats was used for munitions, and I would collect that and then sell it. Gas stations had places where you could buy that. I guess I was meant for the garment industry because we lived at 630 N. 23rd Street, had a nice front porch, and I invited all my friends on the porch, and I had little looms, and they made potholders. 0 612 Ideas of Early Businesses LB: So they were going to go into some business. And their first thought was a luncheonette. Well first, actually their first thought they were thinking of the potato chip business, manufacturing potato chips.
 ; 
 ; GE: Her, her- Interesting, her husband's family is Charles Chips.
 ; 
 ; LB: Oh, really.
 ; 
 ; GE: Yeah, her ex-husband’s.
 ; 
 ; SC: So they were thinking about that. And that was a perfect time to do it if you could get the oil.
 ; 
 ; LB: They looked into the potato chip business, and they were all set to do that, and then they discovered that you don't get a pound of potato chips from a pound of potatoes when the water comes out it's a big difference, so it wasn't quite the gold mine that it appeared to be at first. So they rented one of these small apartments, and they were going to put a luncheonette there. 0 866 Business Operations SC: Can you talk a little bit now about the business? What were the operations, what- how- how did you set it up, or your father set it up and you continue it?
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, as I said, my dad was not really a garment man, so he made polo shirts, and he really wasn't interested in making other types of garments. The polo shirt market was not one that I saw a future in even in the early 1950s. At that time, rather than things being manufactured in other countries, there was a migration to the South. There was a lot of clothing being made in the South. So I started looking at other types of clothing to make, and my dad always told me that if you go to work every day and you’re there in the morning, whatever you do, if you make a mistake or whatever you do, we’ll work it out, don't worry about it. Just be on time and we won't worry about mistakes, and he was always true to that. I did some crazy things. Most of them worked out. 0 1560 Competition in the Area GE: But while you were doing this, were there many other bouffant manufacturers in the area, or were you primarily the only one?
 ; 
 ; LB: There were a few others around, but... they had a lot of trouble.
 ; 
 ; GE: They didn't have some of these innovative ideas.
 ; 
 ; LB: If you can just imagine a seamstress getting starch in her eyes is- is a significant thing. The goggles that I got prevented a lot of it, but I also had an arrangement with a local physician where- when they got impacted, I would have them taken up to the doctor's office, they would clean out their eyes, and it had just gone in so it would just be in the corners. It was fine. 0 1713 More About the Business SC: So I have a couple of questions. First of all, in the ‘60s, what happened with the bouffant business and was polo generic polo shirts, or was it for Polo?
 ; 
 ; LB: T-shirt — no, it was not for Polo. 
 ; 
 ; SC: So the idea of generic polo, because Polo then had the name.
 ; 
 ; LB: Today, polo shirts are called t-shirts, and it’s one of the biggest items, but it’s very difficult to find a store that carries American made t-shirts. They are all made off-shore. And that was something that was actually- you could forecast was going to happen. Following WWII, the world was flat, and they needed industry, and there is no more exportable industry, at least as I read the tea leaves, then the garment industry. 0 2181 Unions SC: When the business started, did your father embrace the union right away, and was this something that you were committed to, to having the union in your operations?
 ; 
 ; LB: My dad did embrace the union very early on, and I was committed to it, absolutely. 0 2245 Business Anecdotes SC: So do you have any anecdotes about or stories that you remember about your years in the business? Anything that just strikes you — funny, sad, interesting?
 ; 
 ; LB: I made mention a few moments ago about sliding the cartons down the outdoor fire escape. Well, the first time that I did that, it was for a local company called Movie Star. Actually, it was a New York company, but they had a plant in Allentown, a shipping point in Allentown. And before I had the chute made, we actually just went out the fire escape door and dropped the boxes down one at a time. Well, the first time I did this, the truck driver thought we were crazy. He came running upstairs to use the telephone and called his boss, a man named Charlie Halperin [?]. And Charlie heard this, “He’s throwing your bouffants out the window!” 0 2425 Business Skills and Practices SC: What skills did you have? How did you divide the skills, for instance, there is the floor person, floor lady, and were all the workers women?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, I had — well, I had a cutting department, and the cutters were, the cutter was always a man. The shipper, the shipping clerk. In those days, you wouldn’t think of a female shipping clerk. So- and I had a mechanic, had a very good mechanic was one of the keys to being successful with some of these different things because a mechanic not only fixed machines and keep them running and sewing machines can constantly break, and if you skip a stitch, it’s a second, it has to be repaired ; but he could make attachments. 0 3055 Real Estate Owner LB: No. No. First I just bought, we just bought a couple of buildings, and then I actually built a few buildings. The largest one was in Allentown, 48 apartments.
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, where? Which? I mean, is it just- is it a complex?
 ; 
 ; LB: Yeah. Garden Apartments, South Tioga Street.
 ; 
 ; GE: Okay. I don’t know…is that South Allentown?
 ; 
 ; SC: That’s South Allentown.
 ; 
 ; LB: And I had some in Emmaus. You might know — we owned at one point the Powder Mill Apartments back on Furnace Street. 0 3333 Bloch Children Involvement? GE: Any of your children- Did any of your children get involved either in the real estate part or in the garment, in the textile?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, not really. Our oldest son, Craig, is a pediatrician. Our daughter sold advertising space for a Washington newspaper, and now she is a special education teacher for reading. 0 3465 Flex-time for the Employees SC: This is tape number 3, July 25th, 2011, an interview with Leonard Bloch. And can we talk about flex time? When you started flex time before probably anybody did and also how you allowed women to work with their families in mind in other ways?
 ; 
 ; LB: I was able to handle flexible hours. If an employee had an elderly parent or children or whatever the need might be, they did not have to work 7 1/2 continuous hours. That was our...overtime was first over 7 1/2 and then over 7. But they could work, have an extra hour or two for lunch or just work mornings or just work afternoons or a combination of mornings and evenings or just evenings, and it worked out well for them, and it didn’t hurt me. I could- I had their loyalty. If I needed a favor in return, it was no problem. 0 3608 Lehigh Valley Textile Industry GE: No, and then we will talk about a little bit when you were saying in terms of family, as well as your sense . . . how about your sense of the Allentown textile industry, or I shouldn’t say the Allentown, I should say the Lehigh Valley — because there were a lot of contractors, correct?
 ; 
 ; LB: There were. There were several hundred in the Lehigh Valley at one time.
 ; 
 ; GE: Right. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Was there much collaboration among the contractors? Was it very competitive among the contractors? How did all- some of those things…?
 ; 
 ; LB: It was a competitive market. It was competitive for help, seamstresses. It was competitive for getting the work, getting the contracts for- Speaking of contracts, it’s not in the usual context of a contract. 0 3775 Never Joined the Atlantic Apparel Association GE: What about, were you associated with the contractors association? Because we spoke with, we did meet with Arnold Delin.
 ; 
 ; LB: Yes- No, I never joined. 
 ; 
 ; GE: Okay, just wondering. Okay, why? You didn’t feel it was in your interest, or…?
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, obviously, I guess I didn’t feel it was in my interest, which maybe I was right or maybe I was wrong. 0 3876 New York Garment Industry SC: I hope this question isn’t too much of a tangent, but when you go to New York, and you see racks of clothing being wheeled down the street in the garment industry, the garment center of New York City, well how does that fit into the whole picture? And I’m showing my ignorance of not knowing. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, in New York there are also a lot of contractors, and many times there’s the garment district, so if the contracting shop is close to the manufacturer or jobber that they got the work from, they’ll just load it on racks and push them down the street.
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, so it’s just that.
 ; 
 ; LB: Yeah, so it’s just the convenience. 0 3931 Community Involvement/Memories of the Community SC: Could we talk a little bit about your work in the community and in, you know, just in the general community, wherever you have been involved? 
 ; 
 ; GE: Actually, before we get into that, what are your memories of the community? In other words, when you were a child, you can give us a little bit of insight, what was the Allentown community like, and what was the Allentown Jewish community like? Both institutionally, what you know, what institutions were here, where were they, how active were they, what was the size of the community, where did it live, you know things of that nature? 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, I’ve always lived here, and I guess summing up, you could say I always loved my community. And, after Beverley and I were married, we both loved the community. And I was active in the community, as you know. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was President of the School Board for a couple years. I was on the Board of Temple Beth El. I was president of Temple Beth El from 1982-1987. I was president of the Endowment Foundation for about 10-11 years. It started in 1987-1988, whenever my term as president ended. And I was a Trustee at St. Luke’s Hospital for 10 years, from 1982-1991. 0 4457 Memories of the Jewish Community GE: And tell us about your memories of the Jewish community when you were, because you grew up here your whole life, as a child and teen versus a young adult, you know, versus a father in, you know, your 30s and 40s and now as a senior? You know, what have you seen? How has it changed? You know a little bit of that. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well in terms of demographics, the Jewish community has moved in a Western direction like for instance, Temple Beth El used to be at 17th and Hamilton-
 ; 
 ; GE: And I guess when you were younger, it was even 6th or something?
 ; 
 ; LB: I was BarMitzvahed at 12th and Walnut.
 ; 
 ; GE: 12th and Walnut, is that where it started? 12th and Walnut?
 ; 
 ; LB: Yes, that’s where it started. Well, we were married at 19, so as a young person ; and we were dating since we were 16…15? Yeah, 15. 0 4763 Needle Trades in Allentown SC: Do you remember any of the names of in- the needle trades right in Allentown? Maybe that would be something to write down sometime. It would be really-
 ; 
 ; LB: You mean other-
 ; 
 ; SC: Other businesses, yeah. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Schneider Manufacturing. That’s Irwin Schneider. Allentown Manufacturing. That’s George Hirsch. 
 ; 
 ; GE: We have Leonard- Len Manufacturing? Is that what it was called?
 ; 
 ; LB: Leonard. Leonard Manufacturing. 0 4866 Urban Renewal Processes in Allentown SC: I have another tangential question that’s a little self-interested. Do you remember anything about the years when the Urban Renewal Processes were going around- on in Allentown, especially the Little Lehigh Renewal Project that was the most contentious in Allentown? Were you involved with the city or any- any portion of that at that time?
 ; 
 ; LB: No. I remember when they wanted to change Hamilton Street into the Hamilton Mall, and I felt, along with the merchants, that that was a poor direction to go in. The merchants I clearly remember were solidly against changing Hamilton Street to one way and making it narrow. And I think the time has proven that they were right. 0 4968 Giving to the Family GE: But you know, we may want to ask in here in terms of just a little bit, I thought it was actually wonderful what Beverley was saying in terms of what you were able to offer your family education-wise and your wife education-wise. And I think that gets into here.
 ; 
 ; SC: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; GE: And so do you want to just share that with us because it wasn’t on the last tape. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, Beverley certainly didn’t come to work in the factory every day. We were always involved in everything together. We’ve been partners in everything. The factory and the building-
 ; 
 ; GE: Did you say she did come to work?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, she didn’t.
 ; 
 ; GE: She did not, okay. 
 ; 
 ; LB: But, we did things together. 0 5141 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative in Life? SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or creative or given you a sense of completion in life the most?
 ; 
 ; LB: I guess I’ve always valued my extracurricular, if you will, community activities the most. When I started in the garment industry, I made a promise to myself that I was not going just to be involved in business and get lost. And I suppose the experience that I value that I enjoyed the most has been the presidency of Temple Beth El. 0 5218 Beverley Bloch's Family History BB: I’m Beverley Bloch. Beverley Berg Bloch. And my birthdate is August 13th, 1935.
 ; 
 ; SC: And would you then, let's go back in your family a little bit, and then we’ll put you into context with your family. Where- What do you know about your parents? Give me their names, and also where they and perhaps their parents came from as far back as you know. 
 ; 
 ; BB: My father was, may he rest in peace, Joseph Berg. The name actually was Bergada, and he was from Pricin, Hungary, a small community in Hungary. And my mother was, may she rest in peace, Mildred Kleinberg. She was born in this country in a very small coal town called Oliphant, Pennsylvania. 0 5536 Beverley's Education BB: In the coal region. By the time I was 14, and I was the only Jewish kid in my class, I realized that I wanted to meet other Jewish kids. I realized that I would never get a good education. The education in Oliphant, Pennsylvania, the boys went into the mines, the girls went into then sewing plants. There were little sewing plants also in Oliphant. So I said to my parents that I would like very much to get a better education so there was a bus, buses that would start higher up in the coal regions — Carbondale, Jessup — and they would do what they call go “down the line” into Scranton. So when I was fourteen, I went, I registered to a Scranton school, Scranton Central High School, and I would take the bus every morning, approximately probably around 7:00. 0 5658 Meeting Leonard BB: And I got on the bus, and I had a blind date with someone named Leonard Bloch. 
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, my goodness.
 ; 
 ; BB: We met at the Jewish Community Center at 6th and Chew Street, and the rest is history. 
 ; 
 ; SC: Wow.
 ; 
 ; BB: We kept dating. 
 ; 
 ; SC: Long distance dating for a while?
 ; 
 ; BB: Yeah, our wedding songbook said, “Martz Bus Made Money on Bev & ; Her Honey.” And it was true. Martz Bus would carry me to Bethlehem, not to Allentown, and Lenny would meet me in Bethlehem, and we just continued dating. 0 5732 Beverley's Parents' Store SC: To go back to your parents when they started their store, and that was 1931?
 ; 
 ; BB: Probably around then.
 ; 
 ; SC: They started the store, that was a really brave time to start a business in 1931. I mean that was going down to rock bottom by ‘32 to use a cliché. 
 ; 
 ; GE: However, people still had to eat.
 ; 
 ; SC: People had to eat so it was a good, it was a good decision, but also a lot of people had to sign a book rather than give money.
 ; 
 ; BB: Everything my father sold at the store was on the books. 0 5793 Anti-Semitism in School? GE: So given that you were- It was such a small number of Jewish children, and you were saying it was an Orthodox community in a much, in the school, whatever — was it difficult? Were you tormented or in any way?
 ; 
 ; BB: There was a certain amount of anti-Semitism. Basically speaking, no, I was not tormented. I can’t speak for what the boys in the area may have felt. From a girl's point of view, I had many non-Jewish friends, mostly non-Jewish friends. If they would become angry at me, the first remark out of their mouth might be “You dirty Jew.” It might be. Because they were being raised themselves in an environment that was totally anti-Semitic. 0 5943 Beverley's Involvement in the Business SC: Yeah. So if we move forward to when you got married and also how you became involved in the business, even if you didn’t go into the office every day. So if you can talk about how you got in, how you became involved in the business, and how you were involved, even though you didn’t go into work every day?
 ; 
 ; BB: I, actually, having been raised by a mother who was not home, I was truly averse to leaving my children. I almost made a vow that I would not marry anyone who would demand my participation in the business. But of course, Lenny and I discussed everything that he did, he would come home and we would talk. When he would have a jobber come to Allentown, of course it was up to me to be sure to entertain the jobber. 0 6260 Beverley's Community Involvement SC: What have you done in the community? How have you been a part of the Jewish community but also the wider community? 
 ; 
 ; BB: All right, when I was twenty, I went back- excuse me, when my child was twenty, excuse me- when my daughter who went to college, once she was able to go to college, I felt free to pursue my own education, and I went to Cedar Crest. The reason I went back to college was when she was about eight or nine, I started working as a volunteer at the Crippled Childrens Society. And I felt a real sense of a vocation for me. I liked working with people ; I liked helping people. And having raised this child and not having the ability to have a social worker help us — in 1958, there was no such thing as a social worker in the hospitals to send you home with a child who was going to profoundly need tremendous care. And your other children, when they would be involved in what had happened to the family — there was no such thing. So I saw my bent in life, I would become a social worker. So, it took me ten years. In the interim, I was active with Hadassah ; I was on the board of Hadassah. I was on the Board of the Temple, and when Rance Block was president, I became the social secretary- I don’t know what they called it. 0 6505 Did the Jewish Community Change in Allentown? SC: Did you, in those years, how did Allentown and the Jewish community and also in the wider community change?
 ; 
 ; BB: Well, as Lenny mentioned, the demographics of the community changed tremendously. When we bought our first home on Marshall Street, it was the end of the city. That was the end of the city. And then, of course, we saw the city move so much further west. And in terms of people who live here, it changed from a community of perhaps the entrepreneurs to professional men, mostly, as Lenny mentioned, medical. And so we saw that. 0 6782 Beverley Bloch's Perspective on Younger Generation Community Involvement SC: And is this the next generation or are these- Are the people that are involved now the people that have come in from other areas? Have you lost people that are, perhaps your children or your friends’ children, to go work in other places and live other places?
 ; 
 ; BB: Well, our children do not, unfortunately, live [here]. Our oldest son lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with his wife. I don’t think he’s- he does belong to a Chabad, but interestingly enough, he is married to a Baptist. 
 ; 
 ; SC: It’s the new generation.
 ; 
 ; BB: A new generation, yes. 0 6951 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: So, what do you value in life most?
 ; 
 ; BB: My family. My family, my culture, my Judaism, very much my Judaism. The years when we were raising our daughter, without my faith, I don’t think I would have gotten through easily. And Israel. We value Israel, we worry about Israel, and we worry, I think, about Judaism in general, and, you know, where is- where is our country going, in general. 0 7108 What Makes You Feel the Most Creative? SC: What makes you feel the most creative?
 ; 
 ; BB: Creative? That’s a very difficult question. Creative. I like to make mandel bread for my family, that’s my specialty, making mandel bread. 
 ; 
 ; GE: That’s like a- like biscotti?
 ; 
 ; BB: Biscotti, it’s a Jewish biscotti, and whenever I have to take something to a friend-
 ; 
 ; GE: I’ll have to give you a call to get the recipe. 
 ; 
 ; BB: Mine is a basic simple recipe, and everybody seems to love it. So that makes me feel very good to be able to do something like that. Creativity, I am not a musician of any sort. My chanting, my chanting makes me feel very creative.
 ; 
 ; SC: Yes, metaphoric sense of creativity. 0 MovingImage Leonard Bloch talks about his father’s reluctant start in the needle-trade business. A few years after Lenny’s father started the business, Lenny’s mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. As a result, rather than go to college, Lenny joined the business after he graduated from high school and quickly discovered he both enjoyed and had an affinity for managing the business.
 ; 
 ; Beverly Bloch talks about the challenge of growing up in Oliphant, PA in a home where her mom worked long hours in their “mom and pop” grocery store. Growing up without her own mother at home, Beverly was determined to be a stay-at-home mother to her children.
 ; Interview with Leonard Bloch, July 25, 2011 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today- LEONARD BLOCH: Is it all right if Beverley joins us? GAIL EISENBERG: Please. SC: Today is July 25, 2011, an interview- attending is Gail Eisenberg and Susan Clemens-Bruder. Hi. First of all, I would like to put you into context. And so if you could give your full name and your birth date? LB: Leonard Bloch, January 29, 1935. SC: Where were you born, and where did you live in your early life? LB: I was born in Wilmington, DE. Lived there at the most two years, I'm not sure the exact [time], and then my parents moved back to Allentown and I've lived here ever since. SC: And also, what is your family background? What- what- Where did your parents come from and what kind of education did they have? LB: My parents were both born in the United States, my mother in Coplay and lived in Allentown, and my dad is from Wilkes-Barre, PA. Both high school graduates. GE: How about their parents? LB: My father's family is from Germany, and I believe my mother's family is from Germany, as well. GE: And- And they were first generation? In other words, your parents- Do you know anything about when your parents, actually your grandparents came to America? Or what was the situation? LB: I don't know the dates. GE: Where did they settle? Did they live in which communities? LB: My dad's family settled in Wilkes Barre and always lived in Wilkes Barre. And my mom's family in the Lehigh Valley, as I said, started out in Coplay, which is just about five miles outside of Allentown and then to Allentown. GE: What kinds of careers or business or education did your- well I think you said that your parents were high school graduates. LB: Yes. GE: But what kinds of enterprise or business or jobs did they have? LB: My mother did not work, she was a housewife. Although prior to getting married, she was actually a coat buyer for Dobnoffs Store. SC: For the future, can you explain what Dobnoffs was? LB: Dobnoffs was a women's fine clothing store. SC: And where was it located? LB: In Allentown on Hamilton Street, I think between 6th & ; 7th. SC: And as far as your parents were concerned, did they actually come - did they come to Allentown at a specific time? LB: No. Well, my mother always- SC: She always lived in Coplay, but did they come to Allentown at a specific time and locate in Allentown proper, somewhere in Allentown? LB: I don't know what that date might have been. As I said, they initially settled right outside of Allentown and then moved into the city. GE: What did her parents do for a living? Your mother's parents. LB: Hm. Not really sure. I think they had a small dry goods store. My mother's father passed away quite young. I'm not sure just what age. And her mother lived close to 80. GE: What did your father do for a living? LB: My father worked for Sears Roebuck. He was the manager of the furniture department with Sears Roebuck. Sears was located on 7th Street at that time between Linden and Turner, and then they decided to build a new store which was located on 7th Street between Tilghman and Allen. During that period of time, they transferred my father to their Wilmington, DE store for about a two or three year period, and after that, he came back to Allentown, and he started in the garment business in approximately 1944-1945. GE: So he left Sears Roebuck? LB: Yes. He started out in two apartments at 716 and 718 Linden Street. They were two buildings that had three apartments in each building, and he converted the first-floor apartments, by knocking out walls, into a small garment factory. And... GE: So this was during the war, right? LB: Yes, it was just before the end of the war. GE: Right, right. --and what type of apparel? Was he a contractor? LB: It was a contracting shop, yes. And he made polo shirts. SC: And was- The factory was in Allentown? LB: Yes. SC: Did he have any other factories? LB: No. SC: Just the one in Allentown? LB: Yes. SC: So -- and we'll come back to all that -- but tell me a little bit more about you, as far as what was your educational background and how did you become involved in a business, and where did you work, actually, all your life? Did you have little jobs when you were young and then move into the garment industry? LB: How young? SC: As young as you can be. Paperboy? LB: No, I was never a paperboy. During the war, I used to, on the weekend, go around with my wagon and collect. At that time there was always a drive for some scrap metal, old rubber tires, and drippings from fats was used for munitions, and I would collect that and then sell it. Gas stations had places where you could buy that. I guess I was meant for the garment industry because we lived at 630 N. 23rd Street, had a nice front porch, and I invited all my friends on the porch, and I had little looms, and they made potholders. SC: That's great. GE: And you sold the potholders? LB: Yeah, I would put each potholder in a little sandwich bag, and I would go out around the neighborhood. GE: I remember making those potholders at camp. LB: Yeah it was a looping- GE: I know exactly what you're saying. SC: Any other jobs after that before you were an adult and got into a full-time business? LB: Well, when I started, when I was around 15, my mother started teaching me how to do bookkeeping. Payroll and things. My mother died young. She died when she was 47 -- breast cancer. GE: Is that why she taught you? Was she already sick? LB: No, she wasn't, she wasn't. I recall her having small ailments, but I think she wanted some help with it. She actually was very instrumental in encouraging my dad to go into the garment business. My dad was a furniture man, and... GE: So she was a visionary? LB: He really didn't know the garment business. In fact a funny aside -- the reason they were looking for a business, one of the motivating reasons, was because it was around that time in 1944 when Sears Roebuck was considering building another new building which they built out in the Lehigh Valley Mall. At first it was the one across the street from the Lehigh Valley Mall, the Whitehall Mall actually, and they were going to transfer my parents someplace else once again and they- my mother and my dad decided they wanted to stay in the same city. My brother and I, my brother's name is Stanley, Stanley passed away actually just in October of 2010. GE: Was Stanley older then you or younger than you? LB: No, younger. Stanley was 68 when he passed away. So they were going to go into some business. And their first thought was a luncheonette. Well first, actually their first thought they were thinking of the potato chip business, manufacturing potato chips. GE: Her, her- Interesting, her husband's family is Charles Chips. LB: Oh, really. GE: Yeah, her ex-husband's. SC: So they were thinking about that. And that was a perfect time to do it if you could get the oil. LB: They looked into the potato chip business, and they were all set to do that, and then they discovered that you don't get a pound of potato chips from a pound of potatoes when the water comes out it's a big difference, so it wasn't quite the gold mine that it appeared to be at first. So they rented one of these small apartments, and they were going to put a luncheonette there. And it was right around the corner from the Sears Roebuck store. Actually, the new store that they were going to build at that time was at 7th & ; Allen Street. I got ahead of the story a little bit. So they figured my dad's coworkers would walk around the corner and have lunch at the luncheonette. So they rented this apartment to be a luncheonette, and they had actually ordered luncheonette equipment already. Then before it came in before everything was delivered, they started thinking about the contracting business because there were a lot of sewing contracting shops in the area, and they changed their minds. They canceled the soda fountain equipment and luncheonette equipment and got sewing machines instead. So it was kind of a circuitous way to get into the clothing business. In any event, I graduated high school in June of 1952, and I had been planning to go to college, but along about July of 1952, my dad came to me and told me that my mother had breast cancer. And he wanted to spend some time with her, and they would have to go to doctors visits and so on and so forth, so could I go down to the factory and just take care of things, and I knew nothing about it except the bookkeeping, and going in after school, so I knew what a polo shirt looked like. So, of course, I said fine, and all of a sudden overnight, I was the boss of about twelve, thirteen, fourteen people. SC: So- and so you stayed there, and you didn't end up going to college? LB: No I didn't. SC: You went into the business. LB: Yeah, I liked it. My dad really didn't like it. My mom passed away in August of '53, and he continued to need me, and I just stayed. And I can't say, you know, I really always liked it. SC: You didn't have any- Did you have to go into the service at all in those years? LB: No, somehow I missed the service. Beverly and I were married in 1954 in November and missed the draft. Which we weren't unhappy about. SC: Can you talk a little bit now about the business? What were the operations, what- how- how did you set it up, or your father set it up and you continue it? LB: Well, as I said, my dad was not really a garment man, so he made polo shirts, and he really wasn't interested in making other types of garments. The polo shirt market was not one that I saw a future in even in the early 1950s. At that time, rather than things being manufactured in other countries, there was a migration to the South. There was a lot of clothing being made in the South. So I started looking at other types of clothing to make, and my dad always told me that if you go to work every day and you're there in the morning, whatever you do, if you make a mistake or whatever you do, we'll work it out, don't worry about it. Just be on time and we won't worry about mistakes, and he was always true to that. I did some crazy things. Most of them worked out. So one of the first different kinds of garments that I made that was really significantly different in 1955 I started making bouffant petticoats, which is a far cry-- GE: Now tell me what they are? LB: Bouffant petticoats when you have a billowy... GE: Is that when you would have a big formal gown? Oh. LB: No actually. SC: Like a big skirt in the 50s? GE: Oh, they wore these petticoats underneath it. SC: Yeah, yeah. LB: Women wore- this was a big thing. Just an everyday dress, there was a couple and women would wear more than one bouffant to make it very, very billowy. Well to make a dozen polo shirts at that time the minimum wage was with- for sewing machine operators was I think around $.60 an hour, something like that, and we were a union shop -- International Ladies Garment Workers Union. And to make a dozen polo shirts was maybe $.85 just supplying the thread and just make a dozen polo shirts, and if it was open shoulders it was maybe $1.00 a dozen. Everything was in units of twelve or a dozen, and there was just not enough business in that market. So Bouffant petticoats, first Bouffant petticoat I made, priced- we got $3.25 per dozen for making. And it was totally different but somehow I could see there was a future in it. It really wasn't that many more operations. They were like day and night as far as being different, but... For instance, what made them billowy so that they would hold the skirt out was the starch they put into the material but when you go to sew this each ruffle they were made in tiers and as it got longer each strip that you put on was larger than the prior piece and so you had to ruffle it in and you did that by using a shearing blade. Well, as that blade hit the fabric, it would kick out the starch, so that was very abrasive. It was so abrasive that it changed tops for the sewing machine after two or three months because it wore the table down. So you can imagine what it did to women's hands. To protect their hands, I bought calfskin gloves, and that would protect their hands. And they would have to change them daily because they would wear through. They could get starch in their eyes, so I bought plastic goggles, and it looked like a space- a spacesuit. Canvas aprons so it didn't damage their clothing. But with all these work aids, it worked out. Then I devised a system that once a girl ran a ruffle on, there was just a utility person who would take it from them and fold it in half and put it back in their work bin, so it was ready for the next ruffle after they finished putting all the first on. And that kept them sewing more often. GE: Is this -- I'm just curious -- the product I do remember as a little girl something called crinoline? LB: That's it, it was, yes. Crinoline. GE: I'm just wondering, so what your saying is, compared to the polo shirts, there is much more value added, that you were able to get a lot -- you know, given your raw material and given the selling price -- there was a much higher margin, right? LB: Yeah. GE: But obviously it also had a lot more obstacles, this was a more difficult- LB: Yes, for instance, packaging each crinoline, each bouffant had to be rolled up and put a rubber band around it so it wouldn't unroll and then pack either 3 in a box or 6 in a box depending on how billowy or what the style was. And this was a cumbersome job to try to roll this thing up and then try and put a rubber band on it. So I was, one day I was trying to figure out a way -- there has to be an easier way to do this then to struggle with it, because it really was a struggle if you can imagine it. The minimum sweep, sweep on the bottom, was maybe 3 yards that's 100 inches wiry and stiff. So I got an idea and went to a toy store and I bought sand buckets. I cut the bottom out with a can opener. Mounted it on a piece of 1 x 3 wood and mounted that on a table now the packing girl only had to grab it by the top, put it in the large opening at the top, and rubber bands were slid onto the can as it came to the end it just snapped. So the production went from maybe taking 5 minutes to roll up one to be able to do it in 5-6 seconds. GE: Wow! SC: That's what American business was made of. Ingenuity. GE: Honestly, it sounds like you were doing a lot of industrial engineering. LB: Yeah. GE: Did you have anybody else kind of helping you come up with these ideas? LB: No. GE: Your shop was basically you, and then was it about just like 15 sounds like 15 operators? LB: Yes. My dad started hiring more people. Then in 1956--actually maybe '55, I was looking for a larger place, new quarters. And let's see -- Craig was born in '55. We moved into our new quarters in 1956. The new quarters happened to be the two floors above the Lyric Theatre on 6th Street. Now it's- sure, you know, Symphony Hall they call it now. In those days, it was a burlesque house called Lyric Theatre. GE: Oh, wow. SC: There were stories from there. LB: There was no elevator in the building. I had the two floors above the main floor, and those two floors were equivalent. The sewing was on the top floor, which was the third floor and finishing was on the second floor, but because it was over a theatre with high ceilings, it was actually equivalent to a third floor and fourth floor in terms of getting to it. So we were able to put a conveyor on the front stairway to carry the freight in and to carry freight out as well. The Bouffants were, as I said, maybe six in a box, the particular style that I am thinking of, and we would ship them out every day -- maybe some days 200 dozen, that's 400 boxes. You could have someone all day long carrying them down the steps and unwieldy. So the building was right on the corner of the alley. So what I actually did was make a chute from the fire escape because that building had an outdoor fire escape. So I had an aluminum chute fashioned that folded up into 3-foot sections, so we slid them down. So that was another big labor-saving situation that converted something that could have taken a whole day to 400 boxes shooting down in 45 minutes. GE: Wow. Got a lot of labor and time-saving ideas. LB: Yes. GE: Now, at this time, were you still doing polos and bouffant or just the bouffants? LB: There were some polos, yes, but not too many because it was bouffants. Bouffants didn't last forever, though. Bouffants didn't last forever though. SC: No, I was going to ask, what happened to the '60s! GE: But while you were doing this, were there many other bouffant manufacturers in the area, or were you primarily the only one? LB: There were a few others around, but... they had a lot of trouble. GE: They didn't have some of these innovative ideas. LB: If you can just imagine a seamstress getting starch in her eyes is- is a significant thing. The goggles that I got prevented a lot of it, but I also had an arrangement with a local physician where- when they got impacted, I would have them taken up to the doctor's office, they would clean out their eyes, and it had just gone in so it would just be in the corners. It was fine. SC: Did you ever have a problem with other industrial spies coming in to see all your good practices? LB: No. SC: Because it was a small enough operation? LB: Yeah, well now I was up to maybe 50 people operating. And we'll get to it later, I moved -- my dad passed away in 1967, and in 1971 I moved to South Carlisle Street. Beverley and I bought two of those buildings, it was the old Quaker Shoe buildings, and there I was using about- I bought 75,000 feet and I only used maybe 25,000. The rest was leased out to other things. So I sort of got back into the real estate business. GE: Now, when was this? LB: That was in 1971. And I liked the real estate business, so we started buying apartments, and then I started building apartments. So I was really in the Garden Apartment business. GE: Were you still in the manufacturing- still in the garment business? LB: Oh, yea. SC: The Garden Apartment--this building? These buildings? LB: No, no. SC: So I have a couple of questions. First of all, in the '60s, what happened with the bouffant business and was polo generic polo shirts, or was it for Polo? LB: T-shirt -- no, it was not for Polo. SC: So the idea of generic polo, because Polo then had the name. LB: Today, polo shirts are called t-shirts, and it's one of the biggest items, but it's very difficult to find a store that carries American made t-shirts. They are all made off-shore. And that was something that was actually- you could forecast was going to happen. Following WWII, the world was flat, and they needed industry, and there is no more exportable industry, at least as I read the tea leaves, then the garment industry. During those days you could buy a sewing machine, table, and motor for under $1,000 and put a person to work. So whether it be Haiti or Japan at that time or wherever it might be, it was a very exportable industry, and t-tops or polo shirts were a good place to start. So following bouffants, we started making ladies sportswear and children's, as well. Two-piece sets. Knit polo shirt tops with slacks, popular-priced though, and then we went into ladies as well -- but also popular priced. One of the key features of a popular-priced slack, for instance, was an elastic top rather than a tailored top with button closure. And then eventually at the high point between the day shift and the night shift, we had close to 200 people working. SC: When- In these years, when you were doing this, who did you contract with? What contactors and where- what manufactures? LB: Manufacturers. SC: And where were they? LB: Mostly from New York and mostly unbranded. There's- We did a little work for Liz Claiborne, barely enough to mention. We did some for some national brands, Norma Kamali, but very little. The majority of the work was unbranded manufacturers, and these people sold to the volume users like Kmart, JCPenney, Sears. SC: This is tape 2. Today is July 25th, and this is an interview with Leonard Bloch. I didn't say that before. So, you were just going to say you gave out-- LB: I gave out 25-year gold watches, and I must have given out -- I have a plaque on my wall, I still have a little office downtown -- but I gave out close to forty, twenty-five year watches. When I finally, when I closed the plant down in 1990 we were down to about- between 45 and 50 employees left, and I really hung in longer than I should have economically, but a lot of people there that I knew forever and of those 45 to 50 people, somewhere between 25 and 30 of them were there in excess of 25 or 30 years. In many cases, when their daughters would grow up, they would have their daughters come in or even their sons on occasion would work. And we went- I used to take work in, I always wanted to keep the plant busy, and I felt that it was better to take something in that on paper figured out to be break even or even lose a little than to lay off. So actually for years when people worked for me they knew they had a job. We never ran into any unemployment problem whatsoever until the late '80s when I had to lay people off. There was- I took in anything just to keep busy. And it worked out advantageously even when it figured to be a loser. It wasn't all that bad because you're still- your rent costs the same whether you're working or you're not working. GE: Right. LB: And I still talk to a lot of people that worked for us. SC: Did we ask you the name of your company? LB: No. SC: I didn't think we did. LB: It was Leonard Manufacturing. Somehow I guess my parents thought I would be involved in it. SC: It was ordained. GE: Who did-? LB: I should also mention that my brother Stanley, following high school, came to the factory to work for a short period of time, but he never really liked it. I very much felt that he should go to school. He felt that since I didn't, he shouldn't have to, and that was a bone of contention. But in any event, he was in the automobile business, used cars, and never really liked the factory. GE: Did you- did you do your own selling- I don't know if it would be selling but who was really getting the contracts? LB: Me. GE: Okay. So you were really the salesman with the factory, with the manufacturers rather, and you were also the operations person. LB: Right. GE: Wow. SC: A lot of work. LB: I wish there were cell phones in those days, 'cause I remember well driving to New York and en route to New York, stopping at a phone booth maybe two-three times. Or if we went on vacation or just a day trip, stopping and using the phone booth to call. "What's happening? I have certain things scheduled to be shipped that day." SC: When the business started, did your father embrace the union right away, and was this something that you were committed to, to having the union in your operations? LB: My dad did embrace the union very early on, and I was committed to it, absolutely. GE: What was your father's first name? LB: He was known as Jay Sydney. His name was Joseph Sydney, but everyone called him Sydney. He went by the name Sydney. SC: So, as far as him starting with the union, was he actually large enough to have to commit to the union in those early years? LB: Probably not, but he did. SC: So do you have any anecdotes about or stories that you remember about your years in the business? Anything that just strikes you -- funny, sad, interesting? LB: I made mention a few moments ago about sliding the cartons down the outdoor fire escape. Well, the first time that I did that, it was for a local company called Movie Star. Actually, it was a New York company, but they had a plant in Allentown, a shipping point in Allentown. And before I had the chute made, we actually just went out the fire escape door and dropped the boxes down one at a time. Well, the first time I did this, the truck driver thought we were crazy. He came running upstairs to use the telephone and called his boss, a man named Charlie Halperin [?]. And Charlie heard this, "He's throwing your bouffants out the window!" He jumped in his car, this was in 1956 or maybe 1957, somewhere in there. Came running over with every intent of murdering me and just coincidentally Beverley and I had dinner with him last night. We became friends, best friends ever since. He immediately saw, like in geometry, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. But he liked it better when we put the chute there, and his bouffants weren't flying. GE: Now, how was your- Was your father very- Was there any tension in terms of your father letting such a young person kind of take the lead on the business, or did that transition happen easily because he wasn't really enjoying the business anyway? LB: Yeah, it happened pretty easily. GE: And then he was really just appreciative of it. LB: Yeah, if people- if any of the workers tried to go around me, which happened- GE: Especially in the early years, I imagine, when you were younger. LB: There's always a floor lady in the plant who directs the girls, I would direct the floor person. So there was little- but that was quickly-- GE: Abated. SC: What skills did you have? How did you divide the skills, for instance, there is the floor person, floor lady, and were all the workers women? LB: No, I had -- well, I had a cutting department, and the cutters were, the cutter was always a man. The shipper, the shipping clerk. In those days, you wouldn't think of a female shipping clerk. So- and I had a mechanic, had a very good mechanic was one of the keys to being successful with some of these different things because a mechanic not only fixed machines and keep them running and sewing machines can constantly break, and if you skip a stitch, it's a second, it has to be repaired ; but he could make attachments. Like often we made blouses and buffonces. The bottom row of the bouffant I told you was a minimum 3-yard sweep, and they got up to actually- there was one time that we had one bouffant that had a 100-yard sweep on the bottom. 100 yards. And 50 yards was commonplace. Well the bottom tier had to be bound or hemmed and we did this automatically at stop motion so that if the material would run out, or the thread would run out or if anything happened the machine would stop, and there were folders that would guide all these different things in at the same time. So I was fortunate to have a good mechanic that could make all these different attachments. SC: And did he develop them himself, or did he learn from other, you know, from directions? LB: No, he was just innately good. I could show him what I wanted to do... GE: And he could figure out how to- LB: And he could take a-- We had a certain kind of metal, a soft, malleable metal and he would shape it and solder it and do it. SC: In the 19th century, they called that a mechanical genius. It sounds like he was. LB: When these automatic machines, one girl could run six machines at one time, because if something went wrong, it stopped. SC: So your technology increased from the '50s to the '90s, the sophistication? LB: Well that was just in the Bouffants. SC: Just in the Bouffants, yeah. LB: In the blouse industry, there wasn't automatic. There were plenty of attachments and things to do, and I always looked for niche garments, something that would be difficult for someone to make. If I could make something that had some kind of difficult twist to it, there wouldn't be competition for maybe a six-month period or something like that. And that was enough time to pay for the investment, and then whatever happened would happen. SC: So, the sewers--so there was the shipping department, there was the mechanic and- LB: The cutting department. SC: The cutting department, which is- is really an amazing skill. And then from there were the workers actually divided up into specific skills or did somebody make a whole blouse or-? LB: Nobody made a whole anything. It was all- Like there were sleevers. First thing on a shirt, you would close the shoulders. And then sometimes, like in a blouse, maybe the collars would be in a separate little bundle with a bundle number on it so that bundle #1 went with collars #1 and someone could be working on the collars while the shoulders were being closed, for instance ; and then same thing with collar setters, sleeve setters and hemmers. GE: So, in terms of let's say the labor force that you had, you had men -- you had somebody as a mechanic, a cutter, a shipper -- and were- and women were, of course, the sewing operators. And were there other types of jobs? Oh, pressers. LB: Finishing. GE: Yeah, pressers okay, and that would also be women. Correct? LB: Correct. But I had an automatic pressing system for our type of clothing, did an adequate job. If you get into more expensive blouses they have to be hand-pressed, and certain things did need hand pressing but I had a steam tunnel so when clothing was shipped out on hangers, which was the case 90% of the time, once they were trimmed, loose threads taken off and so on, they were put on a hanger and they went on a conveyor worm, and it took it through a steam tunnel. It would be steamed, blow through it and get all the wrinkles out, and it would continue to an automatic bagging machine, like your dry cleaning bags, and the same kind of rack except there were arms on it, and it grabs the polyethylene, pulls it down, seals it, cut it off. GE: Got it ready. LB: So that was a big thing if you can just visualize ladies standing, pressing as opposed to going through the tunnel. SC: And I think- you had said about the cutters. Were the cutters using a pattern and then hand cutting or was that mechanized too so that a form would be created in the machinery and then cut tons and tons of--? LB: First thing, something called a marker was created. First, you have to have a pattern. You didn't make the patterns. The manufacturers made their own patterns ; they knew what their design was going to be. In many cases, they made their own markers as well although we had the capacity to make markers, but I preferred that they make their own markers so that if they feel that there should be 5 yards to a dozen- if they make a marker and they find it is taking 5-1/4 yards, they knew upfront-- GE: How much fabric-- LB: So then the cloth was put on a spreading machine, and I had an automatic spreading machine for large orders where you could just put a bolt of cloth on it, and it would go back and forth by itself and stop if there was a flaw in the material so it could be cut out. But in any event, the cloth had to be spread out on- spreading on the table, and you could go up depending- blouse material was usually like 55-60" wide and it was called "open", usually woven fabric as opposed to t-tops were made out of knits, and the knit fabric was usually tubular. So if you put up 100, 100 plies of tubular, you really have 200 if your doing it open. So we would generally spread let's say 100 plies of tubular ply and might not compact quite as firmly open goods, so maybe you would only get 180, and then you put the marker on top of all these goods, and the knife is usually like 10" in height, although there are shorter ones, and they push it through following the line, and that's how you cut- cut out the different parts for the different garments. There were automatic cutting systems available too, but that didn't fit my type of- an automatic cutting system would be a good way like in a blue jean factory where you were just making millions of garments and everything is the same. SC: It gave you more flexibility in the business, it would seem -- that you could get in and out of one item.. GE: You have more niches. LB: Yeah, right. GE: Were there any other administrative people besides yourself? Or you were really the soul- LB: Yes. GE: The brains behind the whole operation and the selling. LB: Whatever. SC: Yeah. Wow. LB: The real estate business also became a significant part of my- SC: Was that unionized? LB: No. No. First I just bought, we just bought a couple of buildings, and then I actually built a few buildings. The largest one was in Allentown, 48 apartments. GE: Oh, where? Which? I mean, is it just- is it a complex? LB: Yeah. Garden Apartments, South Tioga Street. GE: Okay. I don't know--is that South Allentown? SC: That's South Allentown. LB: And I had some in Emmaus. You might know -- we owned at one point the Powder Mill Apartments back on Furnace Street. SC: Oh yeah. LB: I don't know if you are familiar with Emmaus. SC: Yes, I live outside of Emmaus. I have to visit them. GE: Now was this somewhat the '70s when the real estate is becoming a much larger part? LB: I started that right after we bought the Quaker Shoe buildings in 1972. GE: Okay. LB: So, between 1972 and maybe in 1993, we did real estate. SC: Was there a specific impetus for you to get into building your own after you bought in- bought some? LB: I really just liked it. SC: That's a good reason. GE: And I assume also at the same time the apparel was becoming a more difficult business, a less profitable, a more competitive business, going more overseas and things of that nature. LB: Well, not until the late '80s. GE: Oh, that happened more in the late '80s. Okay, okay. So in the '70s, when you were getting into this, you just saw this as a new adventure in a sense. LB: Right. GE: Just an expanding of your- LB: Didn't have enough to do. SC: Did you plan out the apartments, how they were going to be set up, sort of in the same way you did with your sewing business? LB: When I did that, I always worked with an architect. SC: But you had ideas about how you wanted them to be laid out? LB: Well, actually, I would always run it by an interior decorator first, make sure the furniture- there was enough wall space. Women always want a breakfront and just to make sure. Sometimes a wall just being a few inches too short is a big impediment to its being marketable. But believe it or not, one of the first things that women would look for, "Is there room for my breakfront?" BEVERLEY BLOCH: [inaudible]. LB: Everything washers and dryers. The Tioga Street property, I did put a washer and dryer in each apartment, but prior to that, we had laundry rooms, which was a lucrative business as well. SC: But that movement as you- it got more towards the present was people wanted their- LB: Sure, but there is still the laundry machine business, laundromats, is still a good business. GE: Interesting. LB: Not a bad business. There is a large one that opened up about two years ago on 8th Street between 9th and 10th. GE: On 8th Street where, between Tilghman? LB: No, on Linden Street. GE: Linden, okay. LB: Between 9th & ; 10th. SC: And that would be a good area to have one. LB: Well, the area for laundromats is where there's older homes and people would not have washers and dryers. If they have their own washers and dryers, they are not going to go to a laundromat. SC: New populations. LB: But there are a lot of people who still don't have washers and dryers. GE: Any of your children- Did any of your children get involved either in the real estate part or in the garment, in the textile? LB: No, not really. Our oldest son, Craig, is a pediatrician. Our daughter sold advertising space for a Washington newspaper, and now she is a special education teacher for reading. SC: What's her name? LB: Carol. And our youngest son, Wayne, is an attorney, and he was a partner in Philadelphia, Klehr Harrison. And he gave- he left that firm about twelve years ago and started his own hedge fund, he's in the investment business now. GE: Oh, okay. LB: And as far as the sewing business, they could have been interested in it, particularly our older son, but I could see at that point without a doubt that the future for the clothing manufacturing business was not bright and rosy. GE: Right. LB: And he was so good in the sciences. GE: Right. He is lucky you had that foresight. LB: And so I said I think you should go to school for the sciences. SC: Where did he go to school? LB: Ah, Craig went to Tufts undergrad, Carol went to the University of Maryland, and Wayne went to the University of Michigan. GE: All wonderful schools, right. SC: This is an American story, this is a dream story. BB: [Inaudible]. GE: Well, you know what, Beverley, we'll interview you. No, no, no because- because- right. No, no, absolutely. SC: This is tape number 3, July 25th, 2011, an interview with Leonard Bloch. And can we talk about flex time? When you started flex time before probably anybody did and also how you allowed women to work with their families in mind in other ways? LB: I was able to handle flexible hours. If an employee had an elderly parent or children or whatever the need might be, they did not have to work 7 1/2 continuous hours. That was our...overtime was first over 7 1/2 and then over 7. But they could work, have an extra hour or two for lunch or just work mornings or just work afternoons or a combination of mornings and evenings or just evenings, and it worked out well for them, and it didn't hurt me. I could- I had their loyalty. If I needed a favor in return, it was no problem. SC: That's wonderful. And when did you- Did you start that right from the beginning? LB: Yeah. GE: In fact, why don't you share with us- You were saying that where the typical shift ended at 3:30, if you wanted to stay a little bit but if you had a job that required people to work later... LB: Oh, right. If I had an order that had to go out and wasn't finished, it just wasn't going to be done by quitting time, and I needed people to stay to finish it, the only reason someone would refuse generally speaking was if they just had a commitment or a responsibility that they just couldn't, but they could stay until 8, 9 o'clock in the evening on many occasions. SC: So do you have any other questions about the business that you can think of? GE: No, and then we will talk about a little bit when you were saying in terms of family, as well as your sense . . . how about your sense of the Allentown textile industry, or I shouldn't say the Allentown, I should say the Lehigh Valley -- because there were a lot of contractors, correct? LB: There were. There were several hundred in the Lehigh Valley at one time. GE: Right. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Was there much collaboration among the contractors? Was it very competitive among the contractors? How did all- some of those things--? LB: It was a competitive market. It was competitive for help, seamstresses. It was competitive for getting the work, getting the contracts for- Speaking of contracts, it's not in the usual context of a contract. In my over 40 years in the business, I never had one written contract. It was always word of mouth. I would go to New York and some style we decided we were going to make, and it was just, the industry didn't lend itself to contracts. Like they could say, we are going to make this style for the next one month, or 24 months, they didn't know any more than I knew, so it was always just- And if someone would come in at some point and make it for less money, you might lose it if you couldn't meet the price. And in the New York market, the New York jobbers as they were called, the people I dealt with, some of the sharpest, shrewdest business people you would ever meet. GE: Now when you say the jobbers, they were therefor in between the manufacturer and a contractor? LB: No, the jobber and manufacturer would be synonymous. GE: Okay. But they were the ones who actually were selling them to the department stores or to whatever. LB: They sold the merchandise to the department stores. GE: Okay, and who you worked with was just the person in their firm who worked with whoever was going to make it for them? LB: Right. GE: What about, were you associated with the contractors association? Because we spoke with, we did meet with Arnold Delin. LB: Yes- No, I never joined. GE: Okay, just wondering. Okay, why? You didn't feel it was in your interest, or--? LB: Well, obviously, I guess I didn't feel it was in my interest, which maybe I was right or maybe I was wrong. GE: Right. LB: I always did my own negotiation with the union. I never had a strike, and I never gave in too easily. And I just felt, I guess-- GE: That it wasn't needed. Okay. LB: It wasn't, it wasn't in my interest. And I was one of the few plants that did not belong to the Association. But if you belong to the Association and the Association decided to go in a certain direction, you were obligated, I would be obligated to go in that direction as well. GE: And you wanted more, both autonomy and independence that way? LB: Yes. GE: Were there any directions that they went into that you did very differently? LB: No, they were very good for the members that they represented, and there were times I should've- when I thought maybe I should have joined, but I didn't. GE: Right. SC: I hope this question isn't too much of a tangent, but when you go to New York, and you see racks of clothing being wheeled down the street in the garment industry, the garment center of New York City, well how does that fit into the whole picture? And I'm showing my ignorance of not knowing. LB: Well, in New York there are also a lot of contractors, and many times there's the garment district, so if the contracting shop is close to the manufacturer or jobber that they got the work from, they'll just load it on racks and push them down the street. GE: Oh, so it's just that. LB: Yeah, so it's just the convenience. GE: Right, they don't have to worry about having trucks deliver it. SC: Especially in New York City. LB: Right. SC: Could we talk a little bit about your work in the community and in, you know, just in the general community, wherever you have been involved? GE: Actually, before we get into that, what are your memories of the community? In other words, when you were a child, you can give us a little bit of insight, what was the Allentown community like, and what was the Allentown Jewish community like? Both institutionally, what you know, what institutions were here, where were they, how active were they, what was the size of the community, where did it live, you know things of that nature? LB: Well, I've always lived here, and I guess summing up, you could say I always loved my community. And, after Beverley and I were married, we both loved the community. And I was active in the community, as you know. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was President of the School Board for a couple years. I was on the Board of Temple Beth El. I was president of Temple Beth El from 1982-1987. I was president of the Endowment Foundation for about 10-11 years. It started in 1987-1988, whenever my term as president ended. And I was a Trustee at St. Luke's Hospital for 10 years, from 1982-1991. GE: I'm sorry, that was St. Luke's? LB: St Luke's Hospital. Don Ritter, Congressman Don Ritter, appointed me to the Local Small Business Administration Advisory Board. I was on that for about three years, one term. What else did I do? GE: That's pretty good. SC: Yeah, that's a pretty long list. How about when you were in high school, were you involved in the community in any way? Or at school, in the activities at school? LB: Not big involvements . . . GE: Were you in the youth group? Were you in AZA? LB: I was in SAR. GE: SAR. Can you just tell us what SAR is? LB: Sigma Alpha Roe. GE: Okay, and is that a secular fraternity, or is that a Jewish one? LB: It's a Jewish fraternity. GE: Oh, okay yeah, I knew of AZA. LB: Yes, it's a cove.[?] GE: Okay. LB: But not affiliated with any umbrella group. GE: Okay. And did your family, were they members at Beth El? LB: Yes. GE: Okay. So your member- your leadership at Beth El, your leadership at the hospital, at the Small Business Advisory Group, did all of these activities, would you say this is starting in the '70s? Most of this leadership, the leadership roles? Or even earlier? LB: Oh yeah, there was a handicapped group at the Good Shepherd Home. GE: What is that called? LB: It was called Operation Overcome. They couldn't afford a lawyer, so they had me as chairman of their legal committee. GE: And this is, this is with just a high school? LB: Yes. This was in the days before- when curb cuts were just getting started. GE: Oh, the curb cut, yeah. LB: And I organized a roll on the mall since Bartholomew was the mayor at the time. GE: Gosh that's before my- SC: Was that in the early '80s? GE: I think earlier. SC: Earlier than that? LB: Earlier. It was in the, perhaps in the late- GE: Because Doddona was in the '70s when I came in the late 70s. LB: Pretty sure it was Chip. In any event, the mayor, whoever he was, said, rolling off a curb is such a small thing, why would you need a ramp? And it's going to be an impediment for able-bodied people when the sidewalk slopes down. I said I'll tell you what, do me a favor, any day it is convenient for you and one or two or three other City Council people, let's have a roll from 10th Street down to city hall. And after you've bounced up and down from the curbs, if you still tell me that it's nothing, I'll go away -- on a wheelchair. And so after that they endorsed curb cuts. And then the addition was being built for, at that time, Allentown High School. Now it's William Allen High School. On Linden Street, they were building a Library and Science addition, and they were not putting an elevator in into the building. So when I went to speak to the Chairman of the School Board, they said there is already an elevator in the main section, and there is going to be a way to get from that main section to the new section. And besides, there is going to be library and science rooms in the old section as well as in the new section. So my response to that was I think that went out a couple years ago with separate but equal. But as things worked out, we didn't make any progress on that. So my lawyer at the time was Clayton Hyman, I got him to file a lawsuit against the school district, which he did pro bono. And we got the state Department of Labor and Industry to file a brief on our behalf in support of it. And the end of the story is, they not only redesigned the building once they understood the problem -- they came and sat down and listened and they understood -- and they redesigned the building and put an elevator in the design. But the new Administration Building on 4th and Penn was already built and could no longer be brought into this lawsuit. It was from- with the American Disabilities Act, the basis, they retrofitted that building, but there was room on the outside to patch in an elevator, similar to what they did at the Lyric Theater. Now there is an elevator on the parking lot side. So we got an elevator in the Administration Building which during the negotiations I made mention that there are physically challenged people in the community, and we have more than our share because of the Good Shepherd Home. People are residents there, and they can do things, but a step prevents them from going into a building they are paying taxes for and being able to work there. And so, that was- GE: That's really something. That's really wonderful. And so again, just for me to get a little bit of a timeline, so all of these things were these things that you were involved in starting around the '70s, all of these different things, your leadership roles? LB: No, I guess- GE: Even earlier? LB: Yeah. GE: [19]60s, maybe? The '60s and on? LB: In the '60s, right, hon? GE: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm saying that would be 50 years ago. I'm not exactly sure how old you are, 70-? LB: Seventy-six. GE: Seventy-six. So you think these were things, even leadership, you started getting involved even in your 20s or 30s or-? LB: Yeah. GE: And tell us about your memories of the Jewish community when you were, because you grew up here your whole life, as a child and teen versus a young adult, you know, versus a father in, you know, your 30s and 40s and now as a senior? You know, what have you seen? How has it changed? You know a little bit of that. LB: Well in terms of demographics, the Jewish community has moved in a Western direction like for instance, Temple Beth El used to be at 17th and Hamilton- GE: And I guess when you were younger, it was even 6th or something? LB: I was BarMitzvahed at 12th and Walnut. GE: 12th and Walnut, is that where it started? 12th and Walnut? LB: Yes, that's where it started. Well, we were married at 19, so as a young person ; and we were dating since we were 16--15? Yeah, 15. GE: Isn't that unbelievable? Wonderfully so. LB: Yeah. I was very active in Sigma Alpha Rho and the Jewish Community Center. I was not active in sports. GE: What- Where was the Jewish Community Center? LB: 6th and Chew. GE: Okay, and that was there until- when did it move to 27th and Tilghman? LB: 1958, yeah. SC: Okay. And is that when some people in the African American community started the Negro Cultural Center? Right around that time? LB: They bought the building. SC: Yeah. LB: Yeah, I'm not real aware of it. SC: And then, of course, it's the Health Department, the Conference of Churches, I guess now. GE: But it moved itself to 22nd and Tilghman really just to move with the community, I assume? LB: Right. Oh, and the new Beth El building was built, Rance Block and I supervised the construction with the Butz Company. We- GE: This one? The new building? The last- right. LB: Yeah. Rance and I met with the Butz Company on a weekly or every other week basis, or as needed. And the building came in on time. Started in January and moved into the following January. SC: Wow. And now you're neighbors? Now you're neighbors, you and Lee Butz? LB: Oh yeah. SC: So, did the community change in the next generation, in your children's generation in any way? GE: Did it get larger, smaller, less cohesive, more cohesive? LB: I think the Jewish community has certainly grown. From a business point of view, you don't have the individual business owners that there once were. Like for instance, in the garment industry at one time, it was a really significant- GE: A big presence. LB: Significant presence. The retail stores along Hamilton Street are no longer there, but the professional community has grown, particularly the medical community. And I think the growth for this area in the medical community is certainly going to continue. Right now, St Luke's has an affiliation with Temple University and the new medical school. St. Luke's has started constructing already ; they own a 500-acre tract at the intersection of Route 33 and 78. And they started building, there's going to be a General Electric, they are going to have one of only five in the country, showplace of their latest x-ray and scanners. GE: That will be wonderful for the community. SC: Do you remember any of the names of in- the needle trades right in Allentown? Maybe that would be something to write down sometime. It would be really- LB: You mean other- SC: Other businesses, yeah. LB: Schneider Manufacturing. That's Irwin Schneider. Allentown Manufacturing. That's George Hirsch. GE: We have Leonard- Len Manufacturing? Is that what it was called? LB: Leonard. Leonard Manufacturing. SC: But if you think of any, it would be really helpful if we- you know just to sort of look back maybe in the newspapers or anything. GE: Who all- You know who I have a feeling will be able to give me a lot of those names? LB: Arnold Delin. GE: Oh, Arnold Delin, yes. LB: He could take out- GE: Yes. LB: He could take out- GE: Yes. SC: Yes, yes. LB: He could take out this list. They'll all be there. SC: Yes, sorry, that's true. GE: But actually even, even Rance. I was surprised how much he knew the names because he gave me a whole list of people to contact. LB: Lot of clients. Yes. GE: But he said, you know I insured them all. And I thought that was interesting, you know, you don't necessarily think of that. Or at least I didn't initially think of that, so I thought that was interesting. SC: I have another tangential question that's a little self-interested. Do you remember anything about the years when the Urban Renewal Processes were going around- on in Allentown, especially the Little Lehigh Renewal Project that was the most contentious in Allentown? Were you involved with the city or any- any portion of that at that time? LB: No. I remember when they wanted to change Hamilton Street into the Hamilton Mall, and I felt, along with the merchants, that that was a poor direction to go in. The merchants I clearly remember were solidly against changing Hamilton Street to one way and making it narrow. And I think the time has proven that they were right. All around the country in those days, the cities were tearing down old elevated subways or railways, whatever it was, and we were making our own Hell coming down Hamilton Street. SC: So, some of the- You answered most of the questions before we could ask them. You honestly did, you followed through in such a logical fashion. We asked about the wider community, and I- GE: But you know, we may want to ask in here in terms of just a little bit, I thought it was actually wonderful what Beverley was saying in terms of what you were able to offer your family education-wise and your wife education-wise. And I think that gets into here. SC: Yeah. GE: And so do you want to just share that with us because it wasn't on the last tape. LB: Well, Beverley certainly didn't come to work in the factory every day. We were always involved in everything together. We've been partners in everything. The factory and the building- GE: Did you say she did come to work? LB: No, she didn't. GE: She did not, okay. LB: But, we did things together. GE: Right. And do you want to just share with us that eventually one of the, maybe, one of the things you were able to do, putting your children through college, letting your wife go to college that she never had that opportunity. If you just want to share, you and Beverley mentioned it briefly before, but we just don't have it on the tape. And so where your children ended up going to college, you were able to do without them taking out loans. LB: Yeah, well, we both certainly knew the value of education. And there was no question that our children were going to go to college and it was great that after our kids were in college, that Bev could go back to school and get her degree. GE: Right. And where did Bev go to school? LB: Cedar Crest. GE: Right. And also, do you want to just tell us where your children ended up going to school? You already told us, but for the tape. LB: Oh, I thought it was already on tape. GE: No, it wasn't. It was in between tapes. LB: My son Greg went to undergrad at Tufts University, and he went to medical school at Duke. Our daughter Carol went to the University of Maryland, and our son Wayne went to the University of Michigan and got his law degree at BU, Boston University. GE: Wonderful. And then we just wanted to ask a couple of final closing questions. SC: Right, but it's going to go off, so I'll just ask that in a second. So I- we have two very sort of amorphous questions, maybe, but what do you value most in life? LB: My family, my wife, obviously. SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or creative or given you a sense of completion in life the most? LB: I guess I've always valued my extracurricular, if you will, community activities the most. When I started in the garment industry, I made a promise to myself that I was not going just to be involved in business and get lost. And I suppose the experience that I value that I enjoyed the most has been the presidency of Temple Beth El. It was a challenge in many different ways. And also the years I spent at, second, it would be the years I spent at St Luke's Hospital. SC: Thank you so much. LB: My pleasure. Interview with Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is July 25th, 2011, interview continuing with the Blochs. And would you state your full name and your birthdate? BEVERLEY BLOCH: I'm Beverley Bloch. Beverley Berg Bloch. And my birthdate is August 13th, 1935. SC: And would you then, let's go back in your family a little bit, and then we'll put you into context with your family. Where- What do you know about your parents? Give me their names, and also where they and perhaps their parents came from as far back as you know. BB: My father was, may he rest in peace, Joseph Berg. The name actually was Bergada, and he was from Pricin, Hungary, a small community in Hungary. And my mother was, may she rest in peace, Mildred Kleinberg. She was born in this country in a very small coal town called Oliphant, Pennsylvania. GAIL EISENBERG: Oh I've heard of Oliphant. Sorry, tell me again, what was your mother's name? BB: Mildred. SC: And that will be on the tape, too, but sometimes it's good to have it on the notes. Okay, do you know any more about their parents and grandparents? BB: Definitely. My mother was actually second generation, born in this country. Her mother was born in Oliphant, Pennsylvania. My mother's grandfather came with his cousins and probably brothers and sisters I did not know to Oliphant, and my great-great-grandfather built buildings. He had- he had a factory, I mean a foundry, and built buildings. Her mother- his mother- my mother's- GE: They "built buildings", did they build the bricks? BB: He built the bricks that made buildings. Excuse me. GE: Right. BB: Yes, that's exactly what he did. He made the bricks that build the buildings. So my grandmother, my mother's mother, was also born in Oliphant, Pennsylvania. When I was a child growing up, I had a kindergarten teacher, a private kindergarten teacher, Miss Flynn, who actually taught my grandmother and my mother in the Oliphant public schools. My mother's father had a grocery store. My dad was an immigrant boy whose family had come to Scranton, Pennsylvania. And he drove a cookie truck, a bakery truck. And my mother- GE: A delivery route. BB: A delivery route that went as far as Oliphant. And, excuse me. My mother and he fell in love. She would push putting his bakery products on the shelves of her father's store. They became engaged and opened their own little store on the main street of Oliphant before they actually were married. And then they opened the store. It was a mom and pop grocery store. In later years we lived over the store. SC: Was this in the '30s? BB: Yes, I was born 1935, and they were married for about four years. And we, my sister and I who was born two years and 9 months later, and we were actually raised with the store as the focal part of our existence. It was a Polish, Ukrainian, Irish community -- Welch, because the name Oliphant was taken from a Lord Oliphant, he named it for his Welch compatriots. We had a babysitter, a nanny, you would say today, and she wasn't really, the Polish girls would watch us while my mom and dad worked in the store until late in the evening. And that's the way we grew up. Do you want to know more about my background? GE: Your mom's family, they were in Oliphant, where were they from in Europe? BB: Poland. GE: From Poland. Did you know where in Poland? BB: No, I have no idea because my mother was already- because she was third generation never spoke about Poland. I did try to find my father's village when we were in Hungary. And it had moved from Hungary into the Ukraine and was put there by the Russians when they occupied Eastern Europe. GE: So today it's really part of the Ukraine? BB: Part of Ukraine, Pricin, P-R-I-C-I-N? P-R-I-C-I-N, Pricin. SC: And how many names do you know going back? Do you know any other names in your family? BB: No, I only know that I had, well, an uncle, who was in radio and television locally in Wilkes-Barre and Scranton. He changed the name to Berg, and then the rest of the family followed suit. SC: What was his first name? BB: Hal. Hal Berg. He had a wonderful children's show called The Land of Hatchy Milatchy. But he died tragically at the age of 54, so he did not fulfill a lot of- SC: Yeah, so your young life was up in- BB: Oliphant. SC: In the coal regions? BB: In the coal region. By the time I was 14, and I was the only Jewish kid in my class, I realized that I wanted to meet other Jewish kids. I realized that I would never get a good education. The education in Oliphant, Pennsylvania, the boys went into the mines, the girls went into then sewing plants. There were little sewing plants also in Oliphant. So I said to my parents that I would like very much to get a better education so there was a bus, buses that would start higher up in the coal regions -- Carbondale, Jessup -- and they would do what they call go "down the line" into Scranton. So when I was fourteen, I went, I registered to a Scranton school, Scranton Central High School, and I would take the bus every morning, approximately probably around 7:00. GE: Was that a problem? In other words, was that something that someone was just able to do? BB: No, not necessarily. My grandmother luckily, my father's mother, the family that migrated from New York when they came off the boats from Europe and went to Scranton. Most of them stayed in Scranton. My father was the only one that moved to Oliphant. So I was able to give my grandmother's address. I would not have been allowed to go to a school out of the district. GE: Right, I was wondering. BB: Fortunately, I think the administration looked the other way. I was a decent student, and they didn't question my graduating year. And in the course of time, the second year of school, when I had befriended a young woman who, also her father, had moved their family to Scranton. She moved to Allentown, so at fifteen she called me -- why she would remembered someone she had met for only one year -- called me and said, "I would like you to come to visit, you were so nice when I lived in Scranton." And I got on the bus, and I had a blind date with someone named Leonard Bloch. GE: Oh, my goodness. BB: We met at the Jewish Community Center at 6th and Chew Street, and the rest is history. SC: Wow. BB: We kept dating. SC: Long distance dating for a while? BB: Yeah, our wedding songbook said, "Martz Bus Made Money on Bev & ; Her Honey." And it was true. Martz Bus would carry me to Bethlehem, not to Allentown, and Lenny would meet me in Bethlehem, and we just continued dating. And having had the responsibilities he had as a very young boy made him very mature, and after his mother passed away, it was even more so. He was very close to his mother, and he was very lonely for . . .you know, so we married at 19. GE: How old was he when his mother passed away? BB: Seventeen. Eighteen, actually. GE: So you already had met her? BB: Yes. I did get to meet my mother-in-law. GE: That's a blessing. BB: Yes, that's when she was starting to be sick. SC: To go back to your parents when they started their store, and that was 1931? BB: Probably around then. SC: They started the store, that was a really brave time to start a business in 1931. I mean that was going down to rock bottom by '32 to use a cliché. GE: However, people still had to eat. SC: People had to eat so it was a good, it was a good decision, but also a lot of people had to sign a book rather than give money. BB: Everything my father sold at the store was on the books. SC: Everything. BB: Everything. The miners, who were his main source of income, they lived from one paycheck to the next, so- And my mother worked very hard with my father in the store. My sister and I were like original latchkey kids. We always came home to an empty apartment. GE: So given that you were- It was such a small number of Jewish children, and you were saying it was an Orthodox community in a much, in the school, whatever -- was it difficult? Were you tormented or in any way? BB: There was a certain amount of anti-Semitism. Basically speaking, no, I was not tormented. I can't speak for what the boys in the area may have felt. From a girl's point of view, I had many non-Jewish friends, mostly non-Jewish friends. If they would become angry at me, the first remark out of their mouth might be "You dirty Jew." It might be. Because they were being raised themselves in an environment that was totally anti-Semitic. But as I said, we did have a little synagogue that serviced the area. When I said "area", it was like Jessup, Blakely, Dixie City, these were all small towns where mostly, the merchants were Jews, they have little stores, the dry goods stores, the pharmacy was a Jewish man in our community, the grocery store. These were Jews, so, yes, they came together in Oliphant. The beauty of my childhood was the very fact that because we could not afford a rabbi full time if they did, a Malamud, a teacher, if they did not educate the girls as well as the boys, they wouldn't have been able to have them. So I therefore after school almost every day went to our little Talmud Torah, which was a little building next to the synagogue, and I loved to pray. I loved to chant. Today in my adulthood, I do a service once a month in a nursing home ; I did it here in Allentown. I- I became very adept. I love to chant. So I do thank my parents very much for the very fact that the community was as it was. I got a Hebrew -- not a speaking-- a prayer Hebrew education. GE: Right. Interesting. SC: Did you want to add on to that question at all? Or should we move on? GE: No, no, I thought you did a great job. SC: Yeah. So if we move forward to when you got married and also how you became involved in the business, even if you didn't go into the office every day. So if you can talk about how you got in, how you became involved in the business, and how you were involved, even though you didn't go into work every day? BB: I, actually, having been raised by a mother who was not home, I was truly averse to leaving my children. I almost made a vow that I would not marry anyone who would demand my participation in the business. But of course, Lenny and I discussed everything that he did, he would come home and we would talk. When he would have a jobber come to Allentown, of course it was up to me to be sure to entertain the jobber. I remember once we actually had a jobber with his wife who came to Allentown, and New Yorkers, I don't know if this is typical, but she said, "Do you have central air conditioning?" It happened to have been summer, and I said, "Yes," and I made a little offhanded joke, I said, "Yes, but the plumbing is outside." So I mean, that's the kind of thing we would do, and when we went into the construction of apartments, of course, I was also not physically involved but we would discuss everything. And at one point actually, I did help with the rentals for a time with one of the projects. But basically speaking, I was not physically involved in his business. SC: And as far as those years, do you have any memories, just anecdotes of the business, the things that just as you would talk, that you remember or jumped out at you? BB: Well, there was one really funny one. Every Christmas, Lenny would give, we would have a Christmas party, and we were not large enough or economically feasible enough to go and rent a hall, so we would have a party in the factory itself. Lenny would order cold cuts- my specialty was making Jell-O molds. And I remember taking -- I didn't have a car, I took a taxi with my Jell-o molds out to 6th street. And on the way, the molds started to melt. And this poor taxi driver, my mold melted all over his car, his cab. Well, that was one of the really highlights of my helping out with the Christmas party! I knew a lot of the girls that worked for him, and they would tell me different things about their home life, things like that. We were always invited every Christmas to his bookkeeper's home, for the most delicious kiffles that you ever want to taste. And that was another example of Lenny's flex time. She was a woman with small children, lived near the factory, Lenny took the bookkeeping books to her so that she did not have to leave her home. And that's how she worked for him, out of her home, and she appreciated that very much. GE: Right. BB: Other than that, just a sounding board, I tried to be a sounding board for whatever my husband had to talk about. SC: Do you have any thoughts about the business, as far as how Lenny managed it, and- and the way he treated his workers and you know, the years of how the business got along? BB: I admired and respected my husband tremendously. To be a person without a college education, which most of his friends, when we were twenty and had a child, his friends came to visit, and they were second-year college students. I mean, they looked at us and thought... And then I admired him tremendously for another reason. Our daughter is disabled, she was born disabled. And he became not only my help-mate, but I could not have actually gotten through the years that we had with hospitals and physical therapy, and everything that goes with raising a disabled child without having this wonderful help-mate, strong, courageous, was at my side for everything. And into our adult years, I mean our elderly years where we both have had major physical problems, we have been there for each other. So I'm- and I am very proud of him, very proud of all the accomplishments that he's had, and with all of the obstacles that were put in his path. SC: What have you done in the community? How have you been a part of the Jewish community but also the wider community? BB: All right, when I was twenty, I went back- excuse me, when my child was twenty, excuse me- when my daughter who went to college, once she was able to go to college, I felt free to pursue my own education, and I went to Cedar Crest. The reason I went back to college was when she was about eight or nine, I started working as a volunteer at the Crippled Childrens Society. And I felt a real sense of a vocation for me. I liked working with people ; I liked helping people. And having raised this child and not having the ability to have a social worker help us -- in 1958, there was no such thing as a social worker in the hospitals to send you home with a child who was going to profoundly need tremendous care. And your other children, when they would be involved in what had happened to the family -- there was no such thing. So I saw my bent in life, I would become a social worker. So, it took me ten years. In the interim, I was active with Hadassah ; I was on the board of Hadassah. I was on the Board of the Temple, and when Rance Block was president, I became the social secretary- I don't know what they called it. GE: Probably recording secretary for the Board? BB: No, I worked with programming. Programming. I don't know if it was the vice presidency. GE: Activities? BB: Activities Vice-President, yes. I was the Activities Vice-President under Rance. GE: And that's a big job. BB: I was going to college, maybe thirty credits at a time. Something like that. It took me ten years to get my degree. SC: That's great. Have you worked as a social worker? BB: Unfortunately, no, not as a- I did not have a paid position. When I was ready to graduate, one year before my graduation, Lenny had seven bypasses, heart bypasses. He was 49 years old. I think he realized then that he would have to find a way to take life a little easier. And we had had an apartment in Florida that we used just as an interim place because my mom lived in Florida, and we wanted to be able to touch base easily. We- he said he'd like to start going to Florida, at least for a month. And when I went looking for a job, and I did go looking for a job, and I told them I would have to be taking off a month, they- it wasn't- so I have done, in Florida I- I worked as a volunteer for a group called Listen to Children: Palm Beach Mental Health, where I worked one-on-one with children who had emotional disturbances. I did that, I'm now a Vice-President of Education for my chapter of Hadassah in Florida. So I have found ways to- and I- I do a service once a month at a nursing home for the residents. SC: And you live in Florida for seven months of the year? BB: Seven months of the year now. We did not originally, of course, but we gradually started to go to Florida for longer times as our children got older. SC: You mentioned that there was some anti-Semitism in . . . when you were a child. Did you experience that once you came to Allentown? BB: No. None whatsoever. But then again, we were heavily involved in the Jewish community. But well through Lenny's activities and mine somewhat, we did interact a lot with non-Jews. And never did I feel any anti-Semitism. SC: Did you, in those years, how did Allentown and the Jewish community and also in the wider community change? BB: Well, as Lenny mentioned, the demographics of the community changed tremendously. When we bought our first home on Marshall Street, it was the end of the city. That was the end of the city. And then, of course, we saw the city move so much further west. And in terms of people who live here, it changed from a community of perhaps the entrepreneurs to professional men, mostly, as Lenny mentioned, medical. And so we saw that. As the years went on, our involvement with other Jews became greater, of course, when we were young marrieds, the small Jewish community then would have nothing to do with us because they knew our age and they weren't going to be friends with people who were 19 years of age since they were already in their mid-twenties. GE: Did you really find that? BB: Yes. But then as the years went on and we had children, right away, we became more integrated and neutralized the situation. Yes, yes. SC: Because your children and the other children and the other parents were all- BB: At the same age. SC: And so has the Jewish community changed over the years in other ways, any other ways? BB: I think Beth El, from- which really is the only community I can speak of, has become more vibrantly Jewish, which is really lovely to see. When we go to services now on a Shabbat morning, and we have- participation is just marvelous. In the early years, that when I was here with Rabbi Greenburg, let him rest in peace- in peace -- in fact he bar-mitzvahed my son as well as my husband -- it was a more formal Jewish experience. For example, Friday nights, Lenny and I would leave our children, rush to get out of the house after Sabbath dinner, so we could go to services. No one would do that today. You would bring your small children to services with you. Rabbi Greenburg, let him rest in peace, was of the old school, children could be a disturbance to the service, not an adding of beauty to the service. And I'm- I was sorry for that later on that my children did not get that kind of an experience, but I find the Jewish community today to be much more vibrant, and I love seeing all the little children. For instance, this Friday night, this last Friday night, we had congregational dinner, and we had babies, babies at the dinner. It was marvelous. GE: We were there Saturday? BB: Yeah, yeah. SC: Along with all of that, have you belonged to any social organizations outside the Jewish community? BB: I was the vice-president of the Parent-Teacher Association's at Trexler Junior High School. As I said, I worked for the Crippled Childrens Society, I volunteered for five or six years. I think that's about, about it, yeah. SC: And with the community, has the community been more- has it dispersed more a little bit in some ways, or has it been pulling together? Because in so many communities, whether it's ethnic or religious, everything is just sort of dispersed, and there isn't a core anymore. BB: Well, I'm looking at the community, remember, from the outside-in. I'm seven months away from this community. SC: That's true. So you probably have a more objective viewpoint than some people. BB: Well, I think from what I read in Hakol, from what I just see, Federation seems to be, Jewish Federation seems to be the nucleus of what really brings the entire Jewish community together. From what I can see, there is a tremendous vibrancy within that group. Young women especially being very involved -- young men and women -- being very involved. SC: And is this the next generation or are these- Are the people that are involved now the people that have come in from other areas? Have you lost people that are, perhaps your children or your friends' children, to go work in other places and live other places? BB: Well, our children do not, unfortunately, live [here]. Our oldest son lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with his wife. I don't think he's- he does belong to a Chabad, but interestingly enough, he is married to a Baptist. SC: It's the new generation. BB: A new generation, yes. Our daughter lives in Rockville, Maryland. She still works. She's working for- as a reading specialist, as Lenny mentioned. Her first marriage ended in divorce. Her second marriage is to a also physically challenged man, and he's not of the Jewish faith. But she did BarMitzvah the child that they have, who was adopted. Our grandson was BarMitzvahed, so she belonged to a conservative temple. Our youngest guy and his wife live in Philadelphia. They are very active in the Jewish community. My daughter-in-law is on the Board of Federation, she's very active in Jewish Family Service. Our son was on the Board of the New Jewish Museum so they are very active and they have two youngsters. One going off to my son's alma mater, his daughter is going off this fall to his alma mater, University of Michigan. GE: He'll be able to see your older brother, or their older uncle. BB: Yeah, they're- she's thrilled that she'll be coming to Michigan. GE: I think the only thing is to ask the last couple of questions. LEONARD BLOCH: [inaudible] BB: Pardon, honey? LB: [inaudible] BB: Well that's within Federation, Jewish Family Service. LB: No [inaudible]. The Bridge. BB: The Bridge. My daughter in law and several of her friends started a new organization called the Bridge, where they specify x amount of dollars that are given only to people who unfortunately have had things happen to them that has thrown them perhaps into temporary welfare, whatever. The money they give is the bridge, the bridge that puts them back into being able to have independent lives again. GE: That's wonderful. SC: So, what do you value in life most? BB: My family. My family, my culture, my Judaism, very much my Judaism. The years when we were raising our daughter, without my faith, I don't think I would have gotten through easily. And Israel. We value Israel, we worry about Israel, and we worry, I think, about Judaism in general, and, you know, where is- where is our country going, in general. SC: Have any of your children or grandchildren been able to go to Israel? BB: Yes. SC: Because this is something that our students are really- so much opportunity, it's wonderful. BB: Yes, our oldest was in Israel when he was in his early-in college- oh no, he went before that, didn't he? LB: Early 20s. BB: Early 20s for sure he was in Israel. Our daughter -- and she is disabled, she walks with crutches and with the braces -- and she went to Israel with a youth-- We did elocution, that's what they called it. You had to give a little speech or something. SC: So you were talking about your daughter going to Israel? BB: Yes, Lenny reminded me, our daughter Carol went to Israel as a teenager. She has not since been back, as far as we know she has not been back. Our son Wayne, our youngest child, went to high school in Israel and then- GE: Was that one year? BB: One year, one summer, actually. Just one summer, and that was a marvelous experience for him. He has since been back, he brought- took his family there, just a few years ago. Lenny and I support in Israel, in Jerusalem, Alyn. Not many people know about Alyn. Alyn is the hospital for disabled, the only hospital in Israel for disabled youngsters. And we were on our first Federation trip, when we were married 20 years, we were taken to Alyn. And Alyn is one of our favorite charities. And our son went there with his family. And then our grandson did a project, he's 16, for his Bar Mitzvah, with disabled youngsters in the United States. SC: What makes you feel the most creative? BB: Creative? That's a very difficult question. Creative. I like to make mandel bread for my family, that's my specialty, making mandel bread. GE: That's like a- like biscotti? BB: Biscotti, it's a Jewish biscotti, and whenever I have to take something to a friend- GE: I'll have to give you a call to get the recipe. BB: Mine is a basic simple recipe, and everybody seems to love it. So that makes me feel very good to be able to do something like that. Creativity, I am not a musician of any sort. My chanting, my chanting makes me feel very creative. SC: Yes, metaphoric sense of creativity. LB: I was going to say, I've been at Bev's service already at the nursing home, and the looks on the faces of the residents of love when they say "here comes the Cantor". GE: Oh, yeah. BB: I enjoy doing that very much. That makes me feel very creative. LB: They really love her. SC: That's wonderful. I can understand why. I can see that. Well, thank you very much. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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01:59:56
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Leonard and Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011
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Leonard Bloch talks about his father’s reluctant start in the needle-trade business. A few years after Lenny’s father started the business, Lenny’s mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. As a result, rather than go to college, Lenny joined the business after he graduated from high school and quickly discovered he both enjoyed and had an affinity for managing the business.
Beverly Bloch talks about the challenge of growing up in Oliphant, PA in a home where her mom worked long hours in their “mom and pop” grocery store. Growing up without her own mother at home, Beverly was determined to be a stay-at-home mother to her children.
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LVTNT-31
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2011-07-25
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Shirley Berman
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-32.xml
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5.4 June 24, 2013 Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013 LVTNT-32 56:19 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Shirley Berman Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BermanShirley_20130624.mp4 1.0:|25(11)|48(4)|71(9)|86(7)|105(4)|124(3)|141(16)|158(6)|177(13)|196(14)|223(10)|250(6)|271(8)|296(5)|323(7)|342(19)|357(17)|378(17)|405(8)|420(3)|439(14)|456(3)|475(7)|494(8)|517(8)|544(5)|565(5)|586(13)|611(4)|622(13)|643(12)|666(10)|687(3)|708(11)|725(15)|740(15)|763(5)|786(17)|823(6)|848(15)|897(4)|944(6)|969(6)|986(6)|1005(13)|1032(8)|1051(15)|1088(4)|1111(5)|1144(9)|1169(12)|1188(9)|1227(11)|1262(5)|1311(9)|1340(13)|1349(8) 0 https://youtu.be/M1O5Ts9DK8E YouTube video 0 Family History SC: Shirley, may I ask what your full name is including your maiden name and when you were born.
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 ; SB: Shirley Isabelle Malenovsky Berman, and I was born August 14, 1922 and I would like to say welcome to you two lovely ladies.
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 ; SC: Well thank you.
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 ; SB: It’s nice to have you here in my home. 0 833 Shirley Berman's Husband's Family SC: Can we talk a little bit about your husband’s family?
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 ; SB: Sure, My husband was in the army and when he got out of the army, he had worked before for a company in New Jersey somewhere. He and his brother worked for a company.
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 ; GE: What was his brother’s name?
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 ; SB: Rubin.
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 ; GE: So it’s Harry and Rubin. 0 1200 Shirley's Involvement in the Business SC: So after you and Harry were married, did you become involved in the business at all?
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 ; SB: I was involved in the sense that we socialized with his customers and a lot of them didn’t want Harry to come without me. We always traveled together, we went to Europe – all over together. We went to Europe a couple of times a year. A lot of his business was in Europe. 0 1351 The Business SC: Can you explain what you know of the business process?
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 ; SB: He had the first computerized textile machine in the country. The machines were computerized and he could design on the machine itself. He had one of the largest textile businesses in the country, until knitting started to decline. Then fortunately he got out in time and we enjoyed the rest of our lives together as much as we could. 0 1692 Later Family History GE: How about Harry’s education?
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 ; SB: He graduated from high school and then he went two years to night school – night college.
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 ; GE: Was that after the war on the G.I. Bill or was that before the war?
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 ; SB: Well, he graduated high school before the war.
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 ; GE: Right, but how about college?
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 ; SB: It could have been after. He went to a school for design – I forget what you call it.
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 ; GE: Like – I know in Philadelphia – there is the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science. 0 2047 Shirley's Father's Business During the Great Depression GE: And your father’s business managed to stay okay during the Depression?
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 ; SB: They managed – they managed to be fine – they wound up good. We never realized how good they were – we were never told as children their situation. We were just happy for them. I had good parents. It wasn’t like today, we didn’t have the problems that we have today – none of the problems with any of our children. It was a good life, a simple life, my parents never spoiled us, and I never realized the position they were in until after my father passed away. We enjoyed what we had. 0 2166 Connections to Jewish Community SC: When you were a child did you play mostly with kids in the neighborhood, or did you have more connections to the Jewish community?
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 ; SB: I used to walk, when we lived on 5th Street - I used to go to Hebrew School. I used to walk myself coming home at night – I don’t know if you know Allentown – from Fifth Street, the north end – we lived below Washington on Fifth. I walked from there all the way to Sixth and Chew – this would be where the Jewish Community Center was – myself to go to Hebrew School at night. In the winter, it was dark – I never had any qualms about walking. 0 2522 Shirley's Education GE: Right. Tell us about your education. Where did you go to school?
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 ; SC: That’s what I was going to ask.
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 ; SB: My education- first I went to the school at 5th and Washington St.. It was called Garfield. At that time they told me I had the highest IQ of anyone in the school they had had. 
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 ; GE: Wow.
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 ; SB: So that was nice to hear as a youngster. Then we moved, and I went up to Raub Jr. High School. And then from there I went to Allentown High School. 0 2753 More Involvement in the Jewish Community SC: So can you talk a little bit about, were you involved in the community, the larger community, or the Jewish community?
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 ; SB: I was active, yes I was active as a young woman, I was active in Hadassah. I was on the board. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was the secretary for a number of years. Well, I wasn’t active at the- I was a life member at the Jewish Community Center. But I wasn’t active per se. And I was active with my own things, you know, my own friends and family.
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 ; SC: Right, you own life. How about Harry? Was he very active in either these organizations or professional organizations?
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 ; SB: Yes, he was.
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 ; GE: What was he involved in?
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 ; SB: He was part of the Jewish Federation, he was part of the different organizations- I can’t think of a name. 0 2887 Memories of Business Employees GE: [A]ny good memories that you have about his employees, at all? Any of the employees, local employees? First of all, how many? Do you know what was the size, how many workers there were?
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 ; SB: He had a big factory. See this is why I said, I didn’t think I could give you too much information.
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 ; GE: That’s okay.
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 ; SB: No, let me think. I would safely say that between the three different businesses that he owned, I would say that he hired maybe a couple thousand.
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 ; SC: Wow, that's big.
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 ; SB: Yeah, maybe more, but I don’t want to say more.
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 ; GE: Now when you say the three businesses, it’s the fabric-
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 ; SB: Yeah and then the two other factories.
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 ; GE: And then the two factories.
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 ; SB: Yeah so safely I would say maybe a couple thousand.
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 ; GE: That’s big. 0 2964 How Has Allentown Changed Since You Were Young? SC: Well, in your whole life, let's start with that. How has Allentown changed since you were young?
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 ; SB: How about what?
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 ; SC: Allentown has changed since you were young.
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 ; SB: Oh yes, of course. There’s so much more going on in Allentown now. So much more building. So many more businesses and organizations and growth in the city of Allentown. Even in the population, people have come here from New Jersey and New York. They come here to live, because it's better living for them. They come from New York and New Jersey, there is great growth here in Allentown.
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 ; SC: Is it a different climate than when you were a child?
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 ; SB: Yes it is. It’s a different climate like it is all over the world, unfortunately. And, more things happening here that shouldn’t be happening, but, there is good growth and there is also evil growth, which is throughout the world now unfortunately. 0 3063 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: So I have two really sort of filmy questions, just feeling questions, first of all what do you value in life most?
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 ; SB: What do I what?
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 ; SC: Value in life most.
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 ; SB: I value my family. That’s number one in my life. My friends, and I am blessed to have a wonderful family. Both my own personal family and my nieces, nephews, their families, and my own families, and also my wonderful friends, as well as terrific doctors who have kept me living, and to whom I really owe my life. And nurses, and I’m blessed to have them as my personal friends. I am. 0 3125 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative? SC: And what have you- has made you feel the most creative?
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 ; SB: Pardon?
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 ; SC: The most creative in your life.
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 ; SB: The most creative in my life. Well, my children are creative, in their own way, each one. I appreciate that in them, in each one. My oldest is in a videotaping business. 0 MovingImage Shirley Berman talks about growing up in Allentown. Her father’s ancestors (Malenovsky family) were among the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. Elias Malenovsky was a founder of the first synagogue in Allentown down on 2nd St. Later, Shirley married Harry Berman. Harry owned Fair-Tex Mills, one of the largest knitting mills in the U.S. and the first to use computerized textile machines. Shirley proudly shared that she accompanied her husband regularly on business trips throughout Europe and always enjoyed entertaining customers and vendors.
 ; An Interview with Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Shirley, may I ask what your full name is including your maiden name and when you were born. SHIRLEY BERMAN: Shirley Isabelle Malenovsky Berman, and I was born August 14, 1922 and I would like to say welcome to you two lovely ladies. SC: Well thank you. SB: It's nice to have you here in my home. SC: And a beautiful home, absolutely beautiful and beautiful tea that we just had. Where were you born? SB: I was born in the Sacred Heart Hospital in Allentown many, many years ago. I'm not going to tell you -- you can figure it out yourself. SC: Where did you live as a small child? SB: As a child, we lived on North 5th St. until we moved up to -- we went West. You know what they say, "go west young man" - well the young lady went West to 16th Street. GAIL EISENBERG: What year was that? Or how old were you? SB: I was about 12 or 13 so that would have been in '35-'34 in that area. SC: So when you were living on 5th Street in South Allentown, was there a Synagogue there? SB: Yes, there was the Congregation Sons of Israel at that time on North 6th Street, a couple of blocks from where we lived -- we lived on North 5th Street. SC: Is that building still there? SB: Yes it is, I think it became a Greek church at one time, I don't know if it still is, but possibly. It was a lovely building -- stone building. GE: And that building was at 6th and what? SB: 6th and Tilghman. SC: My husband and I drove to -- actually to one of our friend's fathers who passed away, and we drove in that area and he was trying to tell me what he remembered because he was born in Allentown--so we'll go back again and look for it. SB: We used to walk to the Temple from where we lived - it was just a couple of blocks. SC: When you moved to 16th Street, did the Synagogue relocate at that time? SB: No, the Synagogue at that time was a small, little building at about 12th or 13th -- I think it was Thirteenth & ; Walnut Street. As a matter of fact, my brother's bar mitzvah was the last bar mitzvah in that little synagogue. Then we moved up here to 17th and Hamilton Street, where they built Temple Beth El. SC: How about your parents, can you tell me as much as you can about them -- where they were born, where their families were from and where they lived. SB: My mother was from Burlington, Vermont. My father lived in Allentown and through a cousin of my father's, I believe it was -- in upstate New York State -- they met. That cousin arranged for my mother to come visit her so she could meet my father. Then through correspondence and telephone for a while, they corresponded and spoke to each other and eventually they got together and got married. My mother moved to Allentown and lived for a while until they established themselves and bought a home on North Fifth Street. They lived with my grandparents -- my father's parents, who were from Russia. They were a dear couple, very sweet. My grandfather, as a matter of fact, Elias Malenovsky, was one of the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. He established a little synagogue down on 2nd Street - he and a man by the name of Mr. Senderowitz -- the two first Jewish settlers in Allentown. SC: So that's the Malenovsky family that is also related to Sheftel? SB: Sheftel was my aunt, who was my father's sister's husband. Eventually my father and Mr. Sheftel went into business together. Sheftel, I understand, had a truck. SC: We have a picture of it. GE: That was their first truck. SB: That was an inducement for my father to start a business along those lines. What happened was, with the business, was that my grandfather was known as a peddler. He had a horse and a wagon. In those days there were lots of peddlers going around the neighborhoods. He traveled from Allentown all the way up to Slatington picking up whatever he could buy at the time, whether it was clothes, fruit, watermelons, or junk or odds-n-ends, whatever he could put his hands on and then he would sell it for a couple more cents, in those days -- no big deal -- there was no General Motors at the time. Anyhow, my father went to school until he was in the 8th grade and then he went out peddling with his father. One day my grandmother (my father's mother) said to him, I just found this out, as a matter of fact, today, my brother was over here and gave me this information -- she said to him, "Why don't you go to factories and pick up the little scraps that they get rid of and you can sell it to other places -- like paper mills." There were a lot of places - I've written down here -- where they sold it to. They sold it to paper mills, to roofing companies (they used in the shingles), the paper companies used in the paper, the government used it in money -- my brother gave me this information to me today--I can't read my own writing--stationery companies and I have to get my glasses, can you read that at the bottom? SC: Wiping rags? SB: Oh yes, wiping rags -- that's how he started his business and it got to be a rather large business. When my father passed away, then Sheftel passed away -- within six weeks of each other. Sheftel's children took it over and now I think it's in the hands of the grandchildren. Right? GE: I think so. SC: Do you know any of the other names in your family -- your mother's family or your father's mother's family? Any of the other surnames? GE: In other words, we already know about Malenovsky-- SB: You mean like my father had a brother? SC: Your mother's mother's name? SB: My mother's name was Flax. That grandfather of mine was a Reverend. He was a mohel and he wrote and he was also a shochet. GE: Oh, he did with the slaughtering. SB: He did different things for the Temple. For example, for the graves at the cemeteries you had to take out certain papers and printing and everything - like for the -- oh what's it called? SC: Engraving? Or the stone work to put the names on. SB: Yes, he did that. Also on my father's side, my grandfather -- that other grandfather and my uncle, who was my father's brother, did that for the cemeteries and for the people who made the monuments. They wrote for the two families. GE: So the Flax family -- they were in Vermont. Do you know where they were prior to Vermont? SB: No, I don't know. GE: Around, let's say for instance, your grandparents lived in Vermont, how about their parents? Do you know if their parents did? SB: I never knew their parents and their parents weren't in Vermont. Their parents were from Russia. GE: Do you know if the family came from Russia? Poland? SB: I don't know exactly. I should have asked my brother. My brother could probably give you that information -- I'll give you his name and telephone number. GE: That would be good. SC: We could fill in then. GE: How about your father's family, let's say for instance the Malenovskys? SB: They also came from Russia. I think-- I'm almost certain--. GE: Both of them sound like they came fairly early -- more like the 1870's -- not 1900 or even earlier. SB: It might be a little early possibly. SC: Do you know where in Vermont they lived? SB: In Burlington. SC: They went right to Burlington? SB: No, I just thought of the place my cousin was -- that introduced my parents -- Glenn Falls, New York. They lived there for a while -- the Flax family. SC: Burlington is also an interesting city for people to go to. SB: The University of Vermont is there -- it's a good medical school, a fine medical school. SC: And, there was industry there, I believe, earlier. SB: Industry? I don't know--.maple syrup?!? GE: They started out at Glenn Falls, do you know why they went to Burlington? SB: Maybe he was offered a job there -- in the Shul. SC: Right, because he was a mohel? SB: He started the one shul there, too. GE: And how about the Malenovsky family -- where your grandfather was a peddler, do you know what brought them to Allentown? SB: I don't really know -- sorry I can't help you out there. My grandmother had a sister living here -- that motivated her -- by the name of Becker -- the Becker family -- that could have been part of it -- I don't know. They were in the meat business, the Becker boys. GE: Were they butchers or meat processors? SB: I don't know. My brother could help you more with that information. SC: And, also I could look some of this up on Ancestry.com -- you can look up names. SB: If you ask my brother, he could help you out with some of it. SC: So the Becker brothers would be at the turn of the century? SB: Probably. SC: We have to say what century, anymore! GE: Of the early 20th century. It sounds like the family was in Allentown by 1870's and so if that brought them there--. SC: Can we talk a little bit about your husband's family? SB: Sure, My husband was in the army and when he got out of the army, he had worked before for a company in New Jersey somewhere. He and his brother worked for a company. GE: What was his brother's name? SB: Rubin. GE: So it's Harry and Rubin. SB: I'll tell you, Harry was the whole business, Rubin liked to think he was, but don't put that down! SC: That's fine. GE: And I assume when you said they were in the army, it was that during WWII. SB: Right, we're not that old! GE: Just double checking! You're the same age as my parents. And, they grew up in New Jersey? SB: No, they grew up in New York. GE: New York City? SB: They were in New York City for a while. I don't know if they were in Brooklyn so put down New York City. GE: And then they moved to New Jersey? SB: Well, no he used to go by ferry to New Jersey. GE: Okay, he just worked in New Jersey. The two brothers together worked in New Jersey. SC: And they were Rubin and Harry Berman -- so we could look that up, too. SB: In between he went into the army for four years. They worked together for a while for a company in New Jersey. Then when he got out of the army, he moved to Catasauqua. He had a dying -- a knitting and dying - small place in Catasauqua. GE: Was that a place that he owned, was that a place that he worked at? SB: I don't know if he owned it. I don't know, I can't tell you that. SC: Again, we could look that up. SB: He probably owned it. Anyhow, after that, he was there for a couple years, he built this very large factory on 309 near Emmaus, outside of Emmaus - A knitting and dyeing factory -- both -- everything under one roof. SC: Do you know the address of that -- the factory -- what street it was on. SB: I don't know the name of it -- Emaus Avenue. GE: And the name is Fair-Tex? SB: The name was Fair-Tex Mills. Then they went on the stock exchange after a few years. What else do you want to know? SC: Do you know anything about Harry's family? Where they came from? What they did? SB: They came from Russia, too. GE: Were their parents from Russia? SB: Yes. GE: So they were first generation, Harry & ; Rubin - their parents were from Russia. SC: Do you know anything about the education of any of the people we talked about? SB: My mother was a teacher. She taught in a school where they taught first to sixth grade. She used to come by horse and buggy, then she took a trolley -- she went about ten different ways to get to school. SC: Do you know where the school was? SB: Outside of Burlington somewhere. SC: So before she was married she taught. GE: I don't have your parent's names. SB: My mother's name? GE: Yes. SB: Lillian Rachel Flax Malenovsky. GE: So she went to college? SB: She didn't go to college. In those days she didn't go to college. GE: But she graduated high school? SB: Yes and got her teaching - whatever it was. GE: Certificate probably. SC: For normal school perhaps. GE: And what was your father's name? SB: Jacob Harry Malenovsky. He went to eighth grade, period. SC: So many people did. SB: But he was very bright. GE: Absolutely! SC: So after you and Harry were married, did you become involved in the business at all? SB: I was involved in the sense that we socialized with his customers and a lot of them didn't want Harry to come without me. We always traveled together, we went to Europe -- all over together. We went to Europe a couple of times a year. A lot of his business was in Europe. GE: When you say his business was in Europe do you mean customers? SB: No, he bought machines over there, equipment, and we became close friends with the people we did business with. As a matter of fact, we were the only customers who were invited to their homes. We had wonderful times with these people. Unfortunately all of them are dead now -- every one of them, but they were wonderful people. SC: Did you entertain them also? SB: Yes, I did. Some of them came here to my house and they liked it. I had a lovely house. SC: 3363 Trexler Boulevard -- at the corner of 34th and Trexler. A beautiful house at one time. As a matter of fact, it was on television. GE: When did you and Harry marry? SB: 1962. GE: And he passed away--.. SB: We were married for 45 years. SC: Is that a wedding picture in the cabinet? SB: No, that's my son. SC: Oh, that's your son -- oh that's how young you look! SB: I have pictures of us, but not wedding pictures -- I will show you sometime. SC: Can you explain what you know of the business process? SB: He had the first computerized textile machine in the country. The machines were computerized and he could design on the machine itself. He had one of the largest textile businesses in the country, until knitting started to decline. Then fortunately he got out in time and we enjoyed the rest of our lives together as much as we could. SC: What year did he get out of it? SB: He was probably close to 65. He was born in 1918. GE: So that would be early '82-'83. SC: So he was in a good, long time. SB: Yes, most of his life. SC: As far as the business, when you said he had the first computerized designing, was he designing clothing at that time? SB: He had women that designed for him -- designers. SC: So he wasn't a contractor necessarily in the end to New York manufacturers, he was a producer, he was a manufacturer. SB: Of fabric - basically. And he had other factories where he manufactured garments. He bought a place in western Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh where they made ladies shirts. He bought his friend's factory -- it used to be Mort Levy's factory -- called Strong Wear Pants -- in Easton. GE: Was the fabrics the large part of the business? SB: Yes. That was the business! GE: So the main thing was the fabrics--.. SB: Manufacturing knitted goods which he made for swimming suit factories, ladies and men's underwear factories, clothing factories -- where they used knit goods, not woven. GE: Tell me the difference? SB: See, this is a knit -- that's woven SC: And this is cotton knit. SB: That's a different kind of knit than he made, I forgot what you call it. SC: Double knit? SB: No double knits, he had double knits. There is a name for it -- it's not like this kind of knit. GE: His customers -- were often the local factories in town - who were making the clothes. SB: Not necessarily. GE: His customers were all over the world. He was one of the large knit fabric producers. SB: Exactly, he had factories all over. SC: But he did own factories that produced finished goods. SB: He had a couple smaller factories that produced. But that wasn't his main business - It was knitting and dying. He knitted the fabric and then dyed it to the color that he wanted. He had his own dying right there. SC: And did his designers then design fabric that had different patterns to it? SB: Right. SC: He was an entrepreneur. SB: Yes he was. There were things used for bathing suits that would have been different from underwear or dresses or for children's things. SC: Do you have any stories about the people you met all over the world who were his customers? SB: From whom he bought his machines -- and customers. We used to go out to California a couple times a year and meet with his people out there -- he had people out there -- he had salesmen out there, and also customers out there. We had good times. SC: Does anything stand out in your mind--any experience that you had when you were traveling? SB: We had wonderful conventions out in California, in Germany, in Italy -- machine shows -- in England. All over -- yes, these things all stand out -- we had wonderful times out there with the people from whom we bought the machines and with people who became our friends -- very close friends. GE: How about Harry's education? SB: He graduated from high school and then he went two years to night school -- night college. GE: Was that after the war on the G.I. Bill or was that before the war? SB: Well, he graduated high school before the war. GE: Right, but how about college? SB: It could have been after. He went to a school for design -- I forget what you call it. GE: Like -- I know in Philadelphia -- there is the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science. SC: What was your husband's business philosophy? Did he have certain ideas that he talked about? SB: He was fair, very honest in his business. GE: When you say he was fair and honest, are you saying with his suppliers, customers, employees? SB: With everyone. One time he made a deal with someone -- I don't know what happened, but it would have meant that if he went through with it, he would have lost a lot of money. And he did -- because he gave his word. I can't give you the exact details about the deal, but he did go ahead and made good on what he said. He was very honest and fair with business. SC: Did you have any conversations about his business? SB: No, I didn't, I didn't mix into his business very much. I was there when he needed me, and I was helpful. We had some transactions in Paris, and my husband didn't speak French. I took French in school, and we weren't allowed to speak English. That was years ago when I was in college. I hadn't spoken French in years and years, but it came back to me little by little when we went to France. I did help him as much as I could along those lines because he didn't know a word of French. And it did work out fine, we did culminate the deal and that was it. GE: I don't think we had a chance to talk much about your experience growing up in Allentown. Tell us a little bit about you and your family - when you were a young girl, what the Jewish community was like, what the larger Allentown community was like. SB: Well, I'll tell you, I had a very good childhood. I had two wonderful parents. I had two wonderful sisters and an adorable brother. I had a very nice life as a child. In those days you didn't have to be afraid to go out at night. GE: Excuse me, you were the oldest? SB: I'm the oldest. And, it was a nice life, you didn't have to be afraid. It was a clean life. We always had a good time. As children, my parents would take us every summer to Burlington. We rented a cottage on Lake Champlain. My mother's family was there, so we had great times. Her family would always come to be with us at the bay, which is right outside of Burlington, Malletts Bay, right on the lake. GE: How long did you stay there? Was it for a week, a month? SB: No, that was for the summer. My father would take us up. In those days going to Burlington was like going to Europe today. It took us two to three days to get there. We'd stay in those little cabins -- he would take us and come back six weeks later and then another trip to take us home. So we had a wonderful time, it was right on the lake. We made friends. There were a lot of Canadian people coming down from Montreal. We made lots of friends and had a very wonderful childhood. SC: Can you spell the town that you stayed at outside of Burlington? SB: Malletts Bay SC: Can you spell that? SB: M-A-L-L-E-T-T-S B-A-Y. GE: No, I didn't spell that right. SB: It was about from here to New York to go to Montreal. So we'd go up there during the summer and spend a day in Montreal, usually, and took little trips around Burlington. We had fun, we had lots of fun. GE: And your father's business managed to stay okay during the Depression? SB: They managed -- they managed to be fine -- they wound up good. We never realized how good they were -- we were never told as children their situation. We were just happy for them. I had good parents. It wasn't like today, we didn't have the problems that we have today -- none of the problems with any of our children. It was a good life, a simple life, my parents never spoiled us, and I never realized the position they were in until after my father passed away. We enjoyed what we had. My father was in contact with all of the factories. As children, he'd bring us shoes, he'd bring us different things from different factories. It was a big deal. We'd get new shoes for Passover, new shoes for Rosh Hashanah and new shoes for other times, and we were thrilled. When I gave up my shoes, they looked new because we had an appreciation in those days. Today the children have everything and don't appreciate anything. To this day, I have lots of shoes -- maybe three hundred pairs. My husband used to call me an elf! But, every pair of shoes is like the day I got them almost, except the heels from driving. It was a different way of life, it really was. SC: When you were a child did you play mostly with kids in the neighborhood, or did you have more connections to the Jewish community? SB: I used to walk, when we lived on 5th Street - I used to go to Hebrew School. I used to walk myself coming home at night -- I don't know if you know Allentown -- from Fifth Street, the north end -- we lived below Washington on Fifth. I walked from there all the way to Sixth and Chew -- this would be where the Jewish Community Center was -- myself to go to Hebrew School at night. In the winter, it was dark -- I never had any qualms about walking. Sometimes, my mother, if she could, would meet me partway. If she couldn't, sometimes my Hebrew teacher, I can't remember her name, a lovely lady, she'd walk me partway. Anyway, I never gave it a thought -- who'd walk today? What little child would walk today? GE: I don't know if they can't or if we don't let them. But, whatever it is. SB: It's not safe. GE: You're absolutely right. You mentioned that your family at that time belonged to Sons of Israel and then when you moved you belonged to Temple Beth El. Why did you change? SB: I guess for convenience. GE: That's what I was wondering. And at that time tell me a little bit about the Jewish community -- the size of the community, the cohesiveness -- what it was like, where did everyone live? When you were a young girl, were there a lot of Jewish families? SB: Yes, there were. GE: And then when you moved to 16th Street? SB: I'll tell you, when we moved up to Beth El, we went to that little Temple on Walnut Street. Remember I told you. GE: Right, yes. SB: And of course there weren't that many people. And the whole Temple was, I don't think it was bigger than this room here. That was as a Temple really, so if all the people came, maybe they filled it. But that wasn't that many people. Then of course as we kept going to Beth El on 17th and Hamilton, it kept growing and growing. And that's why we thought- my nephew is the one by the way- is the one who was instrumental in building the new Temple. Beautiful isn't it? GE: Yes, yes. SB: Have you been in it? SC: I've seen pictures and we've been by it. SB: But you weren't in it? SC: No, I wasn't in it. GE: I'll take you over to see it. SB: You have to go over. SC: Yes, yes. SB: So, then it grew of course. GE: Right. SB: And we did, we went to Temple. In the beginning when we were younger of course we went with my parents. And then, of course I've been going all my life to Beth El. I stayed with Beth El. And now I don't go that much. I've lost some enthusiasm to go, but I go for the holidays, you know. GE: Right. SB: And I'll always go, I went to Temple. And we went to the Center as young people, I went more when the Jewish Community Center was on 6th and Chew. I went there more. I was younger then, and I was more active in different things. But I'm not that active in the center, I'm a life member of the Temple of Hadassah of Beth El. But now I don't go that much. SC: Was the building of Beth El at 6th and Chew, that isn't where Union Baptist Church is now? SB: Union Baptist Church? SC: Yeah, it would be the Community Center if you are standing at 6th and Chew at the Community Center. SB: 6th and Chew? Are you talking about the old Community Center? You mean the Church across the street? SC: Yeah. SB: Yeah it was there. SC: That was it. SB: Yeah it was there. GE: No, that was the old Center? In other words, the JCC is not the same building. It was already there. SC: Oh that church, that was already there. SB: Yeah I think so, I don't know. SC: We keep trying to figure out where the synagogue was at 6th and Chew. SB: Oh no the synagogue wasn't. SC: Just the JCC was there. SB: Yeah. SC: Oh. SB: The synagogue was at 6th and Tilghman. SC: Tilghman, okay. SB: Down, going north. SC: Okay, yes, going north. SB: Quite a few blocks. SC: Oh okay. SB: Yeah. GE: I'll drive down with you. I'm curious myself. SC: Yeah we have to figure that out. GE: Because when I came to town already it was at 17th and Hamilton and the JCC was at 22nd and Tilghman. SB: Right. Now they are trying to sell the Jewish Community Center. SC: Again, yeah. SB: That's a shame, I'm sad to see that go. SC: Yeah. SB: What's going to be there? Do you know? GE: Well if they are able to sell it, the idea is that they are going to move further west. SB: They are going to move, really? GE: Yeah, because it's already a 60 year old building so you know it really starts showing its age. SB: Yeah. The thing is they always do everything, when they are doing the Temple or they are doing something else. And people don't have the money for everything. You know what I mean? GE: Right, right. SB: It's not good timing. GE: Right. Tell us about your education. Where did you go to school? SC: That's what I was going to ask. SB: My education- first I went to the school at 5th and Washington St.. It was called Garfield. At that time they told me I had the highest IQ of anyone in the school they had had. GE: Wow. SB: So that was nice to hear as a youngster. Then we moved, and I went up to Raub Jr. High School. And then from there I went to Allentown High School. GE: And I'm assuming you were, were you a very good student? SB: National Honor, yeah. SC: Right. SB: From there I went to Cedar Crest College on a full scholarship, and I was given something that nobody ever heard of. I was given unlimited cuts. So every Monday I wasn't in school. I was engaged at the time, so after I don't know how long, they took it away from me. I left school, listen to this, in my senior year, to go with my husband at the time. He was going overseas so I went to work in Maryland at the- whats the name of the place- GE: But you went overseas? SB: No, I didn't go overseas. I went with him first to the improving ground. And I worked as a secretary to a colonel there. I left school in my senior year. I left college, Dean's honor list, and National Honor. I had one semester to finish. I broke my parents' heart, I realized, but I wanted to badly be with my husband. And I never went back to school, because first of all, when I could have after that, I became pregnant with children and this and that. Three children. And when I could have, they had discontinued my course, for one thing. And, already I didn't have the patience really. You lose it, you get out of the swing of it and it's difficult to get back. GE: Sure. What were you studying? SB: I majored in psychology. I wanted to be a doctor, actually. And I also took a business course. And then after my husband was overseas for four years, I was secretary to a colonel here at - what's the name of the place- Consolidated Vultee, where they made the airplanes. SC: Ah, yes. SB: I was secretary to a colonel, I was secretary to a group called Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh-- three consultants. GE: Is this now back in Allentown? SB: Yes, Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh, until they wanted to date me, and I was already engaged and married. I left them. Then I was secretary at the Bethlehem Jewish Community Center in charge of the office. And then at that time, I think my husband came home. SC: So can you talk a little bit about, were you involved in the community, the larger community, or the Jewish community? SB: I was active, yes I was active as a young woman, I was active in Hadassah. I was on the board. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was the secretary for a number of years. Well, I wasn't active at the- I was a life member at the Jewish Community Center. But I wasn't active per se. And I was active with my own things, you know, my own friends and family. SC: Right, you own life. How about Harry? Was he very active in either these organizations or professional organizations? SB: Yes, he was. GE: What was he involved in? SB: He was part of the Jewish Federation, he was part of the different organizations- I can't think of a name. GE: Like Rotary or any of those? SB: No, I don't think Rotary. GE: Like the Chamber of Commerce? SB: Yes, the Chamber of Commerce. I don't know, I'm trying to think of what else he was active in. SC: Was he active in politics? Any of the political elements of the Lehigh Valley? SB: No, not politics. GE: How about the association? Any kind of association, like fabric. You know, a manufacturers association? SB: Yeah, I think he was, but I couldn't tell you the names of organizations. That I can't. GE: Okay. And also it sounds like you had a very nice - SB: Social life. We had a very nice social life. GE: Yes. SB: That we did, with friends and family. GE: Right, right. SC: So do you have any other questions? GE: You know what, I'm just looking. Um, anything, any good memories that you have about his employees, at all? Any of the employees, local employees? First of all, how many? Do you know what was the size, how many workers there were? SB: He had a big factory. See this is why I said, I didn't think I could give you too much information. GE: That's okay. SB: No, let me think. I would safely say that between the three different businesses that he owned, I would say that he hired maybe a couple thousand. SC: Wow, that's big. SB: Yeah, maybe more, but I don't want to say more. GE: Now when you say the three businesses, it's the fabric- SB: Yeah and then the two other factories. GE: And then the two factories. SB: Yeah so safely I would say maybe a couple thousand. GE: That's big. SC: So how has Allentown changed in your life and since the end of manufacturing, do you think? SB: It's a big change in my life. Well, you mean the end of his business when he got out of business? SC: Well, in your whole life, let's start with that. How has Allentown changed since you were young? SB: How about what? SC: Allentown has changed since you were young. SB: Oh yes, of course. There's so much more going on in Allentown now. So much more building. So many more businesses and organizations and growth in the city of Allentown. Even in the population, people have come here from New Jersey and New York. They come here to live, because it's better living for them. They come from New York and New Jersey, there is great growth here in Allentown. SC: Is it a different climate than when you were a child? SB: Yes it is. It's a different climate like it is all over the world, unfortunately. And, more things happening here that shouldn't be happening, but, there is good growth and there is also evil growth, which is throughout the world now unfortunately. How about a piece of chocolate, in between? SC: *laughs* GE: *laughs* SC: And how about with the needle trades and textiles leaving Allentown, going down south first, and then going overseas? Do you think that has had an effect on people? SB: Definitely, yeah, sure, a lot of people lost their jobs, or had to move out of town because of it. Or, in general their life changed, certainly. SC: So I have two really sort of filmy questions, just feeling questions, first of all what do you value in life most? SB: What do I what? SC: Value in life most. SB: I value my family. That's number one in my life. My friends, and I am blessed to have a wonderful family. Both my own personal family and my nieces, nephews, their families, and my own families, and also my wonderful friends, as well as terrific doctors who have kept me living, and to whom I really owe my life. And nurses, and I'm blessed to have them as my personal friends. I am. GE: That's nice. SC: And what have you- has made you feel the most creative? SB: Pardon? SC: The most creative in your life. SB: The most creative in my life. Well, my children are creative, in their own way, each one. I appreciate that in them, in each one. My oldest is in a videotaping business. *the electricity goes out* SB: What's that? GE: I don't- maybe is that camera still going? SB: Huh? GE: You know what, it's raining and it sounds like we're getting a little bit of a storm. SB: That's probably what it is. GE: Yeah. SB: What was I saying? GE/SC: Your children being creative. SB: Yeah, my oldest son is in the videotaping, has a nice videotaping. He's been on the radio since he was ten years old. And he's followed through with a videotaping business. GE: Right. SB: He doesn't do it himself so much anymore, but he did. GE: Right, what kind of videos does he- SB: Well, for instance if you have a wedding, a bar mitzvah, a party, he'll do that. GE: Right, okay yes, yes. SC: So we could have had him here today doing the videotaping. SB: Yes. SC: He could have done the videotaping. SB: And my second son is a um- no that word always escapes me- he's a-uh he advises. GE: A consultant? SB: Consultant. GE: Right, okay. SB: That word, I don't know why, I have a mental block. He's a consultant for medical companies, the government, the state, he does that. My youngest son works for a jet propulsion lab. They are the ones affiliated with setting up the rockets. And they are also affiliated with the University of- I think it is Southern California or California- and he is a lawyer. He is in their legal department. GE: So wonderful. SB: So they're each creative in their own way. My husband was very creative. GE: Right. And in SB: And- GE: What ways have you been creative? What makes you feel most creative? SB: What makes me creative? Having children- *electricity goes out* SB: Oh my gosh, look at that. Having children. Oh my gosh. GE: So being a mom. SC: Okay, it just went off for a second. SB: And I like to write. SC: Write? SB: I do, I write. And uh, GE: Tell us what kind of writing do you do? SB: Well just, uh, personal. GE: Like a journal? SB: No. GE: Or letters? SB: Letters, and for occasions, and things like that. GE: Oh, isn't that lovely. SB: I just wrote a letter for Lisa. GE: Oh. SB: For her, you know she had a granddaughter. GE: Oh. SB: For the naming. GE: Isn't that beautiful. SB: Named after Perry, my sister. GE: You know what, I did hear that, that her oldest son had that, is that correct? SB: Yeah. GE: Isn't that nice. SB: Yeah they had a baby, but whatever. SC: And I say creative, but in a sense, what has made you feel most satisfied in your life other than your children? SB: Well, my marriage was good, up to a point. And, oh what can I tell you. I'm just satisfied with my life. I have a positive attitude and I'm just happy to be here. And I feel there's so much good you can get out of life if you look for it, even though there are adversities in everybody's life, for sure. And, I'm happy with what's going on. I have to overcome certain adversities, but I'm happy. GE: Beautiful. SC: Thank you so much. SB: Thank you for being with me. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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00:56:18
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Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013
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Shirley Berman talks about growing up in Allentown. Her father’s ancestors (Malenovsky family) were among the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. Elias Malenovsky was a founder of the first synagogue in Allentown down on 2nd St. Later, Shirley married Harry Berman. Harry owned Fair-Tex Mills, one of the largest knitting mills in the U.S. and the first to use computerized textile machines. Shirley proudly shared that she accompanied her husband regularly on business trips throughout Europe and always enjoyed entertaining customers and vendors.
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LVTNT-32
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2013-05-24
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Leonard Abrams
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-35.xml
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5.4 August 21, 2012 Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012 LVTNT-35 01:25:37 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Leonard Abrams Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 AbramsLeonard_20210821.mp4 1.0:|19(13)|32(4)|55(2)|72(11)|95(2)|114(12)|131(14)|146(17)|163(11)|184(8)|203(7)|228(5)|251(15)|266(9)|279(4)|296(16)|309(4)|324(13)|341(7)|360(10)|377(5)|394(12)|421(2)|440(5)|459(10)|482(4)|493(12)|508(7)|521(3)|540(6)|565(3)|580(6)|599(11)|616(3)|633(4)|648(6)|663(15)|680(5)|691(15)|712(3)|725(4)|744(11)|765(3)|780(6)|799(15)|816(2)|831(7)|850(14)|869(12)|892(7)|905(10)|926(7)|951(3)|970(4)|989(6)|1010(15)|1033(7)|1052(13)|1083(3)|1100(11)|1121(6)|1136(15)|1157(5)|1172(16)|1185(15)|1206(2)|1225(12)|1242(7)|1259(12)|1276(11)|1295(13)|1318(4)|1339(4)|1364(9)|1387(5)|1400(13)|1421(11)|1438(7)|1455(5)|1470(14)|1487(7)|1508(14)|1529(12)|1548(9)|1565(4)|1580(9)|1591(14) 0 https://youtu.be/EtYnTJ1d6v4 YouTube video 0 Early Family History Susan Clemens-Bruder: Today is August 21, 2012. This interview is with Lenny Abrams, and interviewing is Susan Clemens-Bruder and Gail Eisenberg. So first of all, we’re going to take you back to your family, because it’s really important to show the context of the family and how you got here. So how much do you know about your family ; their names, where they lived, their education, as far back as you know?
 ; 0 409 Family History: 1930s-1940s My father initially got a job in a shirt factory, which was what was called a “spreader”- that was taking the cloth from the bolt and laying it on the table, ply, over ply, over ply, to enable to cut whatever garment it was. And it happened to have been men’s shirts. 0 1327 Unions and Wages SC: May I back you up for one second?
 ; 
 ; LA: Go right ahead.
 ; 
 ; SC: So in New York your dad’s company was a union.
 ; 
 ; LA: Yes.
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 ; SC: This would make sense. And in Pennsylvania he was going to become a union shop? 0 1687 Fair Business Practices GE: What would you say would be some of the practices that you had which demonstrate that you were fair employers, and tried to treat the employees fairly?
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 ; LA: There were many, many cases where there were voluntary wage increases that exceeded the union’s agreement. 0 1817 Business Practices (cont'd) SC: Today is August 21st, 2012. Interview, tape number two with Lenny Abrams. So you were talking about Izzie Weinstein.
 ; 
 ; LA: Yes. So Isador Weinstein had a factory in Northampton, Pennsylvania- Clyde Shirt Company. And they were friendly, and the phone would ring and my father would answer the phone, and it was Izzie Weinstein 0 2351 Online Ordering SC: So we’re going back to Paul Frederick, your brand, as online ordering started.
 ; 
 ; LA: Well it started off as a little brochure, a four or five page brochure- buy a white shirt made by the best fabric, the best make, and we advertised in the United States at that time. 0 2546 Manufacturing Insights SC: And where are they manufactured?
 ; 
 ; LA: Today, all are manufactured offshore. I would say we still do some manufacturing in Italy ; some of our ties are still made in Italy, and some of our clothing and trousers are made in Italy. We also make a few products in South America, but 90% of the product comes from the Far East. 0 3256 Relating Education to Real World SC: Do you think that because you did go to college for business, do you think that made a difference in the way you see the world?
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 ; LA: You know, I like to think it did because there were some basic principles in accounting- I was an accounting major- and certainly the knowledge of numbers and the ability to read a balance sheet properly, and the ability to read somebody else’s balance sheet. 0 3379 More Family History SC: So this is tape 3, interview with Lenny Abrams. Today is August 21, 2012. So maybe we could move back a little bit and talk about your mother’s family?
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 ; LA: Yes. I indicated that my mother was born in the United States. She was a year older than my father- born the year 1899.
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 ; GE: Her name was Sarah?
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 ; LA: Sarah Pomerantz. 0 3816 Jewish Community and Textiles GE: Why do you think, what is your understanding or your thoughts about why that was so common in the Jewish community-- as opposed to other communities?
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 ; LA: It’s an excellent question and of course if we today, if we were to think of your children and my children, well of course we stress education. We stress the desire of moving up the socio-economic ladder. That was certainly not the case with my maternal grandmother, nor was it the case with my paternal grandfather or grandmother. I have to believe that what it was, was the ability of people like my father and all the others to see that in those days the United States was truly a place where you could better yourself. 0 4232 Involvement in Community SC: Can we move to what you’ve done within the larger community?
 ; 
 ; LA: Sure. Certainly I’m a supporter of the causes throughout the community. I always had a special interest in supporting and being involved in the Jewish community. Early on I was a board member in the Jewish Community Center…
 ; 0 4528 Needle-Trade Contractors Leave the Area SC: And did you work with Arnold Delin in his association?
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 ; LA: No. Don’t forget Arnold Dellin’s association was to represent manufacturers that were controlled by the International Ladies Garment Workers’ Union. Arnold, or as I call him “Armold”-- because I know him very well-- Arnold had nothing to do with menswear.
 ; 
 ; SC: So you knew him as a friend, not involved with his association?
 ; 
 ; LA: Right. 0 4865 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative in Life? SC: I have two very filmy questions- getting deeper-into-things questions. The first one is: what has made you feel the most creative in life? 
 ; 
 ; LA: Creative?
 ; 
 ; SC: In the broadest sense ; artistic or creative?
 ; 
 ; LA: I’m not an especially creative or artistic person. My wife was very creative and artistic. I
 ; pride myself more in the ability to execute.
 ; 0 5079 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: What do you value most in life?
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 ; LA: I think- I always tell this to my daughter-- character. I often say to my daughter and my ex-son-in-law, if I interview somebody for a job, the most important thing to me, and I’ve learned that, is not do they have the knowledge and the capability right now to do this job. That’s secondary. Do they have character? Because you either have it or you don’t. 0 MovingImage Lenny Abrams talks about his father working in a men’s shirt factory, losing his job during the Great Depression, working as a Union Agent representing the workers in their quest for better pay and work conditions, and then opening his own factory years later making fine men’s shirts. Lenny Abram’s business is one of the few where three generations of owners retired: Lenny, his father, and his former son-in-law. Lenny’s son-in-law successfully adapted the business from contract manufacturing to direct marketing first by catalogue and, later, e-commerce. Interview with Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER:Today is August 21, 2012. This interview is with Lenny Abrams, and interviewing is Susan Clemens-Bruder and Gail Eisenberg. So first of all, we're going to take you back to your family, because it's really important to show the context of the family and how you got here. So how much do you know about your family ; their names, where they lived, their education, as far back as you know? LEONARD ABRAMS:I certainly will give you that. We'll start with the paternal side. My father, originally Joseph Abramowitz- as I was Lenny Abramowitz, and then Joseph Abrams- was born April 10, 1900, and died February 18th, 2006. So he came within 100 days of having lived in three different centuries. He arrived in this country, he was one of six children ; arrived in this country with, I believe, my grandfather and one sister first. That was then followed by a brother and a sister. And that was followed by my paternal grandmother and two other sisters. There were four sisters and two brothers. He arrived in this country somewhere around 1911 at the age of 11. GAIL EISENBERG:From what country? LA:Poland. GE:Do you know where in Poland? LA:No. I should, but I don't remember what city. Whatever area in Poland it was today it is probably a part of Russia. GE:Right, or Lithuania? LA:Or Lithuania. And so my father had to struggle for an education because he was expected at a very early age to go out and help support the family. And he fought very hard to get as much of an education. He had told me he had persuaded on one occasion my paternal grandfather to listen to a male first cousin of his, who had suggested that why not go to school for another year? So he managed to get through the 6th or 7th grade. Never spoke with an accent, although he was 11. You could not detect that he was not born in the United States. GE:So he only went to the 6th grade here in the States? LA:Yes. He was very much self-educated. He read, I still remember, that as a young boy he thought so highly of Eleanor Roosevelt that when I delivered a eulogy for my father, I said that he just had this passion for Eleanor Roosevelt. If one would know anything of Eleanor Roosevelt, she was not the most attractive woman that had ever crossed. And yet he admired her. And I think one of the reasons he did, and I'm not going to use names in this. Roosevelt was elected in 1932. Shortly after his election, there was something going on in this area and lots of other areas throughout the country, but especially in the textile business, which was known as white slavery. Have either of you heard of white slavery? SC:[No response] GE:[No response] LA:White slavery was, after all, the country was in the Depression. Women probably for the first time had to go out into the world to try to obtain jobs. And it was very, very, difficult, and there were some textile owners who used the occasion of women really pleading for jobs, especially in the textile industry which was 90 to 95 percent female. Women came in for a job. There's a room over there, you go inside the room, you get undressed, and I'll be there shortly. That became known as white slavery. Eleanor Roosevelt personally campaigned after FDR was elected. I wouldn't say a lot of it, but some of it occurred right here in the Lehigh Valley. SC:Where were they living by the way? Were they living in the Lehigh Valley or New York? LA:No, no. My father and mother- my mother was born in the United States of America. Her father died when he was in his early 30s. Also six children. Live poultry market, kosher-killed chickens. I used to kid my mother, may she rest in peace. I would say, is it true mom that in the 1916 Olympics you beat this big Russian lady in chicken plucking? "No it's not true Lenny!" My mother was a year older than my father, so she was born in 1899. My father, probably one of his initial jobs-- GE:What was your mother's name? LA:Sarah, maiden name-- Sarah Pomerantz. My father initially got a job in a shirt factory, which was what was called a "spreader"- that was taking the cloth from the bolt and laying it on the table, ply, over ply, over ply, to enable to cut whatever garment it was. And it happened to have been men's shirts. Then in the early '30s- I was born in 1931- at about the time I was born, and I remember this from later conversations that had occurred, the economy was terrible and my father had lost his job. I was just born, and for about seven or eight months until he landed another job, he would get dressed every morning and leave the house, and my mother never knew that he was out of work. And then he was still unable to get work, so he took a job as a business agent for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union. And when we go back in time, there were two unions that controlled the textile industry. One was the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union, which geared itself to the menswear industry. The other was the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, which geared itself to the women's clothing industry. At some point, 20 or 25 years ago, they joined forces, and undoubtedly were forced to because of dropping membership roles as products went offshore. So they joined forces and became what is today known as UNITE- Union of NeedleTrades, Industrial, and Textile Employees. So my father took a job as a business agent for the Union. GE:What does that mean? What did he do? LA:He represented the employees in negotiations, grievances, wage increases, better working conditions, etc. And there was a man out here- we arrived here in 1955. I'll jump ahead for a moment and then I'll go back. We arrived here in 1955. SC:Where did you come from? LA:New York City. My father had a shirt factory in Brooklyn, New York. Scholes Street which was right near the Williamsburg Bridge, and right near I remember a kosher dairy restaurant. The name escapes me. But when we got here in 1955 there was a man that had been out here since the mid '30s, working for somebody else. The man's name was Mac Jacoby. Mac Jacobee was a grandfather to Ronnie kahan, if that name means anything. GE:I do know Ronnie kahan. LA:Ronnie kahan's mother is Sadelle kahan. Of course his name was Mac Jacoby. I knew Sadelle's daughter very well. When we came here in 1955, this Mac Jacoby called my father, and he remembered that in 1935 or 1936 my father had said, "Mac, we're going to have to send you out to Pennsylvania. There are no jobs that we can find for you in New York. But I promise you that in a year or two things will get better in New York, and I'll call you back." So when we arrived in 1955 I was just out of the Army. My father got a call from Mac Jacoby- "Joe, I'm still waiting for your call! It's 1955, you told me at the end of 1935 or early 1936 that you would be calling me within a few months. You have to bring me back to New York!" This was very funny. Alright, now we will go back to where we were. GE:Just take us a second back. Your father was a business agent for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union. And about when was that? LA:That was probably from about 1931 to 1937 or 1938. GE:Ok, so he did it for that long. LA:Yeah, he did it for that long. GE:And one thing is I assume, therefore, he really understood that side of it? LA:He really understood both sides. For a guy without an education he was extremely bright. SC:And when he started working, and he worked in the factories, do you know what factory he worked for? LA:No, no, I don't. SC:But that would've been in Brooklyn also? LA:Well, it would've been in Manhattan probably. There were these small factories that dotted all of Manhattan and Brooklyn, and even later Queens was a spot for many of them. So then my father went back to work, probably in 1937. He was what was called a "Marker." That was the highest position in the cutting process. The process of cutting the shirts, which was laying the patterns out to enable one to get maximum utilization of fabric per unit. That was the highest paid position in the cutting department. SC:And in 1937 of course there was another recession. That was in 1937 to 1938, so that makes sense. LA:Yes. And then he probably saved- I knew my father was saving money because my parents were saving money to go to business. I knew my parents very rarely argued, but I could remember it was probably 1939 or 1940. I must have been just nine or ten years old. I could remember a huge dispute. Why? My mother went out and bought an oval dinette table, which was $62. She could've purchased a rectangular dinette table for $44. So I remember vividly the $18 difference was the crux of the dispute. My father was saving money, and then in 1944 I think he went into business for the first time in Brooklyn, New York. I had no interest as a kid growing up ; later on maybe in 1946 or 1947, I guess I showed a little interest. GE:How many siblings do you have? LA:None, I am an only child. SC:And did he work for the War Effort at all? Was he making anything in 1944? LA:I don't know if he was. I know he worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard during World War I-- going back to 1916, 1917, and 1918. But I really don't know. I don't think so. GE:And what business was he in-- men's shirts? LA:He was in men's shirts. He was referred to as a "Contractor of Men's Shirts." What does the word "Contractor of Men's Shirts" mean? The definition is really this: the finished product was sold to stores by somebody called a manufacturer ; a shirt manufacturer. Well, shirt manufacturers had design people and sales people, but most of them really did not have production facilities. So they purchased the fabric. The shirt contractor provided the labor to turn the purchased fabric into finished products. And that little niche was referred to as the contractor. So he was a shirt contractor in Brooklyn, New York from around 1945. I went to college at the New York University School of Commerce, which today is the Stern School of Business. And of course one of the reasons was-- I was accepted into Wharton and would have very much liked to have gone there-- but that would have necessitated living away from home. This was out of the question because it was too expensive. So I went to New York University, and I think I got an excellent education. About that period of time, between 1948 and 1952, when I was at New York University, my father had expressed the thought to me that it was becoming more and more difficult to operate in Brooklyn, New York. Labor costs were rising- the same thing which occurred here in the last 25 years, occurred then in New York. Young women much preferred, even if the pay was somewhat less, to be a receptionist in a dental office. You know, I wear a dress, a skirt, or blouse to work every day-- I don't operate a sewing machine. So, at that time already this was becoming more and more evident in New York. During the time that I was at NYU from 1948 to 1952, my father would express the desire to me on several occasions that the time was coming that he would no longer be able to operate. And then he sort of decided that as soon as I graduated college in'52-- the Korean War was on, and I was drafted almost immediately. I graduated college in June, and I was drafted in November. So he waited until I was out of the service, which was 1954. I was married in 1953. My wife passed away- it will be three years in October. So he waited actually until I got out of the service in 1954, and we started looking around and we located in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania. GE:And where is Fleetwood? LA:Fleetwood is a little past Kutztown and on the way to Reading. Fleetwood, Pennsylvania is probably best known for the fact that in the early 20th century, the Fleetwood Cadillac was produced in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania- it still bears the name Fleetwood body for the Cadillac. In Fleetwood, Pennsylvania there was a factory which was owned by Arrow Shirt, which was Cleutt Peabody & ; Company, the largest shirt manufacturer in the United States. And it was one of their smaller facilities. And at that time they were ridding themselves of any facility which produced less than 10,000 dozen a week. They were getting rid of any facility that produced less than 120,000 garments of finished shirts a week. So that became available. And of course the union, although they would've preferred that he remained in New York, the union in New York, or the New York Local, was cooperative with the Pennsylvania Local because it was a foregone conclusion that if you were going to go to Pennsylvania, it was going to have to be as a union shop. So the New York Local and the Pennsylvania Local worked hand-in-hand to try to find a place out in Pennsylvania. Because it was apparent that it was much better if you could find a place in Pennsylvania for Joe Abrams to manufacture shirts in, than if he would have suddenly on his own go to Tennessee or South Carolina, or someplace in the South, which was non-union. SC:May I back you up for one second? LA:Go right ahead. SC:So in New York your dad's company was a union. LA:Yes. SC:This would make sense. And in Pennsylvania he was going to become a union shop? LA:Yes, exactly. It was predetermined that if he was part of the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union- Jacob Potofsky the President, I still remember- that moving to Pennsylvania was not in any way going to preclude the necessity of him remaining a union shop, except with the Pennsylvania Local rather than the New York Local. GE:And they were still lower wages? LA:Yes. People find this hard to believe- and I go to China now but we'll get into that later-- in 1955 do you have any idea what the minimum wage in the United States of America was? GE:I would guess 80 cents, 85 cents. LA:Very good- 75 cents an hour. The reason I remember it so vividly, when we started in September of 1955, the Union had asked us- because the Union wanted to show how much they were doing for the employees- so rather than start them off at the minimum wage of 75 cents an hour, we started them at a minimum wage of 80 cents an hour. The Union was able to show its membership what a great concession they managed to squeeze out of the employer. GE:Now what would the wage have been in New York? LA:The wage in New York was at that time probably $1.25 to $1.50. I don't have to tell you the cost of living in the New York metropolitan area as compared especially at that time to living in this area. SC:Did you live in Fleetwood? LA:No, no. And it was easy for us to decide because we were making regular trips back to New York to visit her parents. And it was a heck of a lot closer from Allentown to New York than it was from Reading. It was either you were going to live in Allentown or live in Reading, although it probably would have made a little more sense because Fleetwood, Pennsylvania is probably 40% away from Reading and 60% away from Allentown, so Reading was really closer to Fleetwood. It's in Berks County and Allentown is of course in Lehigh County. SC:And were there a lot of clothing factories? I know the outlets were there for a long time in Reading. LA:Oh yeah, there were a lot. Fortunately at the time- and Fleetwood is a very small town. I would tell people the way you knew it was Fleetwood was because there were three signs, each ten yards apart. The first one "You are now entering, you are now in, you have just left Fleetwood, Pennsylvania." It was a tiny community. What made it a little difficult around the Fleetwood-Kutztown area was that Kutztown during World War II was German and Pennsylvania-Dutch. Pennsylvania-Dutch came from northern Germany and on the border of the Netherlands. And Pennsylvania-Dutch, there was bigotry. In Fleetwood I remember the Union appoints a chair-lady. A chair-lady is the person who represents the employees on the lowest level, meaning grievances. Eva Kunkel, early on she said something and I almost threw her down a flight of stairs. I don't even want to go into what she said. But the one thing I will say is that as the years went by, and it's a long time, but rather quickly, I would say within 10 or 15 years-- both my father and I were very fair employers- there was acceptance. And today I still see people that worked for me. I'm still in Fleetwood, and that's another page of the story. Even though the factory is no longer in existence, I'll take you to that when we get there during the interview. So we found that we were accepted, and we were fair and treated employees very fairly. GE:What would you say would be some of the practices that you had which demonstrate that you were fair employers, and tried to treat the employees fairly? LA:There were many, many cases where there were voluntary wage increases that exceeded the union's agreement. In those days everything was not done on an hourly basis. It was referred to as piece-rate, and of course it was in dozens. The employee received so much per dozen for attaching the collar to the shirt. And these rates were negotiated by the Union, but they had no idea because they didn't have time-study engineers. What they did is they saw what another factory had- and I can still remember there was, I don't know if you heard of Harris Weinstein. Harris owned Dorney Park. We're still friends, even though we were competitors. His daughter, I'm still friends with- Edie Miller- I'm going to see her tomorrow. Her husband, Chester Miller, died just about a year ago. She was the daughter of Izzie Weinstein, the sister to Harris Weinstein. GE:Harris Weinstein, is he still alive? LA:Yes, he lives in Florida. But he's been out of the textile business. He went from Dorney Park to real estate among other things. But I would remember Izzie Weinstein. He spoke with a very heavy accent. I would be in the office or something and Izzie Weinstein would have called my father. SC:Today is August 21st, 2012. Interview, tape number two with Lenny Abrams. So you were talking about Izzie Weinstein. LA:Yes. So Isador Weinstein had a factory in Northampton, Pennsylvania- Clyde Shirt Company. And they were friendly, and the phone would ring and my father would answer the phone, and it was Izzie Weinstein. The conversation would go something like this- "Hello Joe, how are you? What are you paying for a collar setting? I'm fine Izzie, and how are you? And by the way, how much are you paying for sleeve setting?" And the conversation would go on like this for five or six minutes, with each one asking a question, and the other party never answering the question. And then the conversation would end something like this- "Ok Joe, it was nice talking to you. Bye!" Everything was not by the hour, it was piece-rated. So you would say it was fair in many, many cases, although the union said that the piece-rate for attaching the collar to these shirts was 40 cents a dozen. Once I got there and I pretty much involved myself in all the sewing. My father, as I told you, was in the cutting department. And after a while I would realize that 40 cents a dozen for attaching collars- the operator cannot make it. You know, she cannot make a living wage at that piece-rate price. So therefore, I would go to the group of four collar setters, and I would call them into the office and tell them that effective Monday, instead of the piece-rate price being 40 cents a dozen for attaching or setting collars to those shirts, the rate starting next week is 48 cents a dozen. So then, at least in my own mind, I knew that a good operator who was diligent and did it correctly could make a living wage at 48 cents a dozen, which was 20 percent more than the 40 cents. SC:And no one talks about a living wage anymore in 2012. LA:Yeah, I know. And of course we did that from 1955 to 1985. And I was manufacturing shirts for the finest names. I was manufacturing shirts for Saks Fifth Avenue, Bergdorf. On one occasion when my father was in his 90s, I had to go to New York, and I went into Bergdorf Goodman. and I saw a shirt that I had made. It was a formal shirt to be worn with a tuxedo, and I just asked the sales person to please take it out to look at it. Then I whispered to my father, who was in wonderful physical condition and walking twice around Trexler Park in his late 90s. Then when I asked the sales price to the sales person and he said $180, my father whispered in my ear, "Lenny that's for a dozen isn't it?" He knew it, but that was his way of telling me the way things had changed. SC:You must have garnered an awful lot of loyalty from the people who had worked for you? LA:Of course, or otherwise we wouldn't have remained there. I'm going to jump ahead- the plant operator from 1955 to 2000, when I closed it in the year 2000. From 1955 to 1985 I went along and I was a shirt contractor. In 1985 my younger daughter married a gentleman named Paul Sacher, who is still in town. And they both had received masters in business administration from Tulane University, where they met. My daughter had graduated from Duke and then after a year or two of employment in the banking area, went to Tulane for her masters and they met. They were divorced a year-and-a-half ago, but the relationship between myself and my ex-son-in-law is just wonderful. In fact, at the time, I told my daughter Cathy that's strictly between the two of you, but certainly you understand that our 26 year relationship is wonderful. It really is, because the kids have grown up and they haven't suffered. But in any case, by 1985 I had not only the one factory in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania, I had opened a second factory in 1976 in Millville, New Jersey, which is just south of Vineland. And I was also a partner in a factory in New Orleans, Louisiana at that time. And once again the gentleman I was partners with was a very fine manufacturer, and he wanted to have a plant, so we were partners in the factory. I created the factory for him. New Orleans at that time was very fortunate, because there were a lot of Vietnamese who had come and settled in the New Orleans area because of the fishing industry. And they were very, very good when they were taught. They have marvelous manual dexterity, terrific manual dexterity. SC:And a good work ethic? LA:Oh yes. And I don't know if you're going to want to delete this from the interview, but what you never hear from American politicians, whether they are Democratic or Republican is that going back to the year 2000, I'm not familiar with it in the year 2012, but the Chinese or Vietnamese counterpart to the American sewing machine operator, in addition to being paid 10% of what the American counterpart is making, they are at least 150% as productive. So now the 10 to 1 wage edge becomes a 15 to 1 wage edge ; but you don't hear that. So 1985 rolls around, and my son-in-law realized that we had all of the ingredients to-- catalog was very big, the internet was just on the horizon, and you could see it coming. So we went into a separate business called Paul Frederick Men's Style Inc. SC:May we have one of the catalogs? LA:Yes, these are for you. SC:So we're going back to Paul Frederick, your brand, as online ordering started. LA:Well it started off as a little brochure, a four or five page brochure- buy a white shirt made by the best fabric, the best make, and we advertised in the United States at that time. SC:In the Wall Street Journal? LA:Yes, in the Wall Street Journal and space ads inside of page two. GE:And you were doing this as direct marketing? LA:Yes, direct marketing. Suddenly, from a shirt contractor who made shirts for other manufacturers, who then sold it to the consumer, suddenly we were going direct to the consumer. We were even eliminating the manufacturer, and of course there were tremendous price advantages for the consumer. And from the little space ads, it then became a little brochure that was mailed out to the small mailing list we had. And of course as the years passed, we probably sent out 36 different catalogs a year- nine per season- for each of four seasons. And then of course Paul recognized the fact that the internet was the shopping experience of tomorrow, and we created for Paul Frederick an internet presence, which if you go on the internet you will see a lot more than you are seeing here. GE:So it is very much catalog and internet? LA:Yes, it has evolved into not only shirts. As you can see it is men's suits, outerwear, and neckties. What we did was there was a natural evolution once he came aboard in 1985 or 1986, and as we saw shirts we were initially using for the photographs a few ties of mine. And suddenly some of the customers were saying, "Boy that was a nice tie on page two!" Of course there was only one of them, which I had purchased. Well the natural evolution, as long as it was initially dress shirts, and then it became neckwear. After neckwear then it became men's sport shirts and dress shirts. And then it became men's accessories- leather belts, shoes, suits, sport jackets, trousers. GE:And all of this is high-end? LA:Yes, it is all high-end. SC:And where are they manufactured? LA:Today, all are manufactured offshore. I would say we still do some manufacturing in Italy ; some of our ties are still made in Italy, and some of our clothing and trousers are made in Italy. We also make a few products in South America, but 90% of the product comes from the Far East. SC:And do you actually own the manufacturing companies? LA:No. And the Chinese have become so adept and so proficient. I tell the story which only happened a year-and-a-half ago. When you go back to the late 1970s, early 1980s, something suddenly presented itself. Remember where I told you my father, Joe Abrams, would move the patterns around, and he was called the marker because he traced around the pattern, located it here and moved this here. Suddenly our industry became CAD-CAM. What is CAD-CAM? Computer Assisted Design, Computer Assisted Manufacture. I was in Asia a year-and-a-half ago in Guangdong Province, China, and our main vendor is a wonderful man who we have a wonderful relationship with. He is especially wonderful because he knows I know. There are not many guys who he comes in contact with, so he enjoys my presence even more because he takes such pride in what he and his people do. So he shows me into a room which is all Computer Assisted Design, all computers and all Asian people. Finally one man turns around and he's not Asian, and he looks at me and says, "Lenny Abrams!?" And I say, "Al Panebianco!?" I turn to my merchandising manager and I say, "I told you I know everybody." This was a guy from Philadelphia, older than me by four or five years. I had gotten to know him, and I really tried to learn from him because I knew he was way upfront with Computer Assisted Design and Manufacturing. It was Al Pane, but I still called him Panebianco because that was his real name. Even though he was retired, it turns out that he spends two six-week periods every year, 12 out of every 52 weeks, he spends in China as a consultant for this man that owned the plant that I do business with. One Caucasian in Guangdong Province and Lenny Abrams knows him- 34 million Chinese. So getting back, we evolved from the mid-1980s to the present with a company that is really thriving. But as long as we are going to do it, people are going to say the jobs are taken away from us. America lost jobs. Well, we look at it this way- I look at it a little differently. Sure there were 200 manufacturing jobs that existed in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania for Fleetwood Shirts, which was the name of the company. Let's say for a moment those 200 jobs generated at the time $20,000 a year. Well if you multiply 200 jobs by $20,000, I think you're going to come up with $4 million. Well today there are no manufacturing jobs, but we employ about 120 and probably the average earnings are $60,000 a year. Well now multiply 120 by $60,000- that's $7.2 million, as opposed to the $4 million. GE:So you still employ 120 people? LA:Sure. We have telemarketers, we have marketing people, merchandising people, and we pick and pack. Another building became available. We realized the building the factory was located in-- and don't forget it started in 1985, and I was still manufacturing-- that building wasn't going to become available for Paul Frederick anyway. So we had a makeshift building, and then this became available-- it's a 66,000 one-story building in Fleetwood that originally manufactured these huge freezers that you see in supermarkets-- you know, the huge freezers in the back. They were manufacturing and the company went bankrupt. We bought the building, converted it completely, and today it is more because we've added square footage over the years. We probably bought the building in the early 1990s, I forgot but I could certainly check. So we probably owned the building for 20 years in that area now-- and have added square footage to the building on several occasions. SC:So that's where Paul Frederick is located? LA:Yes. We also have our own photographic studio, which we were initially photographing in New York. But we do almost all of our own photography these days, which is also a big savings. GE:So in a sense is this product line akin to what somebody would buy at Nordstrom? LA:Yes, the product line today- our biggest competitors would be Brooks Brothers, Joseph A. Bank, and Nordstrom. Those are our primary competitors. GE:Right, and where they are retailers you are a catalog-- LA:But don't forget, so is Brooks Brothers today. GE:But they still have stores. LA:Yes, they have brick and mortar. GE:And you're not brick and mortar. LA:Think of us as Amazon versus Wal-Mart. Compare Amazon to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is bricks and mortar, and Amazon is absolutely no bricks and mortar ; all, everything online. Certainly with technology improving all of the time, we're now into trying to see what other people are doing and developing. If only we could get you to be able to touch and feel, because if you go shopping, boy it's nice sometimes to feel that fabric, especially clothes. To try it on, the virtual-- how do you create the virtual fitting room online. These are things that are not going to be in my lifetime anymore but it's going to come-- it will be there. GE:This interests me because I teach marketing. So this is also a lot like database marketing, and a database of people? LA:Yes. We have probably a 12 month mailing list today of 250,000. GE:Well I want you to know my son just graduated law school and starts in October at a law firm, but I am going to say this to him, because I know that he needs to have very good shirts and suits. And I assume this is cheaper. LA:See if he is going to, you should tell him to go to the section which has- he just graduated law school, he's not married is he? Single? GE:He just got married two weeks ago. LA:Does she like washing shirts? GE:I'm sure she doesn't. LA:Well we're not going to talk about that! There is an entire section which reads, "No Iron." GE:And these are still very fine? LA:Oh yes, they are very fine. Trust me, you just throw it in the washer and dry it and it comes out fine since it is all cotton, it's not a synthetic. GE:He's telling me, because he had ordered a shirt for his wedding from a place- I'm sure it was made in China- from a tailor that measures you and whatever. LA:Hong Kong, maybe? GE:Right, but he lives in Chicago, and in Chicago somebody measured him. I think it was $90 or $100, which to me is a lot of money. And I said that is ridiculous, but he said, "Mom, it fits so nicely, and for work that's what I'm going to do." LA:Well tell him to try one! I take pleasure in my declining years-- GE:You know, this is the only one that's still alive and in operation. In part it sounds like to me we can't compete being the producer. You can only compete frankly having the brand. LA:As a matter of fact we just had a woman who came in and spent two full days with us from Colorado- was a branding expert. We brought her in and she lectured, and up until yesterday I had her 280 page report- I brought it into the office because I was reading it there. SC:Do you think that because you did go to college for business, do you think that made a difference in the way you see the world? LA:You know, I like to think it did because there were some basic principles in accounting- I was an accounting major- and certainly the knowledge of numbers and the ability to read a balance sheet properly, and the ability to read somebody else's balance sheet. Along about even before, oh it must have been in the 1970s, there were several firms- one was Eagle Clothing, an American clothing manufacturer who operated in Manhattan and Brooklyn. And they made an offer to buy the plant because they figured as long as they had tailored clothing and shirts. And of course all of these potential transactions were going to be stock-based, because you weren't getting money ; you were getting somebody else's paper and somebody else's stock certificates. And at that particular time, and there were two instances, Eagle was just one of them, and I looked at their balance sheet and their P& ; L statement, and I said you know, I just don't think they're going to be able to continue with the bottom-line that they've been able to do up until now because this is going to increase. Well that arose from my ability to be able to read a statement, whether it be a P& ; L or a balance sheet as a result of the education that the School of Commerce gave me. I would like to think that some of the reason for whatever success there was, was education-based. SC:So this is tape 3, interview with Lenny Abrams. Today is August 21, 2012. So maybe we could move back a little bit and talk about your mother's family? LA:Yes. I indicated that my mother was born in the United States. She was a year older than my father- born the year 1899. GE:Her name was Sarah? LA:Sarah Pomerantz. GE:And where is her family from? LA:From, I'm not even sure- Eastern Europe. But once again, born in the United States in a live poultry market. A father and mother-- GE:When did they come? LA:Well my mother was born in the United States in 1899, so I would guess they probably came somewhere between 1880 and 1890. GE:And did she have other siblings? LA:Oh yes. She had a twin brother and two other brothers, and another set of twins- a brother and a sister who were twins. GE:And was everybody born here? LA:Yes. Everybody had to be born here because she was the oldest. She and her twin brother were the oldest. GE:And did her parents come already as a married couple? LA:Yes. SC:And there are Pomerantzs in Bethlehem, I believe. LA:Unrelated. There was a Pomerantz right here in Allentown. There was Danny Pomerantz, and I knew Danny well. GE:I think he was a lawyer? LA:Yes. He was a past president as well of the Federation as I am, but he was unrelated. We had gotten into that on more than one occasion. SC:So the poultry market- they were living in New York also in Brooklyn, in the Williamsburg area? LA:No, they were living in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. SC:Ok and they had a poultry market? LA:The poultry market was located in I think the Bronx. So they traveled by subway to the poultry market- I think it was in the Bronx. We always managed to talk more about my father's side of the family. You think there were these skeletons in the closet on my mother's side? Possibly? SC:We all have them! And so one of the issues we're interested in is the entrepreneurship that seems to run in families. And maybe it's not in the needle-trade but-- LA:It's interesting that you mention it because in my mother's family, her twin brother owned a live poultry market. The next brother owned a service station, a gas station in Lower Manhattan. The next brother owned a women's pocketbook factory in Brooklyn, New York. And the youngest- one of whom, they were twins, a brother and a sister- he had a service station in Brooklyn on DeKalb Avenue. And I remember that because he helped me to purchase my first car- a used Chevy. GE:On your father's side, he was one also of several? LA:He was one of six. GE:How about on that side of the family- were they also in little businesses? LA:His brother- he had one brother and four sisters. Interestingly enough on his side he had a sister, who was his favorite sister, who worked for him many years in the factory in the office. And when my father passed away in 2006-- GE:So she lived in this area? She came to this area, his sister?LA:No, no. Don't forget that was just in Brooklyn. Once he moved out of Brooklyn that was done, and then she passed away. But when he passed away in 2006, he was survived by a younger sister who lived several years- Aunt Frieda. Now Frieda-- I didn't know her very well-- but I knew from listening to my father that Frieda never had one good day her entire life. She was married to an abusive husband, one daughter who stopped speaking to her-- and that was interesting. So my father once a month would always send a check to Aunt Frieda, and the caregivers would remind me- because for the last couple of years he could no longer write. I would send a check to Aunt Frieda once a month. And the caregivers would remind me on those days to not forget to send a check to Aunt Frieda. Well, now my father passed away, and the only time I was speaking to Aunt Frieda since she never made long distance calls as she lives in some place in Long Island. And she'd call me to remind me that she didn't get any mail from me. Well I never wrote Aunt Frieda long letters, I'd only send checks. GE:Right, that was the polite way of saying yet. LA:That was her polite way of saying it, that your check never came. And then I guess it was only about two years ago that she passed away. So there certainly was longevity in my father's-- well I should say that my mother passed away in-- My father and mother died on the same day 13 years apart. GE:So it sounds like on your mother's side they were all in little businesses? LA:Yeah. They were entrepreneurs on my mother's side. And on my father's side one younger brother was in business for himself, unfortunately not successfully. GE:Why do you think, what is your understanding or your thoughts about why that was so common in the Jewish community-- as opposed to other communities? LA:It's an excellent question and of course if we today, if we were to think of your children and my children, well of course we stress education. We stress the desire of moving up the socio-economic ladder. That was certainly not the case with my maternal grandmother, nor was it the case with my paternal grandfather or grandmother. I have to believe that what it was, was the ability of people like my father and all the others to see that in those days the United States was truly a place where you could better yourself. If you worked hard, if you learned as much as you could about what you were doing, and worked hard at it, there was opportunity. It truly, in those years from early in the 20th century, from 1911 going forward, the United States was the land of opportunity-- especially for entrepreneurs. It didn't come from their parents in my father and mother's generation, but they had enough street smarts to realize this themselves. They looked around, and they said, "Look at that guy over there. He's got his own business-- I know he's not a whole lot smarter than me. He didn't really have a whole lot more money than I did when I started. Why not? Why can't I follow in those footsteps?" There was opportunity. They recognized the opportunity and they jumped at it. GE:Well you know on your mother's side it sounds like even her parents-- LA:Oh yeah. I was not as close-- I never knew my maternal grandfather. And my maternal grandmother-- there was always of course the language problem because all of the three grandparents of mine, none of the three spoke English. It was only Yiddish. You learn some Yiddish as you go along, but certainly not enough to become completely conversational. SC:Do you think that people stayed within the community, the ethnic and religious community, to further their business initially? LA:I think initially that was it. And then of course they realized that you couldn't inhibit yourself by remaining in a capsule or remaining in one tiny little niche. So they adventured out of that cloistered environment, realizing that it was a big country. GE:And those that didn't perhaps didn't prosper as well? LA:Of course there was, needless to say, and I should have mentioned, because from my business in addition to what this is, Rose Cathy has a business. She became very interested in horses when she was 11. And after she graduated from Tulane, and after her brief banking [career] of a year or two, she wanted to become an entrepreneur. So she has a niche where she makes the finest riding shirts for women who ride horses-- you see them in the Olympics, you see them in shows. The name of her company is Essex Classics, Inc. And she has a very nice thriving business which you see all around here-- she's gradually moving me out slowly. GE:Is this also an internet business? LA:Yes, because once again she sells to many of the stores that are both represented in catalogs and on the internet. She has only begun to sell directly to the consumer in a small way with what are called clearance closeouts. But everything else is through the retail establishment, and in most cases there is a physical presence-- bricks and mortar in those cases. So she is also from that, and has created a related kind of a business. Related in that I helped her to get started, and then she took the ball and ran with it. GE:And even your business initially, even from 1955 to 1985, you made shirts, but you always made fine shirts. LA:If you wanted fine shirts, you came to Lenny Abrams. GE:And when you say that, was that just on the different manufacturers-- would they go to you just from the east coast? Did you have a national reputation, a regional reputation? LA:I would say it was more regional, but then again the men's clothing industry was always centered around Manhattan. Of course as the years passed there was a distinct presence in other large metropolitan areas as well. Certainly New York was the base of the textile industry. SC:Can we move to what you've done within the larger community? LA:Sure. Certainly I'm a supporter of the causes throughout the community. I always had a special interest in supporting and being involved in the Jewish community. Early on I was a board member in the Jewish Community Center-- GE:So you came here in the mid 1950s- how old were your children at the time? LA:One was born in New York in 1955. Cathy was born in Allentown in 1956-- a year and eight days apart. But she was born here in Allentown. We moved here in September or October of 1955, and she was born in May of 1966. SC:Did you always live in this house? LA:No. We lived in Valley View Apartments, number 209 for two years. GE:And Valley View Apartments are where? LA:Valley View Apartments, if you take a ride over, if you're on the South Side go over the 15th Street Bridge. Valley View Apartments if you drive around there today and there's a good chance you'll be the only Caucasian. Then we moved and built a house on Greenleaf and 25th Street- the southeast corner of Greeleaf and 25th. We moved into the house in 1957. So we lived in Valley View Apartments for two years, and the reason we bought the house- the lot was $3,000, and I could afford to spend $22,000 for the house, so that the whole cost was not more than $25,000. GE:And I'm sorry, where was that? LA:2446 Greenleaf Street- the southeast corner of Greenleaf and 25th Street. GE:You want to know who I think lives there? LA:Arnold Finklestein, Arnold and Marlene Finklestein built a lovely house just on the other corner. GE:I was thinking that Barbara Weinrach lives right near there. My children went to her to play piano. LA:Yes. Barbara Weinrach taught my granddaughter for a while. They may still live around there. GE:I remember it was somewhere right around there. LA:And then we lived there, and actually we lived there until 1991. We've only been in this house for 21 years. SC:So you've worked in the community just generally? LA:No. After serving as a board member for the Jewish Community Center, I became more interested in the Federation. I was Campaign Chair, and then I was President for two years. When Ivan Schonfeld was the Executive Director, I was President at that time-- for at least two of those years. GE:And at the JCC you were a board member? LA:Yes. I'm still an honorary Vice President of the Federation, and I'm an honorary board member, I think for life or something like that. SC:Was your wife also involved? LA:She was not involved to the extent that I was. She was always active in Hadassah and other organizations, but not in leadership roles. She preferred to take a backseat. SC:And as far as the general community is concerned, the Allentown community, did you get involved in any organizations? GE:Or even the Association business-wise? LA:I know I got a gift from Mayor Daddona once for doing something but I don't even remember what it was. I was also honored somewhere back for Israel bonds at a dinner. My father and mother were alive then, and so it was for the family because we purchased Israel bonds. SC:And did you work with Arnold Delin in his association? LA:No. Don't forget Arnold Dellin's association was to represent manufacturers that were controlled by the International Ladies Garment Workers' Union. Arnold, or as I call him "Armold"-- because I know him very well-- Arnold had nothing to do with menswear. SC:So you knew him as a friend, not involved with his association? LA:Right. And I watched with interest his declining membership, and I pointed out some 20 years before it broke up that he was going to wind up with two. SC:As the contractors moved south-- LA:As the contractors disappeared-- it wasn't only a question of moving South. Some used the South as an intermediary stopping point on the way to Asia or Central America, or Mexico. Some didn't-- some were smart enough to figure out, "why should I go from the slate belt of Pennsylvania to Mississippi for 2.5 years when I'm going to end up in the Far East?" GE:And a lot just left-- they left the whole industry. I'm assuming also, I don't know if this is correct or not, but as it became more productive, I assume they just needed fewer of the contractors. The same factory was just producing more shirts than they were used to producing. LA:The same factory in the United States? GE:Right, or wherever it was. Here and then later there-- it was becoming more automated. LA:No. The textile industry became somewhat automated, but nothing comparable to so many other industries. I remember Keebler had a factory right on I-78, which employed one person. So our industry became somewhat automated. The Computer Assisted Design and Manufacturers helped, but the greatest assistance that came- instead of somebody standing at a table with huge patterns. It was all reduced to miniatures on a screen, and you moved it around on a screen and pressed a button. That's where the primary move came. Most of these products in the textile industry are labor-intensive products. A shirt is a very labor intensive product. GE:Is it still? LA:Yes, it's a very labor intensive product. Quite obviously the more complicated the garment, the more of an intensity of labor is needed. The more intense the labor requirements, the greater the benefit of going overseas. To make something very simple- let's look at a napkin, just sewing the four edges-- you could probably still make that in the United States, because labor is such an insignificant part of that product. This shirt for example, the labor is a very, very significant part. SC:And I really like that shirt by the way- it's a very nice shirt. LA:Even at age 81, I'm proud of what I think I've been able to accomplish over a 57 year period or whatever it is. SC:And it's still going. LA:Yeah. And I still enjoy going in several times a week. I would have been there today had we not had this interview. Because quite candidly-- and I love Nate Braunstein who is a dear friend of mine and Milten Sheftel who I have known forever. I find that by staying active, even at this age, that only I believe it, whether it's true, that I'm somewhat better off than some of my contemporaries who have stopped doing that. SC:I have two very filmy questions- getting deeper-into-things questions. The first one is: what has made you feel the most creative in life? LA:Creative? SC:In the broadest sense ; artistic or creative? LA:I'm not an especially creative or artistic person. My wife was very creative and artistic. I pride myself more in the ability to execute. SC:That's creative! That's very creative! LA:Given a certain scenario, I am probably best at bringing that from the creative birth, to the finished unit. SC:But it's a practical creativity. LA:I can, you know, the years have given me an insight, and I can recognize probably more quickly than some people in terms of what is going to be good and what is not going to be good. I must say that I'm not the most creative or artistic guy that there ever was. If I rated myself from one to ten on an artistic-creative scale, I'd be down around two, three, or four. I'm not going to be up to six, seven, eight, nine, ten. But I can execute. SC:Do you think that's a key to what makes a good business person? LA:I think if you are going to manufacture something, you better damn well know how to execute ; because that is where it's at. Getting it from what somebody thinks is going to be really good to a finished product with everything it takes to alter this, that, compromise this or that, but get to the finished product. I think that's my strong suit. GE:And of the various types of executions that you've done over the years, is there any that you feel would be at the apex of what you thought made you the most proud? LA:I think that the ability to sit with you today, at this age, and know that with my help and assistance, and whatever cooperation, that this survives. And my daughter has Essex Classics, which is very successful. I think that is what gives me the most pride-- the fact that so many other people that I know were able to go so far. And then whether the sign of the times, the inability to move faster into another area, where they have given up, I managed to survive it and still be a presence today at this point. SC:What do you value most in life? LA:I think- I always tell this to my daughter-- character. I often say to my daughter and my ex-son-in-law, if I interview somebody for a job, the most important thing to me, and I've learned that, is not do they have the knowledge and the capability right now to do this job. That's secondary. Do they have character? Because you either have it or you don't. So the ability to tell and to discern character in somebody else. I had in 1976-- I was operating in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania-- and the accounting firm I used was in New York City. They sent out somebody to do the quarterly audit for me in the business. This particular occasion it was a very heavyset, very young, heavy-accented Italian man. And in order to be polite during his first visit-- his name was Rossolino Alino. I said Ross, if you need a place to stay tonight- I recommended the Holiday Inn on 309 and 22, which is now a Days Inn, I believe. Earlier in the day he said, "I thank you but I don't need a place to stay because I have a friend in Kutztown." All day long this guy with a very heavy Italian accent from New York, I'm thinking, "How does he wind up with a Pennsylvania-Dutch friend?" Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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01:26:36
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Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012
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Lenny Abrams talks about his father working in a men’s shirt factory, losing his job during the Great Depression, working as a Union Agent representing the workers in their quest for better pay and work conditions, and then opening his own factory years later making fine men’s shirts. Lenny Abram’s business is one of the few where three generations of owners retired: Lenny, his father, and his former son-in-law. Lenny’s son-in-law successfully adapted the business from contract manufacturing to direct marketing first by catalogue and, later, e-commerce.
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LVTNT-35
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2012-08-21
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Copyright remains with the interview subject and their heirs.