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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leonard Abrams
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5.4 August 21, 2012 Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012 LVTNT-35 01:25:37 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Leonard Abrams Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 AbramsLeonard_20210821.mp4 1.0:|19(13)|32(4)|55(2)|72(11)|95(2)|114(12)|131(14)|146(17)|163(11)|184(8)|203(7)|228(5)|251(15)|266(9)|279(4)|296(16)|309(4)|324(13)|341(7)|360(10)|377(5)|394(12)|421(2)|440(5)|459(10)|482(4)|493(12)|508(7)|521(3)|540(6)|565(3)|580(6)|599(11)|616(3)|633(4)|648(6)|663(15)|680(5)|691(15)|712(3)|725(4)|744(11)|765(3)|780(6)|799(15)|816(2)|831(7)|850(14)|869(12)|892(7)|905(10)|926(7)|951(3)|970(4)|989(6)|1010(15)|1033(7)|1052(13)|1083(3)|1100(11)|1121(6)|1136(15)|1157(5)|1172(16)|1185(15)|1206(2)|1225(12)|1242(7)|1259(12)|1276(11)|1295(13)|1318(4)|1339(4)|1364(9)|1387(5)|1400(13)|1421(11)|1438(7)|1455(5)|1470(14)|1487(7)|1508(14)|1529(12)|1548(9)|1565(4)|1580(9)|1591(14) 0 https://youtu.be/EtYnTJ1d6v4 YouTube video 0 Early Family History Susan Clemens-Bruder: Today is August 21, 2012. This interview is with Lenny Abrams, and interviewing is Susan Clemens-Bruder and Gail Eisenberg. So first of all, we’re going to take you back to your family, because it’s really important to show the context of the family and how you got here. So how much do you know about your family ; their names, where they lived, their education, as far back as you know?
 ; 0 409 Family History: 1930s-1940s My father initially got a job in a shirt factory, which was what was called a “spreader”- that was taking the cloth from the bolt and laying it on the table, ply, over ply, over ply, to enable to cut whatever garment it was. And it happened to have been men’s shirts. 0 1327 Unions and Wages SC: May I back you up for one second?
 ; 
 ; LA: Go right ahead.
 ; 
 ; SC: So in New York your dad’s company was a union.
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 ; LA: Yes.
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 ; SC: This would make sense. And in Pennsylvania he was going to become a union shop? 0 1687 Fair Business Practices GE: What would you say would be some of the practices that you had which demonstrate that you were fair employers, and tried to treat the employees fairly?
 ; 
 ; LA: There were many, many cases where there were voluntary wage increases that exceeded the union’s agreement. 0 1817 Business Practices (cont'd) SC: Today is August 21st, 2012. Interview, tape number two with Lenny Abrams. So you were talking about Izzie Weinstein.
 ; 
 ; LA: Yes. So Isador Weinstein had a factory in Northampton, Pennsylvania- Clyde Shirt Company. And they were friendly, and the phone would ring and my father would answer the phone, and it was Izzie Weinstein 0 2351 Online Ordering SC: So we’re going back to Paul Frederick, your brand, as online ordering started.
 ; 
 ; LA: Well it started off as a little brochure, a four or five page brochure- buy a white shirt made by the best fabric, the best make, and we advertised in the United States at that time. 0 2546 Manufacturing Insights SC: And where are they manufactured?
 ; 
 ; LA: Today, all are manufactured offshore. I would say we still do some manufacturing in Italy ; some of our ties are still made in Italy, and some of our clothing and trousers are made in Italy. We also make a few products in South America, but 90% of the product comes from the Far East. 0 3256 Relating Education to Real World SC: Do you think that because you did go to college for business, do you think that made a difference in the way you see the world?
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 ; LA: You know, I like to think it did because there were some basic principles in accounting- I was an accounting major- and certainly the knowledge of numbers and the ability to read a balance sheet properly, and the ability to read somebody else’s balance sheet. 0 3379 More Family History SC: So this is tape 3, interview with Lenny Abrams. Today is August 21, 2012. So maybe we could move back a little bit and talk about your mother’s family?
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 ; LA: Yes. I indicated that my mother was born in the United States. She was a year older than my father- born the year 1899.
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 ; GE: Her name was Sarah?
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 ; LA: Sarah Pomerantz. 0 3816 Jewish Community and Textiles GE: Why do you think, what is your understanding or your thoughts about why that was so common in the Jewish community-- as opposed to other communities?
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 ; LA: It’s an excellent question and of course if we today, if we were to think of your children and my children, well of course we stress education. We stress the desire of moving up the socio-economic ladder. That was certainly not the case with my maternal grandmother, nor was it the case with my paternal grandfather or grandmother. I have to believe that what it was, was the ability of people like my father and all the others to see that in those days the United States was truly a place where you could better yourself. 0 4232 Involvement in Community SC: Can we move to what you’ve done within the larger community?
 ; 
 ; LA: Sure. Certainly I’m a supporter of the causes throughout the community. I always had a special interest in supporting and being involved in the Jewish community. Early on I was a board member in the Jewish Community Center…
 ; 0 4528 Needle-Trade Contractors Leave the Area SC: And did you work with Arnold Delin in his association?
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 ; LA: No. Don’t forget Arnold Dellin’s association was to represent manufacturers that were controlled by the International Ladies Garment Workers’ Union. Arnold, or as I call him “Armold”-- because I know him very well-- Arnold had nothing to do with menswear.
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 ; SC: So you knew him as a friend, not involved with his association?
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 ; LA: Right. 0 4865 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative in Life? SC: I have two very filmy questions- getting deeper-into-things questions. The first one is: what has made you feel the most creative in life? 
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 ; LA: Creative?
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 ; SC: In the broadest sense ; artistic or creative?
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 ; LA: I’m not an especially creative or artistic person. My wife was very creative and artistic. I
 ; pride myself more in the ability to execute.
 ; 0 5079 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: What do you value most in life?
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 ; LA: I think- I always tell this to my daughter-- character. I often say to my daughter and my ex-son-in-law, if I interview somebody for a job, the most important thing to me, and I’ve learned that, is not do they have the knowledge and the capability right now to do this job. That’s secondary. Do they have character? Because you either have it or you don’t. 0 MovingImage Lenny Abrams talks about his father working in a men’s shirt factory, losing his job during the Great Depression, working as a Union Agent representing the workers in their quest for better pay and work conditions, and then opening his own factory years later making fine men’s shirts. Lenny Abram’s business is one of the few where three generations of owners retired: Lenny, his father, and his former son-in-law. Lenny’s son-in-law successfully adapted the business from contract manufacturing to direct marketing first by catalogue and, later, e-commerce. Interview with Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER:Today is August 21, 2012. This interview is with Lenny Abrams, and interviewing is Susan Clemens-Bruder and Gail Eisenberg. So first of all, we're going to take you back to your family, because it's really important to show the context of the family and how you got here. So how much do you know about your family ; their names, where they lived, their education, as far back as you know? LEONARD ABRAMS:I certainly will give you that. We'll start with the paternal side. My father, originally Joseph Abramowitz- as I was Lenny Abramowitz, and then Joseph Abrams- was born April 10, 1900, and died February 18th, 2006. So he came within 100 days of having lived in three different centuries. He arrived in this country, he was one of six children ; arrived in this country with, I believe, my grandfather and one sister first. That was then followed by a brother and a sister. And that was followed by my paternal grandmother and two other sisters. There were four sisters and two brothers. He arrived in this country somewhere around 1911 at the age of 11. GAIL EISENBERG:From what country? LA:Poland. GE:Do you know where in Poland? LA:No. I should, but I don't remember what city. Whatever area in Poland it was today it is probably a part of Russia. GE:Right, or Lithuania? LA:Or Lithuania. And so my father had to struggle for an education because he was expected at a very early age to go out and help support the family. And he fought very hard to get as much of an education. He had told me he had persuaded on one occasion my paternal grandfather to listen to a male first cousin of his, who had suggested that why not go to school for another year? So he managed to get through the 6th or 7th grade. Never spoke with an accent, although he was 11. You could not detect that he was not born in the United States. GE:So he only went to the 6th grade here in the States? LA:Yes. He was very much self-educated. He read, I still remember, that as a young boy he thought so highly of Eleanor Roosevelt that when I delivered a eulogy for my father, I said that he just had this passion for Eleanor Roosevelt. If one would know anything of Eleanor Roosevelt, she was not the most attractive woman that had ever crossed. And yet he admired her. And I think one of the reasons he did, and I'm not going to use names in this. Roosevelt was elected in 1932. Shortly after his election, there was something going on in this area and lots of other areas throughout the country, but especially in the textile business, which was known as white slavery. Have either of you heard of white slavery? SC:[No response] GE:[No response] LA:White slavery was, after all, the country was in the Depression. Women probably for the first time had to go out into the world to try to obtain jobs. And it was very, very, difficult, and there were some textile owners who used the occasion of women really pleading for jobs, especially in the textile industry which was 90 to 95 percent female. Women came in for a job. There's a room over there, you go inside the room, you get undressed, and I'll be there shortly. That became known as white slavery. Eleanor Roosevelt personally campaigned after FDR was elected. I wouldn't say a lot of it, but some of it occurred right here in the Lehigh Valley. SC:Where were they living by the way? Were they living in the Lehigh Valley or New York? LA:No, no. My father and mother- my mother was born in the United States of America. Her father died when he was in his early 30s. Also six children. Live poultry market, kosher-killed chickens. I used to kid my mother, may she rest in peace. I would say, is it true mom that in the 1916 Olympics you beat this big Russian lady in chicken plucking? "No it's not true Lenny!" My mother was a year older than my father, so she was born in 1899. My father, probably one of his initial jobs-- GE:What was your mother's name? LA:Sarah, maiden name-- Sarah Pomerantz. My father initially got a job in a shirt factory, which was what was called a "spreader"- that was taking the cloth from the bolt and laying it on the table, ply, over ply, over ply, to enable to cut whatever garment it was. And it happened to have been men's shirts. Then in the early '30s- I was born in 1931- at about the time I was born, and I remember this from later conversations that had occurred, the economy was terrible and my father had lost his job. I was just born, and for about seven or eight months until he landed another job, he would get dressed every morning and leave the house, and my mother never knew that he was out of work. And then he was still unable to get work, so he took a job as a business agent for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union. And when we go back in time, there were two unions that controlled the textile industry. One was the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union, which geared itself to the menswear industry. The other was the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, which geared itself to the women's clothing industry. At some point, 20 or 25 years ago, they joined forces, and undoubtedly were forced to because of dropping membership roles as products went offshore. So they joined forces and became what is today known as UNITE- Union of NeedleTrades, Industrial, and Textile Employees. So my father took a job as a business agent for the Union. GE:What does that mean? What did he do? LA:He represented the employees in negotiations, grievances, wage increases, better working conditions, etc. And there was a man out here- we arrived here in 1955. I'll jump ahead for a moment and then I'll go back. We arrived here in 1955. SC:Where did you come from? LA:New York City. My father had a shirt factory in Brooklyn, New York. Scholes Street which was right near the Williamsburg Bridge, and right near I remember a kosher dairy restaurant. The name escapes me. But when we got here in 1955 there was a man that had been out here since the mid '30s, working for somebody else. The man's name was Mac Jacoby. Mac Jacobee was a grandfather to Ronnie kahan, if that name means anything. GE:I do know Ronnie kahan. LA:Ronnie kahan's mother is Sadelle kahan. Of course his name was Mac Jacoby. I knew Sadelle's daughter very well. When we came here in 1955, this Mac Jacoby called my father, and he remembered that in 1935 or 1936 my father had said, "Mac, we're going to have to send you out to Pennsylvania. There are no jobs that we can find for you in New York. But I promise you that in a year or two things will get better in New York, and I'll call you back." So when we arrived in 1955 I was just out of the Army. My father got a call from Mac Jacoby- "Joe, I'm still waiting for your call! It's 1955, you told me at the end of 1935 or early 1936 that you would be calling me within a few months. You have to bring me back to New York!" This was very funny. Alright, now we will go back to where we were. GE:Just take us a second back. Your father was a business agent for the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union. And about when was that? LA:That was probably from about 1931 to 1937 or 1938. GE:Ok, so he did it for that long. LA:Yeah, he did it for that long. GE:And one thing is I assume, therefore, he really understood that side of it? LA:He really understood both sides. For a guy without an education he was extremely bright. SC:And when he started working, and he worked in the factories, do you know what factory he worked for? LA:No, no, I don't. SC:But that would've been in Brooklyn also? LA:Well, it would've been in Manhattan probably. There were these small factories that dotted all of Manhattan and Brooklyn, and even later Queens was a spot for many of them. So then my father went back to work, probably in 1937. He was what was called a "Marker." That was the highest position in the cutting process. The process of cutting the shirts, which was laying the patterns out to enable one to get maximum utilization of fabric per unit. That was the highest paid position in the cutting department. SC:And in 1937 of course there was another recession. That was in 1937 to 1938, so that makes sense. LA:Yes. And then he probably saved- I knew my father was saving money because my parents were saving money to go to business. I knew my parents very rarely argued, but I could remember it was probably 1939 or 1940. I must have been just nine or ten years old. I could remember a huge dispute. Why? My mother went out and bought an oval dinette table, which was $62. She could've purchased a rectangular dinette table for $44. So I remember vividly the $18 difference was the crux of the dispute. My father was saving money, and then in 1944 I think he went into business for the first time in Brooklyn, New York. I had no interest as a kid growing up ; later on maybe in 1946 or 1947, I guess I showed a little interest. GE:How many siblings do you have? LA:None, I am an only child. SC:And did he work for the War Effort at all? Was he making anything in 1944? LA:I don't know if he was. I know he worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard during World War I-- going back to 1916, 1917, and 1918. But I really don't know. I don't think so. GE:And what business was he in-- men's shirts? LA:He was in men's shirts. He was referred to as a "Contractor of Men's Shirts." What does the word "Contractor of Men's Shirts" mean? The definition is really this: the finished product was sold to stores by somebody called a manufacturer ; a shirt manufacturer. Well, shirt manufacturers had design people and sales people, but most of them really did not have production facilities. So they purchased the fabric. The shirt contractor provided the labor to turn the purchased fabric into finished products. And that little niche was referred to as the contractor. So he was a shirt contractor in Brooklyn, New York from around 1945. I went to college at the New York University School of Commerce, which today is the Stern School of Business. And of course one of the reasons was-- I was accepted into Wharton and would have very much liked to have gone there-- but that would have necessitated living away from home. This was out of the question because it was too expensive. So I went to New York University, and I think I got an excellent education. About that period of time, between 1948 and 1952, when I was at New York University, my father had expressed the thought to me that it was becoming more and more difficult to operate in Brooklyn, New York. Labor costs were rising- the same thing which occurred here in the last 25 years, occurred then in New York. Young women much preferred, even if the pay was somewhat less, to be a receptionist in a dental office. You know, I wear a dress, a skirt, or blouse to work every day-- I don't operate a sewing machine. So, at that time already this was becoming more and more evident in New York. During the time that I was at NYU from 1948 to 1952, my father would express the desire to me on several occasions that the time was coming that he would no longer be able to operate. And then he sort of decided that as soon as I graduated college in'52-- the Korean War was on, and I was drafted almost immediately. I graduated college in June, and I was drafted in November. So he waited until I was out of the service, which was 1954. I was married in 1953. My wife passed away- it will be three years in October. So he waited actually until I got out of the service in 1954, and we started looking around and we located in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania. GE:And where is Fleetwood? LA:Fleetwood is a little past Kutztown and on the way to Reading. Fleetwood, Pennsylvania is probably best known for the fact that in the early 20th century, the Fleetwood Cadillac was produced in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania- it still bears the name Fleetwood body for the Cadillac. In Fleetwood, Pennsylvania there was a factory which was owned by Arrow Shirt, which was Cleutt Peabody & ; Company, the largest shirt manufacturer in the United States. And it was one of their smaller facilities. And at that time they were ridding themselves of any facility which produced less than 10,000 dozen a week. They were getting rid of any facility that produced less than 120,000 garments of finished shirts a week. So that became available. And of course the union, although they would've preferred that he remained in New York, the union in New York, or the New York Local, was cooperative with the Pennsylvania Local because it was a foregone conclusion that if you were going to go to Pennsylvania, it was going to have to be as a union shop. So the New York Local and the Pennsylvania Local worked hand-in-hand to try to find a place out in Pennsylvania. Because it was apparent that it was much better if you could find a place in Pennsylvania for Joe Abrams to manufacture shirts in, than if he would have suddenly on his own go to Tennessee or South Carolina, or someplace in the South, which was non-union. SC:May I back you up for one second? LA:Go right ahead. SC:So in New York your dad's company was a union. LA:Yes. SC:This would make sense. And in Pennsylvania he was going to become a union shop? LA:Yes, exactly. It was predetermined that if he was part of the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union- Jacob Potofsky the President, I still remember- that moving to Pennsylvania was not in any way going to preclude the necessity of him remaining a union shop, except with the Pennsylvania Local rather than the New York Local. GE:And they were still lower wages? LA:Yes. People find this hard to believe- and I go to China now but we'll get into that later-- in 1955 do you have any idea what the minimum wage in the United States of America was? GE:I would guess 80 cents, 85 cents. LA:Very good- 75 cents an hour. The reason I remember it so vividly, when we started in September of 1955, the Union had asked us- because the Union wanted to show how much they were doing for the employees- so rather than start them off at the minimum wage of 75 cents an hour, we started them at a minimum wage of 80 cents an hour. The Union was able to show its membership what a great concession they managed to squeeze out of the employer. GE:Now what would the wage have been in New York? LA:The wage in New York was at that time probably $1.25 to $1.50. I don't have to tell you the cost of living in the New York metropolitan area as compared especially at that time to living in this area. SC:Did you live in Fleetwood? LA:No, no. And it was easy for us to decide because we were making regular trips back to New York to visit her parents. And it was a heck of a lot closer from Allentown to New York than it was from Reading. It was either you were going to live in Allentown or live in Reading, although it probably would have made a little more sense because Fleetwood, Pennsylvania is probably 40% away from Reading and 60% away from Allentown, so Reading was really closer to Fleetwood. It's in Berks County and Allentown is of course in Lehigh County. SC:And were there a lot of clothing factories? I know the outlets were there for a long time in Reading. LA:Oh yeah, there were a lot. Fortunately at the time- and Fleetwood is a very small town. I would tell people the way you knew it was Fleetwood was because there were three signs, each ten yards apart. The first one "You are now entering, you are now in, you have just left Fleetwood, Pennsylvania." It was a tiny community. What made it a little difficult around the Fleetwood-Kutztown area was that Kutztown during World War II was German and Pennsylvania-Dutch. Pennsylvania-Dutch came from northern Germany and on the border of the Netherlands. And Pennsylvania-Dutch, there was bigotry. In Fleetwood I remember the Union appoints a chair-lady. A chair-lady is the person who represents the employees on the lowest level, meaning grievances. Eva Kunkel, early on she said something and I almost threw her down a flight of stairs. I don't even want to go into what she said. But the one thing I will say is that as the years went by, and it's a long time, but rather quickly, I would say within 10 or 15 years-- both my father and I were very fair employers- there was acceptance. And today I still see people that worked for me. I'm still in Fleetwood, and that's another page of the story. Even though the factory is no longer in existence, I'll take you to that when we get there during the interview. So we found that we were accepted, and we were fair and treated employees very fairly. GE:What would you say would be some of the practices that you had which demonstrate that you were fair employers, and tried to treat the employees fairly? LA:There were many, many cases where there were voluntary wage increases that exceeded the union's agreement. In those days everything was not done on an hourly basis. It was referred to as piece-rate, and of course it was in dozens. The employee received so much per dozen for attaching the collar to the shirt. And these rates were negotiated by the Union, but they had no idea because they didn't have time-study engineers. What they did is they saw what another factory had- and I can still remember there was, I don't know if you heard of Harris Weinstein. Harris owned Dorney Park. We're still friends, even though we were competitors. His daughter, I'm still friends with- Edie Miller- I'm going to see her tomorrow. Her husband, Chester Miller, died just about a year ago. She was the daughter of Izzie Weinstein, the sister to Harris Weinstein. GE:Harris Weinstein, is he still alive? LA:Yes, he lives in Florida. But he's been out of the textile business. He went from Dorney Park to real estate among other things. But I would remember Izzie Weinstein. He spoke with a very heavy accent. I would be in the office or something and Izzie Weinstein would have called my father. SC:Today is August 21st, 2012. Interview, tape number two with Lenny Abrams. So you were talking about Izzie Weinstein. LA:Yes. So Isador Weinstein had a factory in Northampton, Pennsylvania- Clyde Shirt Company. And they were friendly, and the phone would ring and my father would answer the phone, and it was Izzie Weinstein. The conversation would go something like this- "Hello Joe, how are you? What are you paying for a collar setting? I'm fine Izzie, and how are you? And by the way, how much are you paying for sleeve setting?" And the conversation would go on like this for five or six minutes, with each one asking a question, and the other party never answering the question. And then the conversation would end something like this- "Ok Joe, it was nice talking to you. Bye!" Everything was not by the hour, it was piece-rated. So you would say it was fair in many, many cases, although the union said that the piece-rate for attaching the collar to these shirts was 40 cents a dozen. Once I got there and I pretty much involved myself in all the sewing. My father, as I told you, was in the cutting department. And after a while I would realize that 40 cents a dozen for attaching collars- the operator cannot make it. You know, she cannot make a living wage at that piece-rate price. So therefore, I would go to the group of four collar setters, and I would call them into the office and tell them that effective Monday, instead of the piece-rate price being 40 cents a dozen for attaching or setting collars to those shirts, the rate starting next week is 48 cents a dozen. So then, at least in my own mind, I knew that a good operator who was diligent and did it correctly could make a living wage at 48 cents a dozen, which was 20 percent more than the 40 cents. SC:And no one talks about a living wage anymore in 2012. LA:Yeah, I know. And of course we did that from 1955 to 1985. And I was manufacturing shirts for the finest names. I was manufacturing shirts for Saks Fifth Avenue, Bergdorf. On one occasion when my father was in his 90s, I had to go to New York, and I went into Bergdorf Goodman. and I saw a shirt that I had made. It was a formal shirt to be worn with a tuxedo, and I just asked the sales person to please take it out to look at it. Then I whispered to my father, who was in wonderful physical condition and walking twice around Trexler Park in his late 90s. Then when I asked the sales price to the sales person and he said $180, my father whispered in my ear, "Lenny that's for a dozen isn't it?" He knew it, but that was his way of telling me the way things had changed. SC:You must have garnered an awful lot of loyalty from the people who had worked for you? LA:Of course, or otherwise we wouldn't have remained there. I'm going to jump ahead- the plant operator from 1955 to 2000, when I closed it in the year 2000. From 1955 to 1985 I went along and I was a shirt contractor. In 1985 my younger daughter married a gentleman named Paul Sacher, who is still in town. And they both had received masters in business administration from Tulane University, where they met. My daughter had graduated from Duke and then after a year or two of employment in the banking area, went to Tulane for her masters and they met. They were divorced a year-and-a-half ago, but the relationship between myself and my ex-son-in-law is just wonderful. In fact, at the time, I told my daughter Cathy that's strictly between the two of you, but certainly you understand that our 26 year relationship is wonderful. It really is, because the kids have grown up and they haven't suffered. But in any case, by 1985 I had not only the one factory in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania, I had opened a second factory in 1976 in Millville, New Jersey, which is just south of Vineland. And I was also a partner in a factory in New Orleans, Louisiana at that time. And once again the gentleman I was partners with was a very fine manufacturer, and he wanted to have a plant, so we were partners in the factory. I created the factory for him. New Orleans at that time was very fortunate, because there were a lot of Vietnamese who had come and settled in the New Orleans area because of the fishing industry. And they were very, very good when they were taught. They have marvelous manual dexterity, terrific manual dexterity. SC:And a good work ethic? LA:Oh yes. And I don't know if you're going to want to delete this from the interview, but what you never hear from American politicians, whether they are Democratic or Republican is that going back to the year 2000, I'm not familiar with it in the year 2012, but the Chinese or Vietnamese counterpart to the American sewing machine operator, in addition to being paid 10% of what the American counterpart is making, they are at least 150% as productive. So now the 10 to 1 wage edge becomes a 15 to 1 wage edge ; but you don't hear that. So 1985 rolls around, and my son-in-law realized that we had all of the ingredients to-- catalog was very big, the internet was just on the horizon, and you could see it coming. So we went into a separate business called Paul Frederick Men's Style Inc. SC:May we have one of the catalogs? LA:Yes, these are for you. SC:So we're going back to Paul Frederick, your brand, as online ordering started. LA:Well it started off as a little brochure, a four or five page brochure- buy a white shirt made by the best fabric, the best make, and we advertised in the United States at that time. SC:In the Wall Street Journal? LA:Yes, in the Wall Street Journal and space ads inside of page two. GE:And you were doing this as direct marketing? LA:Yes, direct marketing. Suddenly, from a shirt contractor who made shirts for other manufacturers, who then sold it to the consumer, suddenly we were going direct to the consumer. We were even eliminating the manufacturer, and of course there were tremendous price advantages for the consumer. And from the little space ads, it then became a little brochure that was mailed out to the small mailing list we had. And of course as the years passed, we probably sent out 36 different catalogs a year- nine per season- for each of four seasons. And then of course Paul recognized the fact that the internet was the shopping experience of tomorrow, and we created for Paul Frederick an internet presence, which if you go on the internet you will see a lot more than you are seeing here. GE:So it is very much catalog and internet? LA:Yes, it has evolved into not only shirts. As you can see it is men's suits, outerwear, and neckties. What we did was there was a natural evolution once he came aboard in 1985 or 1986, and as we saw shirts we were initially using for the photographs a few ties of mine. And suddenly some of the customers were saying, "Boy that was a nice tie on page two!" Of course there was only one of them, which I had purchased. Well the natural evolution, as long as it was initially dress shirts, and then it became neckwear. After neckwear then it became men's sport shirts and dress shirts. And then it became men's accessories- leather belts, shoes, suits, sport jackets, trousers. GE:And all of this is high-end? LA:Yes, it is all high-end. SC:And where are they manufactured? LA:Today, all are manufactured offshore. I would say we still do some manufacturing in Italy ; some of our ties are still made in Italy, and some of our clothing and trousers are made in Italy. We also make a few products in South America, but 90% of the product comes from the Far East. SC:And do you actually own the manufacturing companies? LA:No. And the Chinese have become so adept and so proficient. I tell the story which only happened a year-and-a-half ago. When you go back to the late 1970s, early 1980s, something suddenly presented itself. Remember where I told you my father, Joe Abrams, would move the patterns around, and he was called the marker because he traced around the pattern, located it here and moved this here. Suddenly our industry became CAD-CAM. What is CAD-CAM? Computer Assisted Design, Computer Assisted Manufacture. I was in Asia a year-and-a-half ago in Guangdong Province, China, and our main vendor is a wonderful man who we have a wonderful relationship with. He is especially wonderful because he knows I know. There are not many guys who he comes in contact with, so he enjoys my presence even more because he takes such pride in what he and his people do. So he shows me into a room which is all Computer Assisted Design, all computers and all Asian people. Finally one man turns around and he's not Asian, and he looks at me and says, "Lenny Abrams!?" And I say, "Al Panebianco!?" I turn to my merchandising manager and I say, "I told you I know everybody." This was a guy from Philadelphia, older than me by four or five years. I had gotten to know him, and I really tried to learn from him because I knew he was way upfront with Computer Assisted Design and Manufacturing. It was Al Pane, but I still called him Panebianco because that was his real name. Even though he was retired, it turns out that he spends two six-week periods every year, 12 out of every 52 weeks, he spends in China as a consultant for this man that owned the plant that I do business with. One Caucasian in Guangdong Province and Lenny Abrams knows him- 34 million Chinese. So getting back, we evolved from the mid-1980s to the present with a company that is really thriving. But as long as we are going to do it, people are going to say the jobs are taken away from us. America lost jobs. Well, we look at it this way- I look at it a little differently. Sure there were 200 manufacturing jobs that existed in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania for Fleetwood Shirts, which was the name of the company. Let's say for a moment those 200 jobs generated at the time $20,000 a year. Well if you multiply 200 jobs by $20,000, I think you're going to come up with $4 million. Well today there are no manufacturing jobs, but we employ about 120 and probably the average earnings are $60,000 a year. Well now multiply 120 by $60,000- that's $7.2 million, as opposed to the $4 million. GE:So you still employ 120 people? LA:Sure. We have telemarketers, we have marketing people, merchandising people, and we pick and pack. Another building became available. We realized the building the factory was located in-- and don't forget it started in 1985, and I was still manufacturing-- that building wasn't going to become available for Paul Frederick anyway. So we had a makeshift building, and then this became available-- it's a 66,000 one-story building in Fleetwood that originally manufactured these huge freezers that you see in supermarkets-- you know, the huge freezers in the back. They were manufacturing and the company went bankrupt. We bought the building, converted it completely, and today it is more because we've added square footage over the years. We probably bought the building in the early 1990s, I forgot but I could certainly check. So we probably owned the building for 20 years in that area now-- and have added square footage to the building on several occasions. SC:So that's where Paul Frederick is located? LA:Yes. We also have our own photographic studio, which we were initially photographing in New York. But we do almost all of our own photography these days, which is also a big savings. GE:So in a sense is this product line akin to what somebody would buy at Nordstrom? LA:Yes, the product line today- our biggest competitors would be Brooks Brothers, Joseph A. Bank, and Nordstrom. Those are our primary competitors. GE:Right, and where they are retailers you are a catalog-- LA:But don't forget, so is Brooks Brothers today. GE:But they still have stores. LA:Yes, they have brick and mortar. GE:And you're not brick and mortar. LA:Think of us as Amazon versus Wal-Mart. Compare Amazon to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is bricks and mortar, and Amazon is absolutely no bricks and mortar ; all, everything online. Certainly with technology improving all of the time, we're now into trying to see what other people are doing and developing. If only we could get you to be able to touch and feel, because if you go shopping, boy it's nice sometimes to feel that fabric, especially clothes. To try it on, the virtual-- how do you create the virtual fitting room online. These are things that are not going to be in my lifetime anymore but it's going to come-- it will be there. GE:This interests me because I teach marketing. So this is also a lot like database marketing, and a database of people? LA:Yes. We have probably a 12 month mailing list today of 250,000. GE:Well I want you to know my son just graduated law school and starts in October at a law firm, but I am going to say this to him, because I know that he needs to have very good shirts and suits. And I assume this is cheaper. LA:See if he is going to, you should tell him to go to the section which has- he just graduated law school, he's not married is he? Single? GE:He just got married two weeks ago. LA:Does she like washing shirts? GE:I'm sure she doesn't. LA:Well we're not going to talk about that! There is an entire section which reads, "No Iron." GE:And these are still very fine? LA:Oh yes, they are very fine. Trust me, you just throw it in the washer and dry it and it comes out fine since it is all cotton, it's not a synthetic. GE:He's telling me, because he had ordered a shirt for his wedding from a place- I'm sure it was made in China- from a tailor that measures you and whatever. LA:Hong Kong, maybe? GE:Right, but he lives in Chicago, and in Chicago somebody measured him. I think it was $90 or $100, which to me is a lot of money. And I said that is ridiculous, but he said, "Mom, it fits so nicely, and for work that's what I'm going to do." LA:Well tell him to try one! I take pleasure in my declining years-- GE:You know, this is the only one that's still alive and in operation. In part it sounds like to me we can't compete being the producer. You can only compete frankly having the brand. LA:As a matter of fact we just had a woman who came in and spent two full days with us from Colorado- was a branding expert. We brought her in and she lectured, and up until yesterday I had her 280 page report- I brought it into the office because I was reading it there. SC:Do you think that because you did go to college for business, do you think that made a difference in the way you see the world? LA:You know, I like to think it did because there were some basic principles in accounting- I was an accounting major- and certainly the knowledge of numbers and the ability to read a balance sheet properly, and the ability to read somebody else's balance sheet. Along about even before, oh it must have been in the 1970s, there were several firms- one was Eagle Clothing, an American clothing manufacturer who operated in Manhattan and Brooklyn. And they made an offer to buy the plant because they figured as long as they had tailored clothing and shirts. And of course all of these potential transactions were going to be stock-based, because you weren't getting money ; you were getting somebody else's paper and somebody else's stock certificates. And at that particular time, and there were two instances, Eagle was just one of them, and I looked at their balance sheet and their P& ; L statement, and I said you know, I just don't think they're going to be able to continue with the bottom-line that they've been able to do up until now because this is going to increase. Well that arose from my ability to be able to read a statement, whether it be a P& ; L or a balance sheet as a result of the education that the School of Commerce gave me. I would like to think that some of the reason for whatever success there was, was education-based. SC:So this is tape 3, interview with Lenny Abrams. Today is August 21, 2012. So maybe we could move back a little bit and talk about your mother's family? LA:Yes. I indicated that my mother was born in the United States. She was a year older than my father- born the year 1899. GE:Her name was Sarah? LA:Sarah Pomerantz. GE:And where is her family from? LA:From, I'm not even sure- Eastern Europe. But once again, born in the United States in a live poultry market. A father and mother-- GE:When did they come? LA:Well my mother was born in the United States in 1899, so I would guess they probably came somewhere between 1880 and 1890. GE:And did she have other siblings? LA:Oh yes. She had a twin brother and two other brothers, and another set of twins- a brother and a sister who were twins. GE:And was everybody born here? LA:Yes. Everybody had to be born here because she was the oldest. She and her twin brother were the oldest. GE:And did her parents come already as a married couple? LA:Yes. SC:And there are Pomerantzs in Bethlehem, I believe. LA:Unrelated. There was a Pomerantz right here in Allentown. There was Danny Pomerantz, and I knew Danny well. GE:I think he was a lawyer? LA:Yes. He was a past president as well of the Federation as I am, but he was unrelated. We had gotten into that on more than one occasion. SC:So the poultry market- they were living in New York also in Brooklyn, in the Williamsburg area? LA:No, they were living in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. SC:Ok and they had a poultry market? LA:The poultry market was located in I think the Bronx. So they traveled by subway to the poultry market- I think it was in the Bronx. We always managed to talk more about my father's side of the family. You think there were these skeletons in the closet on my mother's side? Possibly? SC:We all have them! And so one of the issues we're interested in is the entrepreneurship that seems to run in families. And maybe it's not in the needle-trade but-- LA:It's interesting that you mention it because in my mother's family, her twin brother owned a live poultry market. The next brother owned a service station, a gas station in Lower Manhattan. The next brother owned a women's pocketbook factory in Brooklyn, New York. And the youngest- one of whom, they were twins, a brother and a sister- he had a service station in Brooklyn on DeKalb Avenue. And I remember that because he helped me to purchase my first car- a used Chevy. GE:On your father's side, he was one also of several? LA:He was one of six. GE:How about on that side of the family- were they also in little businesses? LA:His brother- he had one brother and four sisters. Interestingly enough on his side he had a sister, who was his favorite sister, who worked for him many years in the factory in the office. And when my father passed away in 2006-- GE:So she lived in this area? She came to this area, his sister?LA:No, no. Don't forget that was just in Brooklyn. Once he moved out of Brooklyn that was done, and then she passed away. But when he passed away in 2006, he was survived by a younger sister who lived several years- Aunt Frieda. Now Frieda-- I didn't know her very well-- but I knew from listening to my father that Frieda never had one good day her entire life. She was married to an abusive husband, one daughter who stopped speaking to her-- and that was interesting. So my father once a month would always send a check to Aunt Frieda, and the caregivers would remind me- because for the last couple of years he could no longer write. I would send a check to Aunt Frieda once a month. And the caregivers would remind me on those days to not forget to send a check to Aunt Frieda. Well, now my father passed away, and the only time I was speaking to Aunt Frieda since she never made long distance calls as she lives in some place in Long Island. And she'd call me to remind me that she didn't get any mail from me. Well I never wrote Aunt Frieda long letters, I'd only send checks. GE:Right, that was the polite way of saying yet. LA:That was her polite way of saying it, that your check never came. And then I guess it was only about two years ago that she passed away. So there certainly was longevity in my father's-- well I should say that my mother passed away in-- My father and mother died on the same day 13 years apart. GE:So it sounds like on your mother's side they were all in little businesses? LA:Yeah. They were entrepreneurs on my mother's side. And on my father's side one younger brother was in business for himself, unfortunately not successfully. GE:Why do you think, what is your understanding or your thoughts about why that was so common in the Jewish community-- as opposed to other communities? LA:It's an excellent question and of course if we today, if we were to think of your children and my children, well of course we stress education. We stress the desire of moving up the socio-economic ladder. That was certainly not the case with my maternal grandmother, nor was it the case with my paternal grandfather or grandmother. I have to believe that what it was, was the ability of people like my father and all the others to see that in those days the United States was truly a place where you could better yourself. If you worked hard, if you learned as much as you could about what you were doing, and worked hard at it, there was opportunity. It truly, in those years from early in the 20th century, from 1911 going forward, the United States was the land of opportunity-- especially for entrepreneurs. It didn't come from their parents in my father and mother's generation, but they had enough street smarts to realize this themselves. They looked around, and they said, "Look at that guy over there. He's got his own business-- I know he's not a whole lot smarter than me. He didn't really have a whole lot more money than I did when I started. Why not? Why can't I follow in those footsteps?" There was opportunity. They recognized the opportunity and they jumped at it. GE:Well you know on your mother's side it sounds like even her parents-- LA:Oh yeah. I was not as close-- I never knew my maternal grandfather. And my maternal grandmother-- there was always of course the language problem because all of the three grandparents of mine, none of the three spoke English. It was only Yiddish. You learn some Yiddish as you go along, but certainly not enough to become completely conversational. SC:Do you think that people stayed within the community, the ethnic and religious community, to further their business initially? LA:I think initially that was it. And then of course they realized that you couldn't inhibit yourself by remaining in a capsule or remaining in one tiny little niche. So they adventured out of that cloistered environment, realizing that it was a big country. GE:And those that didn't perhaps didn't prosper as well? LA:Of course there was, needless to say, and I should have mentioned, because from my business in addition to what this is, Rose Cathy has a business. She became very interested in horses when she was 11. And after she graduated from Tulane, and after her brief banking [career] of a year or two, she wanted to become an entrepreneur. So she has a niche where she makes the finest riding shirts for women who ride horses-- you see them in the Olympics, you see them in shows. The name of her company is Essex Classics, Inc. And she has a very nice thriving business which you see all around here-- she's gradually moving me out slowly. GE:Is this also an internet business? LA:Yes, because once again she sells to many of the stores that are both represented in catalogs and on the internet. She has only begun to sell directly to the consumer in a small way with what are called clearance closeouts. But everything else is through the retail establishment, and in most cases there is a physical presence-- bricks and mortar in those cases. So she is also from that, and has created a related kind of a business. Related in that I helped her to get started, and then she took the ball and ran with it. GE:And even your business initially, even from 1955 to 1985, you made shirts, but you always made fine shirts. LA:If you wanted fine shirts, you came to Lenny Abrams. GE:And when you say that, was that just on the different manufacturers-- would they go to you just from the east coast? Did you have a national reputation, a regional reputation? LA:I would say it was more regional, but then again the men's clothing industry was always centered around Manhattan. Of course as the years passed there was a distinct presence in other large metropolitan areas as well. Certainly New York was the base of the textile industry. SC:Can we move to what you've done within the larger community? LA:Sure. Certainly I'm a supporter of the causes throughout the community. I always had a special interest in supporting and being involved in the Jewish community. Early on I was a board member in the Jewish Community Center-- GE:So you came here in the mid 1950s- how old were your children at the time? LA:One was born in New York in 1955. Cathy was born in Allentown in 1956-- a year and eight days apart. But she was born here in Allentown. We moved here in September or October of 1955, and she was born in May of 1966. SC:Did you always live in this house? LA:No. We lived in Valley View Apartments, number 209 for two years. GE:And Valley View Apartments are where? LA:Valley View Apartments, if you take a ride over, if you're on the South Side go over the 15th Street Bridge. Valley View Apartments if you drive around there today and there's a good chance you'll be the only Caucasian. Then we moved and built a house on Greenleaf and 25th Street- the southeast corner of Greeleaf and 25th. We moved into the house in 1957. So we lived in Valley View Apartments for two years, and the reason we bought the house- the lot was $3,000, and I could afford to spend $22,000 for the house, so that the whole cost was not more than $25,000. GE:And I'm sorry, where was that? LA:2446 Greenleaf Street- the southeast corner of Greenleaf and 25th Street. GE:You want to know who I think lives there? LA:Arnold Finklestein, Arnold and Marlene Finklestein built a lovely house just on the other corner. GE:I was thinking that Barbara Weinrach lives right near there. My children went to her to play piano. LA:Yes. Barbara Weinrach taught my granddaughter for a while. They may still live around there. GE:I remember it was somewhere right around there. LA:And then we lived there, and actually we lived there until 1991. We've only been in this house for 21 years. SC:So you've worked in the community just generally? LA:No. After serving as a board member for the Jewish Community Center, I became more interested in the Federation. I was Campaign Chair, and then I was President for two years. When Ivan Schonfeld was the Executive Director, I was President at that time-- for at least two of those years. GE:And at the JCC you were a board member? LA:Yes. I'm still an honorary Vice President of the Federation, and I'm an honorary board member, I think for life or something like that. SC:Was your wife also involved? LA:She was not involved to the extent that I was. She was always active in Hadassah and other organizations, but not in leadership roles. She preferred to take a backseat. SC:And as far as the general community is concerned, the Allentown community, did you get involved in any organizations? GE:Or even the Association business-wise? LA:I know I got a gift from Mayor Daddona once for doing something but I don't even remember what it was. I was also honored somewhere back for Israel bonds at a dinner. My father and mother were alive then, and so it was for the family because we purchased Israel bonds. SC:And did you work with Arnold Delin in his association? LA:No. Don't forget Arnold Dellin's association was to represent manufacturers that were controlled by the International Ladies Garment Workers' Union. Arnold, or as I call him "Armold"-- because I know him very well-- Arnold had nothing to do with menswear. SC:So you knew him as a friend, not involved with his association? LA:Right. And I watched with interest his declining membership, and I pointed out some 20 years before it broke up that he was going to wind up with two. SC:As the contractors moved south-- LA:As the contractors disappeared-- it wasn't only a question of moving South. Some used the South as an intermediary stopping point on the way to Asia or Central America, or Mexico. Some didn't-- some were smart enough to figure out, "why should I go from the slate belt of Pennsylvania to Mississippi for 2.5 years when I'm going to end up in the Far East?" GE:And a lot just left-- they left the whole industry. I'm assuming also, I don't know if this is correct or not, but as it became more productive, I assume they just needed fewer of the contractors. The same factory was just producing more shirts than they were used to producing. LA:The same factory in the United States? GE:Right, or wherever it was. Here and then later there-- it was becoming more automated. LA:No. The textile industry became somewhat automated, but nothing comparable to so many other industries. I remember Keebler had a factory right on I-78, which employed one person. So our industry became somewhat automated. The Computer Assisted Design and Manufacturers helped, but the greatest assistance that came- instead of somebody standing at a table with huge patterns. It was all reduced to miniatures on a screen, and you moved it around on a screen and pressed a button. That's where the primary move came. Most of these products in the textile industry are labor-intensive products. A shirt is a very labor intensive product. GE:Is it still? LA:Yes, it's a very labor intensive product. Quite obviously the more complicated the garment, the more of an intensity of labor is needed. The more intense the labor requirements, the greater the benefit of going overseas. To make something very simple- let's look at a napkin, just sewing the four edges-- you could probably still make that in the United States, because labor is such an insignificant part of that product. This shirt for example, the labor is a very, very significant part. SC:And I really like that shirt by the way- it's a very nice shirt. LA:Even at age 81, I'm proud of what I think I've been able to accomplish over a 57 year period or whatever it is. SC:And it's still going. LA:Yeah. And I still enjoy going in several times a week. I would have been there today had we not had this interview. Because quite candidly-- and I love Nate Braunstein who is a dear friend of mine and Milten Sheftel who I have known forever. I find that by staying active, even at this age, that only I believe it, whether it's true, that I'm somewhat better off than some of my contemporaries who have stopped doing that. SC:I have two very filmy questions- getting deeper-into-things questions. The first one is: what has made you feel the most creative in life? LA:Creative? SC:In the broadest sense ; artistic or creative? LA:I'm not an especially creative or artistic person. My wife was very creative and artistic. I pride myself more in the ability to execute. SC:That's creative! That's very creative! LA:Given a certain scenario, I am probably best at bringing that from the creative birth, to the finished unit. SC:But it's a practical creativity. LA:I can, you know, the years have given me an insight, and I can recognize probably more quickly than some people in terms of what is going to be good and what is not going to be good. I must say that I'm not the most creative or artistic guy that there ever was. If I rated myself from one to ten on an artistic-creative scale, I'd be down around two, three, or four. I'm not going to be up to six, seven, eight, nine, ten. But I can execute. SC:Do you think that's a key to what makes a good business person? LA:I think if you are going to manufacture something, you better damn well know how to execute ; because that is where it's at. Getting it from what somebody thinks is going to be really good to a finished product with everything it takes to alter this, that, compromise this or that, but get to the finished product. I think that's my strong suit. GE:And of the various types of executions that you've done over the years, is there any that you feel would be at the apex of what you thought made you the most proud? LA:I think that the ability to sit with you today, at this age, and know that with my help and assistance, and whatever cooperation, that this survives. And my daughter has Essex Classics, which is very successful. I think that is what gives me the most pride-- the fact that so many other people that I know were able to go so far. And then whether the sign of the times, the inability to move faster into another area, where they have given up, I managed to survive it and still be a presence today at this point. SC:What do you value most in life? LA:I think- I always tell this to my daughter-- character. I often say to my daughter and my ex-son-in-law, if I interview somebody for a job, the most important thing to me, and I've learned that, is not do they have the knowledge and the capability right now to do this job. That's secondary. Do they have character? Because you either have it or you don't. So the ability to tell and to discern character in somebody else. I had in 1976-- I was operating in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania-- and the accounting firm I used was in New York City. They sent out somebody to do the quarterly audit for me in the business. This particular occasion it was a very heavyset, very young, heavy-accented Italian man. And in order to be polite during his first visit-- his name was Rossolino Alino. I said Ross, if you need a place to stay tonight- I recommended the Holiday Inn on 309 and 22, which is now a Days Inn, I believe. Earlier in the day he said, "I thank you but I don't need a place to stay because I have a friend in Kutztown." All day long this guy with a very heavy Italian accent from New York, I'm thinking, "How does he wind up with a Pennsylvania-Dutch friend?" Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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01:26:36
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Leonard Abrams, August 21, 2012
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Lenny Abrams talks about his father working in a men’s shirt factory, losing his job during the Great Depression, working as a Union Agent representing the workers in their quest for better pay and work conditions, and then opening his own factory years later making fine men’s shirts. Lenny Abram’s business is one of the few where three generations of owners retired: Lenny, his father, and his former son-in-law. Lenny’s son-in-law successfully adapted the business from contract manufacturing to direct marketing first by catalogue and, later, e-commerce.
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LVTNT-35
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2012-08-21
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Shirley Berman
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-32.xml
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5.4 June 24, 2013 Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013 LVTNT-32 56:19 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Shirley Berman Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BermanShirley_20130624.mp4 1.0:|25(11)|48(4)|71(9)|86(7)|105(4)|124(3)|141(16)|158(6)|177(13)|196(14)|223(10)|250(6)|271(8)|296(5)|323(7)|342(19)|357(17)|378(17)|405(8)|420(3)|439(14)|456(3)|475(7)|494(8)|517(8)|544(5)|565(5)|586(13)|611(4)|622(13)|643(12)|666(10)|687(3)|708(11)|725(15)|740(15)|763(5)|786(17)|823(6)|848(15)|897(4)|944(6)|969(6)|986(6)|1005(13)|1032(8)|1051(15)|1088(4)|1111(5)|1144(9)|1169(12)|1188(9)|1227(11)|1262(5)|1311(9)|1340(13)|1349(8) 0 https://youtu.be/M1O5Ts9DK8E YouTube video 0 Family History SC: Shirley, may I ask what your full name is including your maiden name and when you were born.
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 ; SB: Shirley Isabelle Malenovsky Berman, and I was born August 14, 1922 and I would like to say welcome to you two lovely ladies.
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 ; SC: Well thank you.
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 ; SB: It’s nice to have you here in my home. 0 833 Shirley Berman's Husband's Family SC: Can we talk a little bit about your husband’s family?
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 ; SB: Sure, My husband was in the army and when he got out of the army, he had worked before for a company in New Jersey somewhere. He and his brother worked for a company.
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 ; GE: What was his brother’s name?
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 ; SB: Rubin.
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 ; GE: So it’s Harry and Rubin. 0 1200 Shirley's Involvement in the Business SC: So after you and Harry were married, did you become involved in the business at all?
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 ; SB: I was involved in the sense that we socialized with his customers and a lot of them didn’t want Harry to come without me. We always traveled together, we went to Europe – all over together. We went to Europe a couple of times a year. A lot of his business was in Europe. 0 1351 The Business SC: Can you explain what you know of the business process?
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 ; SB: He had the first computerized textile machine in the country. The machines were computerized and he could design on the machine itself. He had one of the largest textile businesses in the country, until knitting started to decline. Then fortunately he got out in time and we enjoyed the rest of our lives together as much as we could. 0 1692 Later Family History GE: How about Harry’s education?
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 ; SB: He graduated from high school and then he went two years to night school – night college.
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 ; GE: Was that after the war on the G.I. Bill or was that before the war?
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 ; SB: Well, he graduated high school before the war.
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 ; GE: Right, but how about college?
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 ; SB: It could have been after. He went to a school for design – I forget what you call it.
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 ; GE: Like – I know in Philadelphia – there is the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science. 0 2047 Shirley's Father's Business During the Great Depression GE: And your father’s business managed to stay okay during the Depression?
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 ; SB: They managed – they managed to be fine – they wound up good. We never realized how good they were – we were never told as children their situation. We were just happy for them. I had good parents. It wasn’t like today, we didn’t have the problems that we have today – none of the problems with any of our children. It was a good life, a simple life, my parents never spoiled us, and I never realized the position they were in until after my father passed away. We enjoyed what we had. 0 2166 Connections to Jewish Community SC: When you were a child did you play mostly with kids in the neighborhood, or did you have more connections to the Jewish community?
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 ; SB: I used to walk, when we lived on 5th Street - I used to go to Hebrew School. I used to walk myself coming home at night – I don’t know if you know Allentown – from Fifth Street, the north end – we lived below Washington on Fifth. I walked from there all the way to Sixth and Chew – this would be where the Jewish Community Center was – myself to go to Hebrew School at night. In the winter, it was dark – I never had any qualms about walking. 0 2522 Shirley's Education GE: Right. Tell us about your education. Where did you go to school?
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 ; SC: That’s what I was going to ask.
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 ; SB: My education- first I went to the school at 5th and Washington St.. It was called Garfield. At that time they told me I had the highest IQ of anyone in the school they had had. 
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 ; GE: Wow.
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 ; SB: So that was nice to hear as a youngster. Then we moved, and I went up to Raub Jr. High School. And then from there I went to Allentown High School. 0 2753 More Involvement in the Jewish Community SC: So can you talk a little bit about, were you involved in the community, the larger community, or the Jewish community?
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 ; SB: I was active, yes I was active as a young woman, I was active in Hadassah. I was on the board. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was the secretary for a number of years. Well, I wasn’t active at the- I was a life member at the Jewish Community Center. But I wasn’t active per se. And I was active with my own things, you know, my own friends and family.
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 ; SC: Right, you own life. How about Harry? Was he very active in either these organizations or professional organizations?
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 ; SB: Yes, he was.
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 ; GE: What was he involved in?
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 ; SB: He was part of the Jewish Federation, he was part of the different organizations- I can’t think of a name. 0 2887 Memories of Business Employees GE: [A]ny good memories that you have about his employees, at all? Any of the employees, local employees? First of all, how many? Do you know what was the size, how many workers there were?
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 ; SB: He had a big factory. See this is why I said, I didn’t think I could give you too much information.
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 ; GE: That’s okay.
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 ; SB: No, let me think. I would safely say that between the three different businesses that he owned, I would say that he hired maybe a couple thousand.
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 ; SC: Wow, that's big.
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 ; SB: Yeah, maybe more, but I don’t want to say more.
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 ; GE: Now when you say the three businesses, it’s the fabric-
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 ; SB: Yeah and then the two other factories.
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 ; GE: And then the two factories.
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 ; SB: Yeah so safely I would say maybe a couple thousand.
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 ; GE: That’s big. 0 2964 How Has Allentown Changed Since You Were Young? SC: Well, in your whole life, let's start with that. How has Allentown changed since you were young?
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 ; SB: How about what?
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 ; SC: Allentown has changed since you were young.
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 ; SB: Oh yes, of course. There’s so much more going on in Allentown now. So much more building. So many more businesses and organizations and growth in the city of Allentown. Even in the population, people have come here from New Jersey and New York. They come here to live, because it's better living for them. They come from New York and New Jersey, there is great growth here in Allentown.
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 ; SC: Is it a different climate than when you were a child?
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 ; SB: Yes it is. It’s a different climate like it is all over the world, unfortunately. And, more things happening here that shouldn’t be happening, but, there is good growth and there is also evil growth, which is throughout the world now unfortunately. 0 3063 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: So I have two really sort of filmy questions, just feeling questions, first of all what do you value in life most?
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 ; SB: What do I what?
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 ; SC: Value in life most.
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 ; SB: I value my family. That’s number one in my life. My friends, and I am blessed to have a wonderful family. Both my own personal family and my nieces, nephews, their families, and my own families, and also my wonderful friends, as well as terrific doctors who have kept me living, and to whom I really owe my life. And nurses, and I’m blessed to have them as my personal friends. I am. 0 3125 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative? SC: And what have you- has made you feel the most creative?
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 ; SB: Pardon?
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 ; SC: The most creative in your life.
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 ; SB: The most creative in my life. Well, my children are creative, in their own way, each one. I appreciate that in them, in each one. My oldest is in a videotaping business. 0 MovingImage Shirley Berman talks about growing up in Allentown. Her father’s ancestors (Malenovsky family) were among the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. Elias Malenovsky was a founder of the first synagogue in Allentown down on 2nd St. Later, Shirley married Harry Berman. Harry owned Fair-Tex Mills, one of the largest knitting mills in the U.S. and the first to use computerized textile machines. Shirley proudly shared that she accompanied her husband regularly on business trips throughout Europe and always enjoyed entertaining customers and vendors.
 ; An Interview with Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Shirley, may I ask what your full name is including your maiden name and when you were born. SHIRLEY BERMAN: Shirley Isabelle Malenovsky Berman, and I was born August 14, 1922 and I would like to say welcome to you two lovely ladies. SC: Well thank you. SB: It's nice to have you here in my home. SC: And a beautiful home, absolutely beautiful and beautiful tea that we just had. Where were you born? SB: I was born in the Sacred Heart Hospital in Allentown many, many years ago. I'm not going to tell you -- you can figure it out yourself. SC: Where did you live as a small child? SB: As a child, we lived on North 5th St. until we moved up to -- we went West. You know what they say, "go west young man" - well the young lady went West to 16th Street. GAIL EISENBERG: What year was that? Or how old were you? SB: I was about 12 or 13 so that would have been in '35-'34 in that area. SC: So when you were living on 5th Street in South Allentown, was there a Synagogue there? SB: Yes, there was the Congregation Sons of Israel at that time on North 6th Street, a couple of blocks from where we lived -- we lived on North 5th Street. SC: Is that building still there? SB: Yes it is, I think it became a Greek church at one time, I don't know if it still is, but possibly. It was a lovely building -- stone building. GE: And that building was at 6th and what? SB: 6th and Tilghman. SC: My husband and I drove to -- actually to one of our friend's fathers who passed away, and we drove in that area and he was trying to tell me what he remembered because he was born in Allentown--so we'll go back again and look for it. SB: We used to walk to the Temple from where we lived - it was just a couple of blocks. SC: When you moved to 16th Street, did the Synagogue relocate at that time? SB: No, the Synagogue at that time was a small, little building at about 12th or 13th -- I think it was Thirteenth & ; Walnut Street. As a matter of fact, my brother's bar mitzvah was the last bar mitzvah in that little synagogue. Then we moved up here to 17th and Hamilton Street, where they built Temple Beth El. SC: How about your parents, can you tell me as much as you can about them -- where they were born, where their families were from and where they lived. SB: My mother was from Burlington, Vermont. My father lived in Allentown and through a cousin of my father's, I believe it was -- in upstate New York State -- they met. That cousin arranged for my mother to come visit her so she could meet my father. Then through correspondence and telephone for a while, they corresponded and spoke to each other and eventually they got together and got married. My mother moved to Allentown and lived for a while until they established themselves and bought a home on North Fifth Street. They lived with my grandparents -- my father's parents, who were from Russia. They were a dear couple, very sweet. My grandfather, as a matter of fact, Elias Malenovsky, was one of the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. He established a little synagogue down on 2nd Street - he and a man by the name of Mr. Senderowitz -- the two first Jewish settlers in Allentown. SC: So that's the Malenovsky family that is also related to Sheftel? SB: Sheftel was my aunt, who was my father's sister's husband. Eventually my father and Mr. Sheftel went into business together. Sheftel, I understand, had a truck. SC: We have a picture of it. GE: That was their first truck. SB: That was an inducement for my father to start a business along those lines. What happened was, with the business, was that my grandfather was known as a peddler. He had a horse and a wagon. In those days there were lots of peddlers going around the neighborhoods. He traveled from Allentown all the way up to Slatington picking up whatever he could buy at the time, whether it was clothes, fruit, watermelons, or junk or odds-n-ends, whatever he could put his hands on and then he would sell it for a couple more cents, in those days -- no big deal -- there was no General Motors at the time. Anyhow, my father went to school until he was in the 8th grade and then he went out peddling with his father. One day my grandmother (my father's mother) said to him, I just found this out, as a matter of fact, today, my brother was over here and gave me this information -- she said to him, "Why don't you go to factories and pick up the little scraps that they get rid of and you can sell it to other places -- like paper mills." There were a lot of places - I've written down here -- where they sold it to. They sold it to paper mills, to roofing companies (they used in the shingles), the paper companies used in the paper, the government used it in money -- my brother gave me this information to me today--I can't read my own writing--stationery companies and I have to get my glasses, can you read that at the bottom? SC: Wiping rags? SB: Oh yes, wiping rags -- that's how he started his business and it got to be a rather large business. When my father passed away, then Sheftel passed away -- within six weeks of each other. Sheftel's children took it over and now I think it's in the hands of the grandchildren. Right? GE: I think so. SC: Do you know any of the other names in your family -- your mother's family or your father's mother's family? Any of the other surnames? GE: In other words, we already know about Malenovsky-- SB: You mean like my father had a brother? SC: Your mother's mother's name? SB: My mother's name was Flax. That grandfather of mine was a Reverend. He was a mohel and he wrote and he was also a shochet. GE: Oh, he did with the slaughtering. SB: He did different things for the Temple. For example, for the graves at the cemeteries you had to take out certain papers and printing and everything - like for the -- oh what's it called? SC: Engraving? Or the stone work to put the names on. SB: Yes, he did that. Also on my father's side, my grandfather -- that other grandfather and my uncle, who was my father's brother, did that for the cemeteries and for the people who made the monuments. They wrote for the two families. GE: So the Flax family -- they were in Vermont. Do you know where they were prior to Vermont? SB: No, I don't know. GE: Around, let's say for instance, your grandparents lived in Vermont, how about their parents? Do you know if their parents did? SB: I never knew their parents and their parents weren't in Vermont. Their parents were from Russia. GE: Do you know if the family came from Russia? Poland? SB: I don't know exactly. I should have asked my brother. My brother could probably give you that information -- I'll give you his name and telephone number. GE: That would be good. SC: We could fill in then. GE: How about your father's family, let's say for instance the Malenovskys? SB: They also came from Russia. I think-- I'm almost certain--. GE: Both of them sound like they came fairly early -- more like the 1870's -- not 1900 or even earlier. SB: It might be a little early possibly. SC: Do you know where in Vermont they lived? SB: In Burlington. SC: They went right to Burlington? SB: No, I just thought of the place my cousin was -- that introduced my parents -- Glenn Falls, New York. They lived there for a while -- the Flax family. SC: Burlington is also an interesting city for people to go to. SB: The University of Vermont is there -- it's a good medical school, a fine medical school. SC: And, there was industry there, I believe, earlier. SB: Industry? I don't know--.maple syrup?!? GE: They started out at Glenn Falls, do you know why they went to Burlington? SB: Maybe he was offered a job there -- in the Shul. SC: Right, because he was a mohel? SB: He started the one shul there, too. GE: And how about the Malenovsky family -- where your grandfather was a peddler, do you know what brought them to Allentown? SB: I don't really know -- sorry I can't help you out there. My grandmother had a sister living here -- that motivated her -- by the name of Becker -- the Becker family -- that could have been part of it -- I don't know. They were in the meat business, the Becker boys. GE: Were they butchers or meat processors? SB: I don't know. My brother could help you more with that information. SC: And, also I could look some of this up on Ancestry.com -- you can look up names. SB: If you ask my brother, he could help you out with some of it. SC: So the Becker brothers would be at the turn of the century? SB: Probably. SC: We have to say what century, anymore! GE: Of the early 20th century. It sounds like the family was in Allentown by 1870's and so if that brought them there--. SC: Can we talk a little bit about your husband's family? SB: Sure, My husband was in the army and when he got out of the army, he had worked before for a company in New Jersey somewhere. He and his brother worked for a company. GE: What was his brother's name? SB: Rubin. GE: So it's Harry and Rubin. SB: I'll tell you, Harry was the whole business, Rubin liked to think he was, but don't put that down! SC: That's fine. GE: And I assume when you said they were in the army, it was that during WWII. SB: Right, we're not that old! GE: Just double checking! You're the same age as my parents. And, they grew up in New Jersey? SB: No, they grew up in New York. GE: New York City? SB: They were in New York City for a while. I don't know if they were in Brooklyn so put down New York City. GE: And then they moved to New Jersey? SB: Well, no he used to go by ferry to New Jersey. GE: Okay, he just worked in New Jersey. The two brothers together worked in New Jersey. SC: And they were Rubin and Harry Berman -- so we could look that up, too. SB: In between he went into the army for four years. They worked together for a while for a company in New Jersey. Then when he got out of the army, he moved to Catasauqua. He had a dying -- a knitting and dying - small place in Catasauqua. GE: Was that a place that he owned, was that a place that he worked at? SB: I don't know if he owned it. I don't know, I can't tell you that. SC: Again, we could look that up. SB: He probably owned it. Anyhow, after that, he was there for a couple years, he built this very large factory on 309 near Emmaus, outside of Emmaus - A knitting and dyeing factory -- both -- everything under one roof. SC: Do you know the address of that -- the factory -- what street it was on. SB: I don't know the name of it -- Emaus Avenue. GE: And the name is Fair-Tex? SB: The name was Fair-Tex Mills. Then they went on the stock exchange after a few years. What else do you want to know? SC: Do you know anything about Harry's family? Where they came from? What they did? SB: They came from Russia, too. GE: Were their parents from Russia? SB: Yes. GE: So they were first generation, Harry & ; Rubin - their parents were from Russia. SC: Do you know anything about the education of any of the people we talked about? SB: My mother was a teacher. She taught in a school where they taught first to sixth grade. She used to come by horse and buggy, then she took a trolley -- she went about ten different ways to get to school. SC: Do you know where the school was? SB: Outside of Burlington somewhere. SC: So before she was married she taught. GE: I don't have your parent's names. SB: My mother's name? GE: Yes. SB: Lillian Rachel Flax Malenovsky. GE: So she went to college? SB: She didn't go to college. In those days she didn't go to college. GE: But she graduated high school? SB: Yes and got her teaching - whatever it was. GE: Certificate probably. SC: For normal school perhaps. GE: And what was your father's name? SB: Jacob Harry Malenovsky. He went to eighth grade, period. SC: So many people did. SB: But he was very bright. GE: Absolutely! SC: So after you and Harry were married, did you become involved in the business at all? SB: I was involved in the sense that we socialized with his customers and a lot of them didn't want Harry to come without me. We always traveled together, we went to Europe -- all over together. We went to Europe a couple of times a year. A lot of his business was in Europe. GE: When you say his business was in Europe do you mean customers? SB: No, he bought machines over there, equipment, and we became close friends with the people we did business with. As a matter of fact, we were the only customers who were invited to their homes. We had wonderful times with these people. Unfortunately all of them are dead now -- every one of them, but they were wonderful people. SC: Did you entertain them also? SB: Yes, I did. Some of them came here to my house and they liked it. I had a lovely house. SC: 3363 Trexler Boulevard -- at the corner of 34th and Trexler. A beautiful house at one time. As a matter of fact, it was on television. GE: When did you and Harry marry? SB: 1962. GE: And he passed away--.. SB: We were married for 45 years. SC: Is that a wedding picture in the cabinet? SB: No, that's my son. SC: Oh, that's your son -- oh that's how young you look! SB: I have pictures of us, but not wedding pictures -- I will show you sometime. SC: Can you explain what you know of the business process? SB: He had the first computerized textile machine in the country. The machines were computerized and he could design on the machine itself. He had one of the largest textile businesses in the country, until knitting started to decline. Then fortunately he got out in time and we enjoyed the rest of our lives together as much as we could. SC: What year did he get out of it? SB: He was probably close to 65. He was born in 1918. GE: So that would be early '82-'83. SC: So he was in a good, long time. SB: Yes, most of his life. SC: As far as the business, when you said he had the first computerized designing, was he designing clothing at that time? SB: He had women that designed for him -- designers. SC: So he wasn't a contractor necessarily in the end to New York manufacturers, he was a producer, he was a manufacturer. SB: Of fabric - basically. And he had other factories where he manufactured garments. He bought a place in western Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh where they made ladies shirts. He bought his friend's factory -- it used to be Mort Levy's factory -- called Strong Wear Pants -- in Easton. GE: Was the fabrics the large part of the business? SB: Yes. That was the business! GE: So the main thing was the fabrics--.. SB: Manufacturing knitted goods which he made for swimming suit factories, ladies and men's underwear factories, clothing factories -- where they used knit goods, not woven. GE: Tell me the difference? SB: See, this is a knit -- that's woven SC: And this is cotton knit. SB: That's a different kind of knit than he made, I forgot what you call it. SC: Double knit? SB: No double knits, he had double knits. There is a name for it -- it's not like this kind of knit. GE: His customers -- were often the local factories in town - who were making the clothes. SB: Not necessarily. GE: His customers were all over the world. He was one of the large knit fabric producers. SB: Exactly, he had factories all over. SC: But he did own factories that produced finished goods. SB: He had a couple smaller factories that produced. But that wasn't his main business - It was knitting and dying. He knitted the fabric and then dyed it to the color that he wanted. He had his own dying right there. SC: And did his designers then design fabric that had different patterns to it? SB: Right. SC: He was an entrepreneur. SB: Yes he was. There were things used for bathing suits that would have been different from underwear or dresses or for children's things. SC: Do you have any stories about the people you met all over the world who were his customers? SB: From whom he bought his machines -- and customers. We used to go out to California a couple times a year and meet with his people out there -- he had people out there -- he had salesmen out there, and also customers out there. We had good times. SC: Does anything stand out in your mind--any experience that you had when you were traveling? SB: We had wonderful conventions out in California, in Germany, in Italy -- machine shows -- in England. All over -- yes, these things all stand out -- we had wonderful times out there with the people from whom we bought the machines and with people who became our friends -- very close friends. GE: How about Harry's education? SB: He graduated from high school and then he went two years to night school -- night college. GE: Was that after the war on the G.I. Bill or was that before the war? SB: Well, he graduated high school before the war. GE: Right, but how about college? SB: It could have been after. He went to a school for design -- I forget what you call it. GE: Like -- I know in Philadelphia -- there is the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science. SC: What was your husband's business philosophy? Did he have certain ideas that he talked about? SB: He was fair, very honest in his business. GE: When you say he was fair and honest, are you saying with his suppliers, customers, employees? SB: With everyone. One time he made a deal with someone -- I don't know what happened, but it would have meant that if he went through with it, he would have lost a lot of money. And he did -- because he gave his word. I can't give you the exact details about the deal, but he did go ahead and made good on what he said. He was very honest and fair with business. SC: Did you have any conversations about his business? SB: No, I didn't, I didn't mix into his business very much. I was there when he needed me, and I was helpful. We had some transactions in Paris, and my husband didn't speak French. I took French in school, and we weren't allowed to speak English. That was years ago when I was in college. I hadn't spoken French in years and years, but it came back to me little by little when we went to France. I did help him as much as I could along those lines because he didn't know a word of French. And it did work out fine, we did culminate the deal and that was it. GE: I don't think we had a chance to talk much about your experience growing up in Allentown. Tell us a little bit about you and your family - when you were a young girl, what the Jewish community was like, what the larger Allentown community was like. SB: Well, I'll tell you, I had a very good childhood. I had two wonderful parents. I had two wonderful sisters and an adorable brother. I had a very nice life as a child. In those days you didn't have to be afraid to go out at night. GE: Excuse me, you were the oldest? SB: I'm the oldest. And, it was a nice life, you didn't have to be afraid. It was a clean life. We always had a good time. As children, my parents would take us every summer to Burlington. We rented a cottage on Lake Champlain. My mother's family was there, so we had great times. Her family would always come to be with us at the bay, which is right outside of Burlington, Malletts Bay, right on the lake. GE: How long did you stay there? Was it for a week, a month? SB: No, that was for the summer. My father would take us up. In those days going to Burlington was like going to Europe today. It took us two to three days to get there. We'd stay in those little cabins -- he would take us and come back six weeks later and then another trip to take us home. So we had a wonderful time, it was right on the lake. We made friends. There were a lot of Canadian people coming down from Montreal. We made lots of friends and had a very wonderful childhood. SC: Can you spell the town that you stayed at outside of Burlington? SB: Malletts Bay SC: Can you spell that? SB: M-A-L-L-E-T-T-S B-A-Y. GE: No, I didn't spell that right. SB: It was about from here to New York to go to Montreal. So we'd go up there during the summer and spend a day in Montreal, usually, and took little trips around Burlington. We had fun, we had lots of fun. GE: And your father's business managed to stay okay during the Depression? SB: They managed -- they managed to be fine -- they wound up good. We never realized how good they were -- we were never told as children their situation. We were just happy for them. I had good parents. It wasn't like today, we didn't have the problems that we have today -- none of the problems with any of our children. It was a good life, a simple life, my parents never spoiled us, and I never realized the position they were in until after my father passed away. We enjoyed what we had. My father was in contact with all of the factories. As children, he'd bring us shoes, he'd bring us different things from different factories. It was a big deal. We'd get new shoes for Passover, new shoes for Rosh Hashanah and new shoes for other times, and we were thrilled. When I gave up my shoes, they looked new because we had an appreciation in those days. Today the children have everything and don't appreciate anything. To this day, I have lots of shoes -- maybe three hundred pairs. My husband used to call me an elf! But, every pair of shoes is like the day I got them almost, except the heels from driving. It was a different way of life, it really was. SC: When you were a child did you play mostly with kids in the neighborhood, or did you have more connections to the Jewish community? SB: I used to walk, when we lived on 5th Street - I used to go to Hebrew School. I used to walk myself coming home at night -- I don't know if you know Allentown -- from Fifth Street, the north end -- we lived below Washington on Fifth. I walked from there all the way to Sixth and Chew -- this would be where the Jewish Community Center was -- myself to go to Hebrew School at night. In the winter, it was dark -- I never had any qualms about walking. Sometimes, my mother, if she could, would meet me partway. If she couldn't, sometimes my Hebrew teacher, I can't remember her name, a lovely lady, she'd walk me partway. Anyway, I never gave it a thought -- who'd walk today? What little child would walk today? GE: I don't know if they can't or if we don't let them. But, whatever it is. SB: It's not safe. GE: You're absolutely right. You mentioned that your family at that time belonged to Sons of Israel and then when you moved you belonged to Temple Beth El. Why did you change? SB: I guess for convenience. GE: That's what I was wondering. And at that time tell me a little bit about the Jewish community -- the size of the community, the cohesiveness -- what it was like, where did everyone live? When you were a young girl, were there a lot of Jewish families? SB: Yes, there were. GE: And then when you moved to 16th Street? SB: I'll tell you, when we moved up to Beth El, we went to that little Temple on Walnut Street. Remember I told you. GE: Right, yes. SB: And of course there weren't that many people. And the whole Temple was, I don't think it was bigger than this room here. That was as a Temple really, so if all the people came, maybe they filled it. But that wasn't that many people. Then of course as we kept going to Beth El on 17th and Hamilton, it kept growing and growing. And that's why we thought- my nephew is the one by the way- is the one who was instrumental in building the new Temple. Beautiful isn't it? GE: Yes, yes. SB: Have you been in it? SC: I've seen pictures and we've been by it. SB: But you weren't in it? SC: No, I wasn't in it. GE: I'll take you over to see it. SB: You have to go over. SC: Yes, yes. SB: So, then it grew of course. GE: Right. SB: And we did, we went to Temple. In the beginning when we were younger of course we went with my parents. And then, of course I've been going all my life to Beth El. I stayed with Beth El. And now I don't go that much. I've lost some enthusiasm to go, but I go for the holidays, you know. GE: Right. SB: And I'll always go, I went to Temple. And we went to the Center as young people, I went more when the Jewish Community Center was on 6th and Chew. I went there more. I was younger then, and I was more active in different things. But I'm not that active in the center, I'm a life member of the Temple of Hadassah of Beth El. But now I don't go that much. SC: Was the building of Beth El at 6th and Chew, that isn't where Union Baptist Church is now? SB: Union Baptist Church? SC: Yeah, it would be the Community Center if you are standing at 6th and Chew at the Community Center. SB: 6th and Chew? Are you talking about the old Community Center? You mean the Church across the street? SC: Yeah. SB: Yeah it was there. SC: That was it. SB: Yeah it was there. GE: No, that was the old Center? In other words, the JCC is not the same building. It was already there. SC: Oh that church, that was already there. SB: Yeah I think so, I don't know. SC: We keep trying to figure out where the synagogue was at 6th and Chew. SB: Oh no the synagogue wasn't. SC: Just the JCC was there. SB: Yeah. SC: Oh. SB: The synagogue was at 6th and Tilghman. SC: Tilghman, okay. SB: Down, going north. SC: Okay, yes, going north. SB: Quite a few blocks. SC: Oh okay. SB: Yeah. GE: I'll drive down with you. I'm curious myself. SC: Yeah we have to figure that out. GE: Because when I came to town already it was at 17th and Hamilton and the JCC was at 22nd and Tilghman. SB: Right. Now they are trying to sell the Jewish Community Center. SC: Again, yeah. SB: That's a shame, I'm sad to see that go. SC: Yeah. SB: What's going to be there? Do you know? GE: Well if they are able to sell it, the idea is that they are going to move further west. SB: They are going to move, really? GE: Yeah, because it's already a 60 year old building so you know it really starts showing its age. SB: Yeah. The thing is they always do everything, when they are doing the Temple or they are doing something else. And people don't have the money for everything. You know what I mean? GE: Right, right. SB: It's not good timing. GE: Right. Tell us about your education. Where did you go to school? SC: That's what I was going to ask. SB: My education- first I went to the school at 5th and Washington St.. It was called Garfield. At that time they told me I had the highest IQ of anyone in the school they had had. GE: Wow. SB: So that was nice to hear as a youngster. Then we moved, and I went up to Raub Jr. High School. And then from there I went to Allentown High School. GE: And I'm assuming you were, were you a very good student? SB: National Honor, yeah. SC: Right. SB: From there I went to Cedar Crest College on a full scholarship, and I was given something that nobody ever heard of. I was given unlimited cuts. So every Monday I wasn't in school. I was engaged at the time, so after I don't know how long, they took it away from me. I left school, listen to this, in my senior year, to go with my husband at the time. He was going overseas so I went to work in Maryland at the- whats the name of the place- GE: But you went overseas? SB: No, I didn't go overseas. I went with him first to the improving ground. And I worked as a secretary to a colonel there. I left school in my senior year. I left college, Dean's honor list, and National Honor. I had one semester to finish. I broke my parents' heart, I realized, but I wanted to badly be with my husband. And I never went back to school, because first of all, when I could have after that, I became pregnant with children and this and that. Three children. And when I could have, they had discontinued my course, for one thing. And, already I didn't have the patience really. You lose it, you get out of the swing of it and it's difficult to get back. GE: Sure. What were you studying? SB: I majored in psychology. I wanted to be a doctor, actually. And I also took a business course. And then after my husband was overseas for four years, I was secretary to a colonel here at - what's the name of the place- Consolidated Vultee, where they made the airplanes. SC: Ah, yes. SB: I was secretary to a colonel, I was secretary to a group called Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh-- three consultants. GE: Is this now back in Allentown? SB: Yes, Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh, until they wanted to date me, and I was already engaged and married. I left them. Then I was secretary at the Bethlehem Jewish Community Center in charge of the office. And then at that time, I think my husband came home. SC: So can you talk a little bit about, were you involved in the community, the larger community, or the Jewish community? SB: I was active, yes I was active as a young woman, I was active in Hadassah. I was on the board. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was the secretary for a number of years. Well, I wasn't active at the- I was a life member at the Jewish Community Center. But I wasn't active per se. And I was active with my own things, you know, my own friends and family. SC: Right, you own life. How about Harry? Was he very active in either these organizations or professional organizations? SB: Yes, he was. GE: What was he involved in? SB: He was part of the Jewish Federation, he was part of the different organizations- I can't think of a name. GE: Like Rotary or any of those? SB: No, I don't think Rotary. GE: Like the Chamber of Commerce? SB: Yes, the Chamber of Commerce. I don't know, I'm trying to think of what else he was active in. SC: Was he active in politics? Any of the political elements of the Lehigh Valley? SB: No, not politics. GE: How about the association? Any kind of association, like fabric. You know, a manufacturers association? SB: Yeah, I think he was, but I couldn't tell you the names of organizations. That I can't. GE: Okay. And also it sounds like you had a very nice - SB: Social life. We had a very nice social life. GE: Yes. SB: That we did, with friends and family. GE: Right, right. SC: So do you have any other questions? GE: You know what, I'm just looking. Um, anything, any good memories that you have about his employees, at all? Any of the employees, local employees? First of all, how many? Do you know what was the size, how many workers there were? SB: He had a big factory. See this is why I said, I didn't think I could give you too much information. GE: That's okay. SB: No, let me think. I would safely say that between the three different businesses that he owned, I would say that he hired maybe a couple thousand. SC: Wow, that's big. SB: Yeah, maybe more, but I don't want to say more. GE: Now when you say the three businesses, it's the fabric- SB: Yeah and then the two other factories. GE: And then the two factories. SB: Yeah so safely I would say maybe a couple thousand. GE: That's big. SC: So how has Allentown changed in your life and since the end of manufacturing, do you think? SB: It's a big change in my life. Well, you mean the end of his business when he got out of business? SC: Well, in your whole life, let's start with that. How has Allentown changed since you were young? SB: How about what? SC: Allentown has changed since you were young. SB: Oh yes, of course. There's so much more going on in Allentown now. So much more building. So many more businesses and organizations and growth in the city of Allentown. Even in the population, people have come here from New Jersey and New York. They come here to live, because it's better living for them. They come from New York and New Jersey, there is great growth here in Allentown. SC: Is it a different climate than when you were a child? SB: Yes it is. It's a different climate like it is all over the world, unfortunately. And, more things happening here that shouldn't be happening, but, there is good growth and there is also evil growth, which is throughout the world now unfortunately. How about a piece of chocolate, in between? SC: *laughs* GE: *laughs* SC: And how about with the needle trades and textiles leaving Allentown, going down south first, and then going overseas? Do you think that has had an effect on people? SB: Definitely, yeah, sure, a lot of people lost their jobs, or had to move out of town because of it. Or, in general their life changed, certainly. SC: So I have two really sort of filmy questions, just feeling questions, first of all what do you value in life most? SB: What do I what? SC: Value in life most. SB: I value my family. That's number one in my life. My friends, and I am blessed to have a wonderful family. Both my own personal family and my nieces, nephews, their families, and my own families, and also my wonderful friends, as well as terrific doctors who have kept me living, and to whom I really owe my life. And nurses, and I'm blessed to have them as my personal friends. I am. GE: That's nice. SC: And what have you- has made you feel the most creative? SB: Pardon? SC: The most creative in your life. SB: The most creative in my life. Well, my children are creative, in their own way, each one. I appreciate that in them, in each one. My oldest is in a videotaping business. *the electricity goes out* SB: What's that? GE: I don't- maybe is that camera still going? SB: Huh? GE: You know what, it's raining and it sounds like we're getting a little bit of a storm. SB: That's probably what it is. GE: Yeah. SB: What was I saying? GE/SC: Your children being creative. SB: Yeah, my oldest son is in the videotaping, has a nice videotaping. He's been on the radio since he was ten years old. And he's followed through with a videotaping business. GE: Right. SB: He doesn't do it himself so much anymore, but he did. GE: Right, what kind of videos does he- SB: Well, for instance if you have a wedding, a bar mitzvah, a party, he'll do that. GE: Right, okay yes, yes. SC: So we could have had him here today doing the videotaping. SB: Yes. SC: He could have done the videotaping. SB: And my second son is a um- no that word always escapes me- he's a-uh he advises. GE: A consultant? SB: Consultant. GE: Right, okay. SB: That word, I don't know why, I have a mental block. He's a consultant for medical companies, the government, the state, he does that. My youngest son works for a jet propulsion lab. They are the ones affiliated with setting up the rockets. And they are also affiliated with the University of- I think it is Southern California or California- and he is a lawyer. He is in their legal department. GE: So wonderful. SB: So they're each creative in their own way. My husband was very creative. GE: Right. And in SB: And- GE: What ways have you been creative? What makes you feel most creative? SB: What makes me creative? Having children- *electricity goes out* SB: Oh my gosh, look at that. Having children. Oh my gosh. GE: So being a mom. SC: Okay, it just went off for a second. SB: And I like to write. SC: Write? SB: I do, I write. And uh, GE: Tell us what kind of writing do you do? SB: Well just, uh, personal. GE: Like a journal? SB: No. GE: Or letters? SB: Letters, and for occasions, and things like that. GE: Oh, isn't that lovely. SB: I just wrote a letter for Lisa. GE: Oh. SB: For her, you know she had a granddaughter. GE: Oh. SB: For the naming. GE: Isn't that beautiful. SB: Named after Perry, my sister. GE: You know what, I did hear that, that her oldest son had that, is that correct? SB: Yeah. GE: Isn't that nice. SB: Yeah they had a baby, but whatever. SC: And I say creative, but in a sense, what has made you feel most satisfied in your life other than your children? SB: Well, my marriage was good, up to a point. And, oh what can I tell you. I'm just satisfied with my life. I have a positive attitude and I'm just happy to be here. And I feel there's so much good you can get out of life if you look for it, even though there are adversities in everybody's life, for sure. And, I'm happy with what's going on. I have to overcome certain adversities, but I'm happy. GE: Beautiful. SC: Thank you so much. SB: Thank you for being with me. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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00:56:18
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Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013
Description
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Shirley Berman talks about growing up in Allentown. Her father’s ancestors (Malenovsky family) were among the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. Elias Malenovsky was a founder of the first synagogue in Allentown down on 2nd St. Later, Shirley married Harry Berman. Harry owned Fair-Tex Mills, one of the largest knitting mills in the U.S. and the first to use computerized textile machines. Shirley proudly shared that she accompanied her husband regularly on business trips throughout Europe and always enjoyed entertaining customers and vendors.
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LVTNT-32
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2013-05-24
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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https://textile.digitalarchives.muhlenberg.edu/files/original/1574ddccac666260951da2b8b4996ab5.png
5ced9df43be0d70b1794914638aed987
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Leonard Bloch
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-31.xml
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5.4 July 25, 2011 Leonard and Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011 LVTNT-31 1:59:56 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Leonard Bloch Beverley Bloch Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BlochLeonard_Beverley_20110725 1.0:|25(4)|48(9)|73(7)|92(3)|109(7)|128(4)|159(5)|184(8)|199(16)|218(5)|247(11)|264(11)|281(3)|300(7)|313(13)|330(14)|357(3)|370(12)|385(14)|402(2)|429(10)|448(4)|475(11)|494(13)|511(6)|536(6)|555(10)|574(8)|599(6)|616(9)|631(15)|650(6)|665(13)|682(7)|711(17)|736(17)|751(15)|768(17)|783(11)|806(10)|827(8)|844(3)|865(6)|886(8)|905(14)|922(12)|941(13)|962(5)|981(4)|996(10)|1029(11)|1056(4)|1085(6)|1106(5)|1127(8)|1156(3)|1185(3)|1204(15)|1219(9)|1240(11)|1261(3)|1276(16)|1303(10)|1328(10)|1353(13)|1382(8)|1397(15)|1414(3)|1451(8)|1486(6)|1501(3)|1520(17)|1539(10)|1570(7)|1599(5)|1614(3)|1647(8)|1666(9)|1685(5)|1702(4)|1739(16)|1758(11)|1779(7)|1808(13)|1835(13)|1856(6)|1877(8)|1902(3)|1925(8)|1948(11)|1969(13)|2000(5)|2025(12)|2054(2)|2083(5)|2114(5)|2139(2)|2158(5)|2179(6)|2198(5)|2219(14)|2242(5)|2265(15)|2286(13)|2311(10)|2338(4)|2361(13)|2382(13)|2405(4)|2428(12)|2451(14)|2476(14)|2499(5)|2522(13)|2543(14)|2570(13)|2597(12)|2620(12)|2643(5)|2666(17) 0 https://youtu.be/42fll13b1xU YouTube video 10 Early Family History SC: Today is July 25, 2011, an interview- attending is Gail Eisenberg and Susan Clemens-Bruder. Hi. First of all, I would like to put you into context. And so if you could give your full name and your birth date?
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 ; LB: Leonard Bloch, January 29, 1935.
 ; 
 ; SC: Where were you born, and where did you live in your early life?
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 ; LB: I was born in Wilmington, DE. Lived there at the most two years, I’m not sure the exact [time], and then my parents moved back to Allentown and I’ve lived here ever since. 0 269 Father's Business GE: What did your father do for a living?
 ; 
 ; LB: My father worked for Sears Roebuck. He was the manager of the furniture department with Sears Roebuck. Sears was located on 7th Street at that time between Linden and Turner, and then they decided to build a new store which was located on 7th Street between Tilghman and Allen. During that period of time, they transferred my father to their Wilmington, DE store for about a two or three year period, and after that, he came back to Allentown, and he started in the garment business in approximately 1944-1945. 0 381 Leonard's Start in the Business SC: So — and we’ll come back to all that — but tell me a little bit more about you, as far as what was your educational background and how did you become involved in a business, and where did you work, actually, all your life? Did you have little jobs when you were young and then move into the garment industry?
 ; 
 ; LB: How young?
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 ; SC: As young as you can be. Paperboy?
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 ; LB: No, I was never a paperboy. During the war, I used to, on the weekend, go around with my wagon and collect. At that time there was always a drive for some scrap metal, old rubber tires, and drippings from fats was used for munitions, and I would collect that and then sell it. Gas stations had places where you could buy that. I guess I was meant for the garment industry because we lived at 630 N. 23rd Street, had a nice front porch, and I invited all my friends on the porch, and I had little looms, and they made potholders. 0 612 Ideas of Early Businesses LB: So they were going to go into some business. And their first thought was a luncheonette. Well first, actually their first thought they were thinking of the potato chip business, manufacturing potato chips.
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 ; GE: Her, her- Interesting, her husband's family is Charles Chips.
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 ; LB: Oh, really.
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 ; GE: Yeah, her ex-husband’s.
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 ; SC: So they were thinking about that. And that was a perfect time to do it if you could get the oil.
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 ; LB: They looked into the potato chip business, and they were all set to do that, and then they discovered that you don't get a pound of potato chips from a pound of potatoes when the water comes out it's a big difference, so it wasn't quite the gold mine that it appeared to be at first. So they rented one of these small apartments, and they were going to put a luncheonette there. 0 866 Business Operations SC: Can you talk a little bit now about the business? What were the operations, what- how- how did you set it up, or your father set it up and you continue it?
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, as I said, my dad was not really a garment man, so he made polo shirts, and he really wasn't interested in making other types of garments. The polo shirt market was not one that I saw a future in even in the early 1950s. At that time, rather than things being manufactured in other countries, there was a migration to the South. There was a lot of clothing being made in the South. So I started looking at other types of clothing to make, and my dad always told me that if you go to work every day and you’re there in the morning, whatever you do, if you make a mistake or whatever you do, we’ll work it out, don't worry about it. Just be on time and we won't worry about mistakes, and he was always true to that. I did some crazy things. Most of them worked out. 0 1560 Competition in the Area GE: But while you were doing this, were there many other bouffant manufacturers in the area, or were you primarily the only one?
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 ; LB: There were a few others around, but... they had a lot of trouble.
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 ; GE: They didn't have some of these innovative ideas.
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 ; LB: If you can just imagine a seamstress getting starch in her eyes is- is a significant thing. The goggles that I got prevented a lot of it, but I also had an arrangement with a local physician where- when they got impacted, I would have them taken up to the doctor's office, they would clean out their eyes, and it had just gone in so it would just be in the corners. It was fine. 0 1713 More About the Business SC: So I have a couple of questions. First of all, in the ‘60s, what happened with the bouffant business and was polo generic polo shirts, or was it for Polo?
 ; 
 ; LB: T-shirt — no, it was not for Polo. 
 ; 
 ; SC: So the idea of generic polo, because Polo then had the name.
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 ; LB: Today, polo shirts are called t-shirts, and it’s one of the biggest items, but it’s very difficult to find a store that carries American made t-shirts. They are all made off-shore. And that was something that was actually- you could forecast was going to happen. Following WWII, the world was flat, and they needed industry, and there is no more exportable industry, at least as I read the tea leaves, then the garment industry. 0 2181 Unions SC: When the business started, did your father embrace the union right away, and was this something that you were committed to, to having the union in your operations?
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 ; LB: My dad did embrace the union very early on, and I was committed to it, absolutely. 0 2245 Business Anecdotes SC: So do you have any anecdotes about or stories that you remember about your years in the business? Anything that just strikes you — funny, sad, interesting?
 ; 
 ; LB: I made mention a few moments ago about sliding the cartons down the outdoor fire escape. Well, the first time that I did that, it was for a local company called Movie Star. Actually, it was a New York company, but they had a plant in Allentown, a shipping point in Allentown. And before I had the chute made, we actually just went out the fire escape door and dropped the boxes down one at a time. Well, the first time I did this, the truck driver thought we were crazy. He came running upstairs to use the telephone and called his boss, a man named Charlie Halperin [?]. And Charlie heard this, “He’s throwing your bouffants out the window!” 0 2425 Business Skills and Practices SC: What skills did you have? How did you divide the skills, for instance, there is the floor person, floor lady, and were all the workers women?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, I had — well, I had a cutting department, and the cutters were, the cutter was always a man. The shipper, the shipping clerk. In those days, you wouldn’t think of a female shipping clerk. So- and I had a mechanic, had a very good mechanic was one of the keys to being successful with some of these different things because a mechanic not only fixed machines and keep them running and sewing machines can constantly break, and if you skip a stitch, it’s a second, it has to be repaired ; but he could make attachments. 0 3055 Real Estate Owner LB: No. No. First I just bought, we just bought a couple of buildings, and then I actually built a few buildings. The largest one was in Allentown, 48 apartments.
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, where? Which? I mean, is it just- is it a complex?
 ; 
 ; LB: Yeah. Garden Apartments, South Tioga Street.
 ; 
 ; GE: Okay. I don’t know…is that South Allentown?
 ; 
 ; SC: That’s South Allentown.
 ; 
 ; LB: And I had some in Emmaus. You might know — we owned at one point the Powder Mill Apartments back on Furnace Street. 0 3333 Bloch Children Involvement? GE: Any of your children- Did any of your children get involved either in the real estate part or in the garment, in the textile?
 ; 
 ; LB: No, not really. Our oldest son, Craig, is a pediatrician. Our daughter sold advertising space for a Washington newspaper, and now she is a special education teacher for reading. 0 3465 Flex-time for the Employees SC: This is tape number 3, July 25th, 2011, an interview with Leonard Bloch. And can we talk about flex time? When you started flex time before probably anybody did and also how you allowed women to work with their families in mind in other ways?
 ; 
 ; LB: I was able to handle flexible hours. If an employee had an elderly parent or children or whatever the need might be, they did not have to work 7 1/2 continuous hours. That was our...overtime was first over 7 1/2 and then over 7. But they could work, have an extra hour or two for lunch or just work mornings or just work afternoons or a combination of mornings and evenings or just evenings, and it worked out well for them, and it didn’t hurt me. I could- I had their loyalty. If I needed a favor in return, it was no problem. 0 3608 Lehigh Valley Textile Industry GE: No, and then we will talk about a little bit when you were saying in terms of family, as well as your sense . . . how about your sense of the Allentown textile industry, or I shouldn’t say the Allentown, I should say the Lehigh Valley — because there were a lot of contractors, correct?
 ; 
 ; LB: There were. There were several hundred in the Lehigh Valley at one time.
 ; 
 ; GE: Right. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Was there much collaboration among the contractors? Was it very competitive among the contractors? How did all- some of those things…?
 ; 
 ; LB: It was a competitive market. It was competitive for help, seamstresses. It was competitive for getting the work, getting the contracts for- Speaking of contracts, it’s not in the usual context of a contract. 0 3775 Never Joined the Atlantic Apparel Association GE: What about, were you associated with the contractors association? Because we spoke with, we did meet with Arnold Delin.
 ; 
 ; LB: Yes- No, I never joined. 
 ; 
 ; GE: Okay, just wondering. Okay, why? You didn’t feel it was in your interest, or…?
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, obviously, I guess I didn’t feel it was in my interest, which maybe I was right or maybe I was wrong. 0 3876 New York Garment Industry SC: I hope this question isn’t too much of a tangent, but when you go to New York, and you see racks of clothing being wheeled down the street in the garment industry, the garment center of New York City, well how does that fit into the whole picture? And I’m showing my ignorance of not knowing. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, in New York there are also a lot of contractors, and many times there’s the garment district, so if the contracting shop is close to the manufacturer or jobber that they got the work from, they’ll just load it on racks and push them down the street.
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, so it’s just that.
 ; 
 ; LB: Yeah, so it’s just the convenience. 0 3931 Community Involvement/Memories of the Community SC: Could we talk a little bit about your work in the community and in, you know, just in the general community, wherever you have been involved? 
 ; 
 ; GE: Actually, before we get into that, what are your memories of the community? In other words, when you were a child, you can give us a little bit of insight, what was the Allentown community like, and what was the Allentown Jewish community like? Both institutionally, what you know, what institutions were here, where were they, how active were they, what was the size of the community, where did it live, you know things of that nature? 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, I’ve always lived here, and I guess summing up, you could say I always loved my community. And, after Beverley and I were married, we both loved the community. And I was active in the community, as you know. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was President of the School Board for a couple years. I was on the Board of Temple Beth El. I was president of Temple Beth El from 1982-1987. I was president of the Endowment Foundation for about 10-11 years. It started in 1987-1988, whenever my term as president ended. And I was a Trustee at St. Luke’s Hospital for 10 years, from 1982-1991. 0 4457 Memories of the Jewish Community GE: And tell us about your memories of the Jewish community when you were, because you grew up here your whole life, as a child and teen versus a young adult, you know, versus a father in, you know, your 30s and 40s and now as a senior? You know, what have you seen? How has it changed? You know a little bit of that. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well in terms of demographics, the Jewish community has moved in a Western direction like for instance, Temple Beth El used to be at 17th and Hamilton-
 ; 
 ; GE: And I guess when you were younger, it was even 6th or something?
 ; 
 ; LB: I was BarMitzvahed at 12th and Walnut.
 ; 
 ; GE: 12th and Walnut, is that where it started? 12th and Walnut?
 ; 
 ; LB: Yes, that’s where it started. Well, we were married at 19, so as a young person ; and we were dating since we were 16…15? Yeah, 15. 0 4763 Needle Trades in Allentown SC: Do you remember any of the names of in- the needle trades right in Allentown? Maybe that would be something to write down sometime. It would be really-
 ; 
 ; LB: You mean other-
 ; 
 ; SC: Other businesses, yeah. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Schneider Manufacturing. That’s Irwin Schneider. Allentown Manufacturing. That’s George Hirsch. 
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 ; GE: We have Leonard- Len Manufacturing? Is that what it was called?
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 ; LB: Leonard. Leonard Manufacturing. 0 4866 Urban Renewal Processes in Allentown SC: I have another tangential question that’s a little self-interested. Do you remember anything about the years when the Urban Renewal Processes were going around- on in Allentown, especially the Little Lehigh Renewal Project that was the most contentious in Allentown? Were you involved with the city or any- any portion of that at that time?
 ; 
 ; LB: No. I remember when they wanted to change Hamilton Street into the Hamilton Mall, and I felt, along with the merchants, that that was a poor direction to go in. The merchants I clearly remember were solidly against changing Hamilton Street to one way and making it narrow. And I think the time has proven that they were right. 0 4968 Giving to the Family GE: But you know, we may want to ask in here in terms of just a little bit, I thought it was actually wonderful what Beverley was saying in terms of what you were able to offer your family education-wise and your wife education-wise. And I think that gets into here.
 ; 
 ; SC: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; GE: And so do you want to just share that with us because it wasn’t on the last tape. 
 ; 
 ; LB: Well, Beverley certainly didn’t come to work in the factory every day. We were always involved in everything together. We’ve been partners in everything. The factory and the building-
 ; 
 ; GE: Did you say she did come to work?
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 ; LB: No, she didn’t.
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 ; GE: She did not, okay. 
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 ; LB: But, we did things together. 0 5141 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative in Life? SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or creative or given you a sense of completion in life the most?
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 ; LB: I guess I’ve always valued my extracurricular, if you will, community activities the most. When I started in the garment industry, I made a promise to myself that I was not going just to be involved in business and get lost. And I suppose the experience that I value that I enjoyed the most has been the presidency of Temple Beth El. 0 5218 Beverley Bloch's Family History BB: I’m Beverley Bloch. Beverley Berg Bloch. And my birthdate is August 13th, 1935.
 ; 
 ; SC: And would you then, let's go back in your family a little bit, and then we’ll put you into context with your family. Where- What do you know about your parents? Give me their names, and also where they and perhaps their parents came from as far back as you know. 
 ; 
 ; BB: My father was, may he rest in peace, Joseph Berg. The name actually was Bergada, and he was from Pricin, Hungary, a small community in Hungary. And my mother was, may she rest in peace, Mildred Kleinberg. She was born in this country in a very small coal town called Oliphant, Pennsylvania. 0 5536 Beverley's Education BB: In the coal region. By the time I was 14, and I was the only Jewish kid in my class, I realized that I wanted to meet other Jewish kids. I realized that I would never get a good education. The education in Oliphant, Pennsylvania, the boys went into the mines, the girls went into then sewing plants. There were little sewing plants also in Oliphant. So I said to my parents that I would like very much to get a better education so there was a bus, buses that would start higher up in the coal regions — Carbondale, Jessup — and they would do what they call go “down the line” into Scranton. So when I was fourteen, I went, I registered to a Scranton school, Scranton Central High School, and I would take the bus every morning, approximately probably around 7:00. 0 5658 Meeting Leonard BB: And I got on the bus, and I had a blind date with someone named Leonard Bloch. 
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 ; GE: Oh, my goodness.
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 ; BB: We met at the Jewish Community Center at 6th and Chew Street, and the rest is history. 
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 ; SC: Wow.
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 ; BB: We kept dating. 
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 ; SC: Long distance dating for a while?
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 ; BB: Yeah, our wedding songbook said, “Martz Bus Made Money on Bev & ; Her Honey.” And it was true. Martz Bus would carry me to Bethlehem, not to Allentown, and Lenny would meet me in Bethlehem, and we just continued dating. 0 5732 Beverley's Parents' Store SC: To go back to your parents when they started their store, and that was 1931?
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 ; BB: Probably around then.
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 ; SC: They started the store, that was a really brave time to start a business in 1931. I mean that was going down to rock bottom by ‘32 to use a cliché. 
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 ; GE: However, people still had to eat.
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 ; SC: People had to eat so it was a good, it was a good decision, but also a lot of people had to sign a book rather than give money.
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 ; BB: Everything my father sold at the store was on the books. 0 5793 Anti-Semitism in School? GE: So given that you were- It was such a small number of Jewish children, and you were saying it was an Orthodox community in a much, in the school, whatever — was it difficult? Were you tormented or in any way?
 ; 
 ; BB: There was a certain amount of anti-Semitism. Basically speaking, no, I was not tormented. I can’t speak for what the boys in the area may have felt. From a girl's point of view, I had many non-Jewish friends, mostly non-Jewish friends. If they would become angry at me, the first remark out of their mouth might be “You dirty Jew.” It might be. Because they were being raised themselves in an environment that was totally anti-Semitic. 0 5943 Beverley's Involvement in the Business SC: Yeah. So if we move forward to when you got married and also how you became involved in the business, even if you didn’t go into the office every day. So if you can talk about how you got in, how you became involved in the business, and how you were involved, even though you didn’t go into work every day?
 ; 
 ; BB: I, actually, having been raised by a mother who was not home, I was truly averse to leaving my children. I almost made a vow that I would not marry anyone who would demand my participation in the business. But of course, Lenny and I discussed everything that he did, he would come home and we would talk. When he would have a jobber come to Allentown, of course it was up to me to be sure to entertain the jobber. 0 6260 Beverley's Community Involvement SC: What have you done in the community? How have you been a part of the Jewish community but also the wider community? 
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 ; BB: All right, when I was twenty, I went back- excuse me, when my child was twenty, excuse me- when my daughter who went to college, once she was able to go to college, I felt free to pursue my own education, and I went to Cedar Crest. The reason I went back to college was when she was about eight or nine, I started working as a volunteer at the Crippled Childrens Society. And I felt a real sense of a vocation for me. I liked working with people ; I liked helping people. And having raised this child and not having the ability to have a social worker help us — in 1958, there was no such thing as a social worker in the hospitals to send you home with a child who was going to profoundly need tremendous care. And your other children, when they would be involved in what had happened to the family — there was no such thing. So I saw my bent in life, I would become a social worker. So, it took me ten years. In the interim, I was active with Hadassah ; I was on the board of Hadassah. I was on the Board of the Temple, and when Rance Block was president, I became the social secretary- I don’t know what they called it. 0 6505 Did the Jewish Community Change in Allentown? SC: Did you, in those years, how did Allentown and the Jewish community and also in the wider community change?
 ; 
 ; BB: Well, as Lenny mentioned, the demographics of the community changed tremendously. When we bought our first home on Marshall Street, it was the end of the city. That was the end of the city. And then, of course, we saw the city move so much further west. And in terms of people who live here, it changed from a community of perhaps the entrepreneurs to professional men, mostly, as Lenny mentioned, medical. And so we saw that. 0 6782 Beverley Bloch's Perspective on Younger Generation Community Involvement SC: And is this the next generation or are these- Are the people that are involved now the people that have come in from other areas? Have you lost people that are, perhaps your children or your friends’ children, to go work in other places and live other places?
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 ; BB: Well, our children do not, unfortunately, live [here]. Our oldest son lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with his wife. I don’t think he’s- he does belong to a Chabad, but interestingly enough, he is married to a Baptist. 
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 ; SC: It’s the new generation.
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 ; BB: A new generation, yes. 0 6951 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: So, what do you value in life most?
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 ; BB: My family. My family, my culture, my Judaism, very much my Judaism. The years when we were raising our daughter, without my faith, I don’t think I would have gotten through easily. And Israel. We value Israel, we worry about Israel, and we worry, I think, about Judaism in general, and, you know, where is- where is our country going, in general. 0 7108 What Makes You Feel the Most Creative? SC: What makes you feel the most creative?
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 ; BB: Creative? That’s a very difficult question. Creative. I like to make mandel bread for my family, that’s my specialty, making mandel bread. 
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 ; GE: That’s like a- like biscotti?
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 ; BB: Biscotti, it’s a Jewish biscotti, and whenever I have to take something to a friend-
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 ; GE: I’ll have to give you a call to get the recipe. 
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 ; BB: Mine is a basic simple recipe, and everybody seems to love it. So that makes me feel very good to be able to do something like that. Creativity, I am not a musician of any sort. My chanting, my chanting makes me feel very creative.
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 ; SC: Yes, metaphoric sense of creativity. 0 MovingImage Leonard Bloch talks about his father’s reluctant start in the needle-trade business. A few years after Lenny’s father started the business, Lenny’s mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. As a result, rather than go to college, Lenny joined the business after he graduated from high school and quickly discovered he both enjoyed and had an affinity for managing the business.
 ; 
 ; Beverly Bloch talks about the challenge of growing up in Oliphant, PA in a home where her mom worked long hours in their “mom and pop” grocery store. Growing up without her own mother at home, Beverly was determined to be a stay-at-home mother to her children.
 ; Interview with Leonard Bloch, July 25, 2011 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today- LEONARD BLOCH: Is it all right if Beverley joins us? GAIL EISENBERG: Please. SC: Today is July 25, 2011, an interview- attending is Gail Eisenberg and Susan Clemens-Bruder. Hi. First of all, I would like to put you into context. And so if you could give your full name and your birth date? LB: Leonard Bloch, January 29, 1935. SC: Where were you born, and where did you live in your early life? LB: I was born in Wilmington, DE. Lived there at the most two years, I'm not sure the exact [time], and then my parents moved back to Allentown and I've lived here ever since. SC: And also, what is your family background? What- what- Where did your parents come from and what kind of education did they have? LB: My parents were both born in the United States, my mother in Coplay and lived in Allentown, and my dad is from Wilkes-Barre, PA. Both high school graduates. GE: How about their parents? LB: My father's family is from Germany, and I believe my mother's family is from Germany, as well. GE: And- And they were first generation? In other words, your parents- Do you know anything about when your parents, actually your grandparents came to America? Or what was the situation? LB: I don't know the dates. GE: Where did they settle? Did they live in which communities? LB: My dad's family settled in Wilkes Barre and always lived in Wilkes Barre. And my mom's family in the Lehigh Valley, as I said, started out in Coplay, which is just about five miles outside of Allentown and then to Allentown. GE: What kinds of careers or business or education did your- well I think you said that your parents were high school graduates. LB: Yes. GE: But what kinds of enterprise or business or jobs did they have? LB: My mother did not work, she was a housewife. Although prior to getting married, she was actually a coat buyer for Dobnoffs Store. SC: For the future, can you explain what Dobnoffs was? LB: Dobnoffs was a women's fine clothing store. SC: And where was it located? LB: In Allentown on Hamilton Street, I think between 6th & ; 7th. SC: And as far as your parents were concerned, did they actually come - did they come to Allentown at a specific time? LB: No. Well, my mother always- SC: She always lived in Coplay, but did they come to Allentown at a specific time and locate in Allentown proper, somewhere in Allentown? LB: I don't know what that date might have been. As I said, they initially settled right outside of Allentown and then moved into the city. GE: What did her parents do for a living? Your mother's parents. LB: Hm. Not really sure. I think they had a small dry goods store. My mother's father passed away quite young. I'm not sure just what age. And her mother lived close to 80. GE: What did your father do for a living? LB: My father worked for Sears Roebuck. He was the manager of the furniture department with Sears Roebuck. Sears was located on 7th Street at that time between Linden and Turner, and then they decided to build a new store which was located on 7th Street between Tilghman and Allen. During that period of time, they transferred my father to their Wilmington, DE store for about a two or three year period, and after that, he came back to Allentown, and he started in the garment business in approximately 1944-1945. GE: So he left Sears Roebuck? LB: Yes. He started out in two apartments at 716 and 718 Linden Street. They were two buildings that had three apartments in each building, and he converted the first-floor apartments, by knocking out walls, into a small garment factory. And... GE: So this was during the war, right? LB: Yes, it was just before the end of the war. GE: Right, right. --and what type of apparel? Was he a contractor? LB: It was a contracting shop, yes. And he made polo shirts. SC: And was- The factory was in Allentown? LB: Yes. SC: Did he have any other factories? LB: No. SC: Just the one in Allentown? LB: Yes. SC: So -- and we'll come back to all that -- but tell me a little bit more about you, as far as what was your educational background and how did you become involved in a business, and where did you work, actually, all your life? Did you have little jobs when you were young and then move into the garment industry? LB: How young? SC: As young as you can be. Paperboy? LB: No, I was never a paperboy. During the war, I used to, on the weekend, go around with my wagon and collect. At that time there was always a drive for some scrap metal, old rubber tires, and drippings from fats was used for munitions, and I would collect that and then sell it. Gas stations had places where you could buy that. I guess I was meant for the garment industry because we lived at 630 N. 23rd Street, had a nice front porch, and I invited all my friends on the porch, and I had little looms, and they made potholders. SC: That's great. GE: And you sold the potholders? LB: Yeah, I would put each potholder in a little sandwich bag, and I would go out around the neighborhood. GE: I remember making those potholders at camp. LB: Yeah it was a looping- GE: I know exactly what you're saying. SC: Any other jobs after that before you were an adult and got into a full-time business? LB: Well, when I started, when I was around 15, my mother started teaching me how to do bookkeeping. Payroll and things. My mother died young. She died when she was 47 -- breast cancer. GE: Is that why she taught you? Was she already sick? LB: No, she wasn't, she wasn't. I recall her having small ailments, but I think she wanted some help with it. She actually was very instrumental in encouraging my dad to go into the garment business. My dad was a furniture man, and... GE: So she was a visionary? LB: He really didn't know the garment business. In fact a funny aside -- the reason they were looking for a business, one of the motivating reasons, was because it was around that time in 1944 when Sears Roebuck was considering building another new building which they built out in the Lehigh Valley Mall. At first it was the one across the street from the Lehigh Valley Mall, the Whitehall Mall actually, and they were going to transfer my parents someplace else once again and they- my mother and my dad decided they wanted to stay in the same city. My brother and I, my brother's name is Stanley, Stanley passed away actually just in October of 2010. GE: Was Stanley older then you or younger than you? LB: No, younger. Stanley was 68 when he passed away. So they were going to go into some business. And their first thought was a luncheonette. Well first, actually their first thought they were thinking of the potato chip business, manufacturing potato chips. GE: Her, her- Interesting, her husband's family is Charles Chips. LB: Oh, really. GE: Yeah, her ex-husband's. SC: So they were thinking about that. And that was a perfect time to do it if you could get the oil. LB: They looked into the potato chip business, and they were all set to do that, and then they discovered that you don't get a pound of potato chips from a pound of potatoes when the water comes out it's a big difference, so it wasn't quite the gold mine that it appeared to be at first. So they rented one of these small apartments, and they were going to put a luncheonette there. And it was right around the corner from the Sears Roebuck store. Actually, the new store that they were going to build at that time was at 7th & ; Allen Street. I got ahead of the story a little bit. So they figured my dad's coworkers would walk around the corner and have lunch at the luncheonette. So they rented this apartment to be a luncheonette, and they had actually ordered luncheonette equipment already. Then before it came in before everything was delivered, they started thinking about the contracting business because there were a lot of sewing contracting shops in the area, and they changed their minds. They canceled the soda fountain equipment and luncheonette equipment and got sewing machines instead. So it was kind of a circuitous way to get into the clothing business. In any event, I graduated high school in June of 1952, and I had been planning to go to college, but along about July of 1952, my dad came to me and told me that my mother had breast cancer. And he wanted to spend some time with her, and they would have to go to doctors visits and so on and so forth, so could I go down to the factory and just take care of things, and I knew nothing about it except the bookkeeping, and going in after school, so I knew what a polo shirt looked like. So, of course, I said fine, and all of a sudden overnight, I was the boss of about twelve, thirteen, fourteen people. SC: So- and so you stayed there, and you didn't end up going to college? LB: No I didn't. SC: You went into the business. LB: Yeah, I liked it. My dad really didn't like it. My mom passed away in August of '53, and he continued to need me, and I just stayed. And I can't say, you know, I really always liked it. SC: You didn't have any- Did you have to go into the service at all in those years? LB: No, somehow I missed the service. Beverly and I were married in 1954 in November and missed the draft. Which we weren't unhappy about. SC: Can you talk a little bit now about the business? What were the operations, what- how- how did you set it up, or your father set it up and you continue it? LB: Well, as I said, my dad was not really a garment man, so he made polo shirts, and he really wasn't interested in making other types of garments. The polo shirt market was not one that I saw a future in even in the early 1950s. At that time, rather than things being manufactured in other countries, there was a migration to the South. There was a lot of clothing being made in the South. So I started looking at other types of clothing to make, and my dad always told me that if you go to work every day and you're there in the morning, whatever you do, if you make a mistake or whatever you do, we'll work it out, don't worry about it. Just be on time and we won't worry about mistakes, and he was always true to that. I did some crazy things. Most of them worked out. So one of the first different kinds of garments that I made that was really significantly different in 1955 I started making bouffant petticoats, which is a far cry-- GE: Now tell me what they are? LB: Bouffant petticoats when you have a billowy... GE: Is that when you would have a big formal gown? Oh. LB: No actually. SC: Like a big skirt in the 50s? GE: Oh, they wore these petticoats underneath it. SC: Yeah, yeah. LB: Women wore- this was a big thing. Just an everyday dress, there was a couple and women would wear more than one bouffant to make it very, very billowy. Well to make a dozen polo shirts at that time the minimum wage was with- for sewing machine operators was I think around $.60 an hour, something like that, and we were a union shop -- International Ladies Garment Workers Union. And to make a dozen polo shirts was maybe $.85 just supplying the thread and just make a dozen polo shirts, and if it was open shoulders it was maybe $1.00 a dozen. Everything was in units of twelve or a dozen, and there was just not enough business in that market. So Bouffant petticoats, first Bouffant petticoat I made, priced- we got $3.25 per dozen for making. And it was totally different but somehow I could see there was a future in it. It really wasn't that many more operations. They were like day and night as far as being different, but... For instance, what made them billowy so that they would hold the skirt out was the starch they put into the material but when you go to sew this each ruffle they were made in tiers and as it got longer each strip that you put on was larger than the prior piece and so you had to ruffle it in and you did that by using a shearing blade. Well, as that blade hit the fabric, it would kick out the starch, so that was very abrasive. It was so abrasive that it changed tops for the sewing machine after two or three months because it wore the table down. So you can imagine what it did to women's hands. To protect their hands, I bought calfskin gloves, and that would protect their hands. And they would have to change them daily because they would wear through. They could get starch in their eyes, so I bought plastic goggles, and it looked like a space- a spacesuit. Canvas aprons so it didn't damage their clothing. But with all these work aids, it worked out. Then I devised a system that once a girl ran a ruffle on, there was just a utility person who would take it from them and fold it in half and put it back in their work bin, so it was ready for the next ruffle after they finished putting all the first on. And that kept them sewing more often. GE: Is this -- I'm just curious -- the product I do remember as a little girl something called crinoline? LB: That's it, it was, yes. Crinoline. GE: I'm just wondering, so what your saying is, compared to the polo shirts, there is much more value added, that you were able to get a lot -- you know, given your raw material and given the selling price -- there was a much higher margin, right? LB: Yeah. GE: But obviously it also had a lot more obstacles, this was a more difficult- LB: Yes, for instance, packaging each crinoline, each bouffant had to be rolled up and put a rubber band around it so it wouldn't unroll and then pack either 3 in a box or 6 in a box depending on how billowy or what the style was. And this was a cumbersome job to try to roll this thing up and then try and put a rubber band on it. So I was, one day I was trying to figure out a way -- there has to be an easier way to do this then to struggle with it, because it really was a struggle if you can imagine it. The minimum sweep, sweep on the bottom, was maybe 3 yards that's 100 inches wiry and stiff. So I got an idea and went to a toy store and I bought sand buckets. I cut the bottom out with a can opener. Mounted it on a piece of 1 x 3 wood and mounted that on a table now the packing girl only had to grab it by the top, put it in the large opening at the top, and rubber bands were slid onto the can as it came to the end it just snapped. So the production went from maybe taking 5 minutes to roll up one to be able to do it in 5-6 seconds. GE: Wow! SC: That's what American business was made of. Ingenuity. GE: Honestly, it sounds like you were doing a lot of industrial engineering. LB: Yeah. GE: Did you have anybody else kind of helping you come up with these ideas? LB: No. GE: Your shop was basically you, and then was it about just like 15 sounds like 15 operators? LB: Yes. My dad started hiring more people. Then in 1956--actually maybe '55, I was looking for a larger place, new quarters. And let's see -- Craig was born in '55. We moved into our new quarters in 1956. The new quarters happened to be the two floors above the Lyric Theatre on 6th Street. Now it's- sure, you know, Symphony Hall they call it now. In those days, it was a burlesque house called Lyric Theatre. GE: Oh, wow. SC: There were stories from there. LB: There was no elevator in the building. I had the two floors above the main floor, and those two floors were equivalent. The sewing was on the top floor, which was the third floor and finishing was on the second floor, but because it was over a theatre with high ceilings, it was actually equivalent to a third floor and fourth floor in terms of getting to it. So we were able to put a conveyor on the front stairway to carry the freight in and to carry freight out as well. The Bouffants were, as I said, maybe six in a box, the particular style that I am thinking of, and we would ship them out every day -- maybe some days 200 dozen, that's 400 boxes. You could have someone all day long carrying them down the steps and unwieldy. So the building was right on the corner of the alley. So what I actually did was make a chute from the fire escape because that building had an outdoor fire escape. So I had an aluminum chute fashioned that folded up into 3-foot sections, so we slid them down. So that was another big labor-saving situation that converted something that could have taken a whole day to 400 boxes shooting down in 45 minutes. GE: Wow. Got a lot of labor and time-saving ideas. LB: Yes. GE: Now, at this time, were you still doing polos and bouffant or just the bouffants? LB: There were some polos, yes, but not too many because it was bouffants. Bouffants didn't last forever, though. Bouffants didn't last forever though. SC: No, I was going to ask, what happened to the '60s! GE: But while you were doing this, were there many other bouffant manufacturers in the area, or were you primarily the only one? LB: There were a few others around, but... they had a lot of trouble. GE: They didn't have some of these innovative ideas. LB: If you can just imagine a seamstress getting starch in her eyes is- is a significant thing. The goggles that I got prevented a lot of it, but I also had an arrangement with a local physician where- when they got impacted, I would have them taken up to the doctor's office, they would clean out their eyes, and it had just gone in so it would just be in the corners. It was fine. SC: Did you ever have a problem with other industrial spies coming in to see all your good practices? LB: No. SC: Because it was a small enough operation? LB: Yeah, well now I was up to maybe 50 people operating. And we'll get to it later, I moved -- my dad passed away in 1967, and in 1971 I moved to South Carlisle Street. Beverley and I bought two of those buildings, it was the old Quaker Shoe buildings, and there I was using about- I bought 75,000 feet and I only used maybe 25,000. The rest was leased out to other things. So I sort of got back into the real estate business. GE: Now, when was this? LB: That was in 1971. And I liked the real estate business, so we started buying apartments, and then I started building apartments. So I was really in the Garden Apartment business. GE: Were you still in the manufacturing- still in the garment business? LB: Oh, yea. SC: The Garden Apartment--this building? These buildings? LB: No, no. SC: So I have a couple of questions. First of all, in the '60s, what happened with the bouffant business and was polo generic polo shirts, or was it for Polo? LB: T-shirt -- no, it was not for Polo. SC: So the idea of generic polo, because Polo then had the name. LB: Today, polo shirts are called t-shirts, and it's one of the biggest items, but it's very difficult to find a store that carries American made t-shirts. They are all made off-shore. And that was something that was actually- you could forecast was going to happen. Following WWII, the world was flat, and they needed industry, and there is no more exportable industry, at least as I read the tea leaves, then the garment industry. During those days you could buy a sewing machine, table, and motor for under $1,000 and put a person to work. So whether it be Haiti or Japan at that time or wherever it might be, it was a very exportable industry, and t-tops or polo shirts were a good place to start. So following bouffants, we started making ladies sportswear and children's, as well. Two-piece sets. Knit polo shirt tops with slacks, popular-priced though, and then we went into ladies as well -- but also popular priced. One of the key features of a popular-priced slack, for instance, was an elastic top rather than a tailored top with button closure. And then eventually at the high point between the day shift and the night shift, we had close to 200 people working. SC: When- In these years, when you were doing this, who did you contract with? What contactors and where- what manufactures? LB: Manufacturers. SC: And where were they? LB: Mostly from New York and mostly unbranded. There's- We did a little work for Liz Claiborne, barely enough to mention. We did some for some national brands, Norma Kamali, but very little. The majority of the work was unbranded manufacturers, and these people sold to the volume users like Kmart, JCPenney, Sears. SC: This is tape 2. Today is July 25th, and this is an interview with Leonard Bloch. I didn't say that before. So, you were just going to say you gave out-- LB: I gave out 25-year gold watches, and I must have given out -- I have a plaque on my wall, I still have a little office downtown -- but I gave out close to forty, twenty-five year watches. When I finally, when I closed the plant down in 1990 we were down to about- between 45 and 50 employees left, and I really hung in longer than I should have economically, but a lot of people there that I knew forever and of those 45 to 50 people, somewhere between 25 and 30 of them were there in excess of 25 or 30 years. In many cases, when their daughters would grow up, they would have their daughters come in or even their sons on occasion would work. And we went- I used to take work in, I always wanted to keep the plant busy, and I felt that it was better to take something in that on paper figured out to be break even or even lose a little than to lay off. So actually for years when people worked for me they knew they had a job. We never ran into any unemployment problem whatsoever until the late '80s when I had to lay people off. There was- I took in anything just to keep busy. And it worked out advantageously even when it figured to be a loser. It wasn't all that bad because you're still- your rent costs the same whether you're working or you're not working. GE: Right. LB: And I still talk to a lot of people that worked for us. SC: Did we ask you the name of your company? LB: No. SC: I didn't think we did. LB: It was Leonard Manufacturing. Somehow I guess my parents thought I would be involved in it. SC: It was ordained. GE: Who did-? LB: I should also mention that my brother Stanley, following high school, came to the factory to work for a short period of time, but he never really liked it. I very much felt that he should go to school. He felt that since I didn't, he shouldn't have to, and that was a bone of contention. But in any event, he was in the automobile business, used cars, and never really liked the factory. GE: Did you- did you do your own selling- I don't know if it would be selling but who was really getting the contracts? LB: Me. GE: Okay. So you were really the salesman with the factory, with the manufacturers rather, and you were also the operations person. LB: Right. GE: Wow. SC: A lot of work. LB: I wish there were cell phones in those days, 'cause I remember well driving to New York and en route to New York, stopping at a phone booth maybe two-three times. Or if we went on vacation or just a day trip, stopping and using the phone booth to call. "What's happening? I have certain things scheduled to be shipped that day." SC: When the business started, did your father embrace the union right away, and was this something that you were committed to, to having the union in your operations? LB: My dad did embrace the union very early on, and I was committed to it, absolutely. GE: What was your father's first name? LB: He was known as Jay Sydney. His name was Joseph Sydney, but everyone called him Sydney. He went by the name Sydney. SC: So, as far as him starting with the union, was he actually large enough to have to commit to the union in those early years? LB: Probably not, but he did. SC: So do you have any anecdotes about or stories that you remember about your years in the business? Anything that just strikes you -- funny, sad, interesting? LB: I made mention a few moments ago about sliding the cartons down the outdoor fire escape. Well, the first time that I did that, it was for a local company called Movie Star. Actually, it was a New York company, but they had a plant in Allentown, a shipping point in Allentown. And before I had the chute made, we actually just went out the fire escape door and dropped the boxes down one at a time. Well, the first time I did this, the truck driver thought we were crazy. He came running upstairs to use the telephone and called his boss, a man named Charlie Halperin [?]. And Charlie heard this, "He's throwing your bouffants out the window!" He jumped in his car, this was in 1956 or maybe 1957, somewhere in there. Came running over with every intent of murdering me and just coincidentally Beverley and I had dinner with him last night. We became friends, best friends ever since. He immediately saw, like in geometry, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. But he liked it better when we put the chute there, and his bouffants weren't flying. GE: Now, how was your- Was your father very- Was there any tension in terms of your father letting such a young person kind of take the lead on the business, or did that transition happen easily because he wasn't really enjoying the business anyway? LB: Yeah, it happened pretty easily. GE: And then he was really just appreciative of it. LB: Yeah, if people- if any of the workers tried to go around me, which happened- GE: Especially in the early years, I imagine, when you were younger. LB: There's always a floor lady in the plant who directs the girls, I would direct the floor person. So there was little- but that was quickly-- GE: Abated. SC: What skills did you have? How did you divide the skills, for instance, there is the floor person, floor lady, and were all the workers women? LB: No, I had -- well, I had a cutting department, and the cutters were, the cutter was always a man. The shipper, the shipping clerk. In those days, you wouldn't think of a female shipping clerk. So- and I had a mechanic, had a very good mechanic was one of the keys to being successful with some of these different things because a mechanic not only fixed machines and keep them running and sewing machines can constantly break, and if you skip a stitch, it's a second, it has to be repaired ; but he could make attachments. Like often we made blouses and buffonces. The bottom row of the bouffant I told you was a minimum 3-yard sweep, and they got up to actually- there was one time that we had one bouffant that had a 100-yard sweep on the bottom. 100 yards. And 50 yards was commonplace. Well the bottom tier had to be bound or hemmed and we did this automatically at stop motion so that if the material would run out, or the thread would run out or if anything happened the machine would stop, and there were folders that would guide all these different things in at the same time. So I was fortunate to have a good mechanic that could make all these different attachments. SC: And did he develop them himself, or did he learn from other, you know, from directions? LB: No, he was just innately good. I could show him what I wanted to do... GE: And he could figure out how to- LB: And he could take a-- We had a certain kind of metal, a soft, malleable metal and he would shape it and solder it and do it. SC: In the 19th century, they called that a mechanical genius. It sounds like he was. LB: When these automatic machines, one girl could run six machines at one time, because if something went wrong, it stopped. SC: So your technology increased from the '50s to the '90s, the sophistication? LB: Well that was just in the Bouffants. SC: Just in the Bouffants, yeah. LB: In the blouse industry, there wasn't automatic. There were plenty of attachments and things to do, and I always looked for niche garments, something that would be difficult for someone to make. If I could make something that had some kind of difficult twist to it, there wouldn't be competition for maybe a six-month period or something like that. And that was enough time to pay for the investment, and then whatever happened would happen. SC: So, the sewers--so there was the shipping department, there was the mechanic and- LB: The cutting department. SC: The cutting department, which is- is really an amazing skill. And then from there were the workers actually divided up into specific skills or did somebody make a whole blouse or-? LB: Nobody made a whole anything. It was all- Like there were sleevers. First thing on a shirt, you would close the shoulders. And then sometimes, like in a blouse, maybe the collars would be in a separate little bundle with a bundle number on it so that bundle #1 went with collars #1 and someone could be working on the collars while the shoulders were being closed, for instance ; and then same thing with collar setters, sleeve setters and hemmers. GE: So, in terms of let's say the labor force that you had, you had men -- you had somebody as a mechanic, a cutter, a shipper -- and were- and women were, of course, the sewing operators. And were there other types of jobs? Oh, pressers. LB: Finishing. GE: Yeah, pressers okay, and that would also be women. Correct? LB: Correct. But I had an automatic pressing system for our type of clothing, did an adequate job. If you get into more expensive blouses they have to be hand-pressed, and certain things did need hand pressing but I had a steam tunnel so when clothing was shipped out on hangers, which was the case 90% of the time, once they were trimmed, loose threads taken off and so on, they were put on a hanger and they went on a conveyor worm, and it took it through a steam tunnel. It would be steamed, blow through it and get all the wrinkles out, and it would continue to an automatic bagging machine, like your dry cleaning bags, and the same kind of rack except there were arms on it, and it grabs the polyethylene, pulls it down, seals it, cut it off. GE: Got it ready. LB: So that was a big thing if you can just visualize ladies standing, pressing as opposed to going through the tunnel. SC: And I think- you had said about the cutters. Were the cutters using a pattern and then hand cutting or was that mechanized too so that a form would be created in the machinery and then cut tons and tons of--? LB: First thing, something called a marker was created. First, you have to have a pattern. You didn't make the patterns. The manufacturers made their own patterns ; they knew what their design was going to be. In many cases, they made their own markers as well although we had the capacity to make markers, but I preferred that they make their own markers so that if they feel that there should be 5 yards to a dozen- if they make a marker and they find it is taking 5-1/4 yards, they knew upfront-- GE: How much fabric-- LB: So then the cloth was put on a spreading machine, and I had an automatic spreading machine for large orders where you could just put a bolt of cloth on it, and it would go back and forth by itself and stop if there was a flaw in the material so it could be cut out. But in any event, the cloth had to be spread out on- spreading on the table, and you could go up depending- blouse material was usually like 55-60" wide and it was called "open", usually woven fabric as opposed to t-tops were made out of knits, and the knit fabric was usually tubular. So if you put up 100, 100 plies of tubular, you really have 200 if your doing it open. So we would generally spread let's say 100 plies of tubular ply and might not compact quite as firmly open goods, so maybe you would only get 180, and then you put the marker on top of all these goods, and the knife is usually like 10" in height, although there are shorter ones, and they push it through following the line, and that's how you cut- cut out the different parts for the different garments. There were automatic cutting systems available too, but that didn't fit my type of- an automatic cutting system would be a good way like in a blue jean factory where you were just making millions of garments and everything is the same. SC: It gave you more flexibility in the business, it would seem -- that you could get in and out of one item.. GE: You have more niches. LB: Yeah, right. GE: Were there any other administrative people besides yourself? Or you were really the soul- LB: Yes. GE: The brains behind the whole operation and the selling. LB: Whatever. SC: Yeah. Wow. LB: The real estate business also became a significant part of my- SC: Was that unionized? LB: No. No. First I just bought, we just bought a couple of buildings, and then I actually built a few buildings. The largest one was in Allentown, 48 apartments. GE: Oh, where? Which? I mean, is it just- is it a complex? LB: Yeah. Garden Apartments, South Tioga Street. GE: Okay. I don't know--is that South Allentown? SC: That's South Allentown. LB: And I had some in Emmaus. You might know -- we owned at one point the Powder Mill Apartments back on Furnace Street. SC: Oh yeah. LB: I don't know if you are familiar with Emmaus. SC: Yes, I live outside of Emmaus. I have to visit them. GE: Now was this somewhat the '70s when the real estate is becoming a much larger part? LB: I started that right after we bought the Quaker Shoe buildings in 1972. GE: Okay. LB: So, between 1972 and maybe in 1993, we did real estate. SC: Was there a specific impetus for you to get into building your own after you bought in- bought some? LB: I really just liked it. SC: That's a good reason. GE: And I assume also at the same time the apparel was becoming a more difficult business, a less profitable, a more competitive business, going more overseas and things of that nature. LB: Well, not until the late '80s. GE: Oh, that happened more in the late '80s. Okay, okay. So in the '70s, when you were getting into this, you just saw this as a new adventure in a sense. LB: Right. GE: Just an expanding of your- LB: Didn't have enough to do. SC: Did you plan out the apartments, how they were going to be set up, sort of in the same way you did with your sewing business? LB: When I did that, I always worked with an architect. SC: But you had ideas about how you wanted them to be laid out? LB: Well, actually, I would always run it by an interior decorator first, make sure the furniture- there was enough wall space. Women always want a breakfront and just to make sure. Sometimes a wall just being a few inches too short is a big impediment to its being marketable. But believe it or not, one of the first things that women would look for, "Is there room for my breakfront?" BEVERLEY BLOCH: [inaudible]. LB: Everything washers and dryers. The Tioga Street property, I did put a washer and dryer in each apartment, but prior to that, we had laundry rooms, which was a lucrative business as well. SC: But that movement as you- it got more towards the present was people wanted their- LB: Sure, but there is still the laundry machine business, laundromats, is still a good business. GE: Interesting. LB: Not a bad business. There is a large one that opened up about two years ago on 8th Street between 9th and 10th. GE: On 8th Street where, between Tilghman? LB: No, on Linden Street. GE: Linden, okay. LB: Between 9th & ; 10th. SC: And that would be a good area to have one. LB: Well, the area for laundromats is where there's older homes and people would not have washers and dryers. If they have their own washers and dryers, they are not going to go to a laundromat. SC: New populations. LB: But there are a lot of people who still don't have washers and dryers. GE: Any of your children- Did any of your children get involved either in the real estate part or in the garment, in the textile? LB: No, not really. Our oldest son, Craig, is a pediatrician. Our daughter sold advertising space for a Washington newspaper, and now she is a special education teacher for reading. SC: What's her name? LB: Carol. And our youngest son, Wayne, is an attorney, and he was a partner in Philadelphia, Klehr Harrison. And he gave- he left that firm about twelve years ago and started his own hedge fund, he's in the investment business now. GE: Oh, okay. LB: And as far as the sewing business, they could have been interested in it, particularly our older son, but I could see at that point without a doubt that the future for the clothing manufacturing business was not bright and rosy. GE: Right. LB: And he was so good in the sciences. GE: Right. He is lucky you had that foresight. LB: And so I said I think you should go to school for the sciences. SC: Where did he go to school? LB: Ah, Craig went to Tufts undergrad, Carol went to the University of Maryland, and Wayne went to the University of Michigan. GE: All wonderful schools, right. SC: This is an American story, this is a dream story. BB: [Inaudible]. GE: Well, you know what, Beverley, we'll interview you. No, no, no because- because- right. No, no, absolutely. SC: This is tape number 3, July 25th, 2011, an interview with Leonard Bloch. And can we talk about flex time? When you started flex time before probably anybody did and also how you allowed women to work with their families in mind in other ways? LB: I was able to handle flexible hours. If an employee had an elderly parent or children or whatever the need might be, they did not have to work 7 1/2 continuous hours. That was our...overtime was first over 7 1/2 and then over 7. But they could work, have an extra hour or two for lunch or just work mornings or just work afternoons or a combination of mornings and evenings or just evenings, and it worked out well for them, and it didn't hurt me. I could- I had their loyalty. If I needed a favor in return, it was no problem. SC: That's wonderful. And when did you- Did you start that right from the beginning? LB: Yeah. GE: In fact, why don't you share with us- You were saying that where the typical shift ended at 3:30, if you wanted to stay a little bit but if you had a job that required people to work later... LB: Oh, right. If I had an order that had to go out and wasn't finished, it just wasn't going to be done by quitting time, and I needed people to stay to finish it, the only reason someone would refuse generally speaking was if they just had a commitment or a responsibility that they just couldn't, but they could stay until 8, 9 o'clock in the evening on many occasions. SC: So do you have any other questions about the business that you can think of? GE: No, and then we will talk about a little bit when you were saying in terms of family, as well as your sense . . . how about your sense of the Allentown textile industry, or I shouldn't say the Allentown, I should say the Lehigh Valley -- because there were a lot of contractors, correct? LB: There were. There were several hundred in the Lehigh Valley at one time. GE: Right. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Was there much collaboration among the contractors? Was it very competitive among the contractors? How did all- some of those things--? LB: It was a competitive market. It was competitive for help, seamstresses. It was competitive for getting the work, getting the contracts for- Speaking of contracts, it's not in the usual context of a contract. In my over 40 years in the business, I never had one written contract. It was always word of mouth. I would go to New York and some style we decided we were going to make, and it was just, the industry didn't lend itself to contracts. Like they could say, we are going to make this style for the next one month, or 24 months, they didn't know any more than I knew, so it was always just- And if someone would come in at some point and make it for less money, you might lose it if you couldn't meet the price. And in the New York market, the New York jobbers as they were called, the people I dealt with, some of the sharpest, shrewdest business people you would ever meet. GE: Now when you say the jobbers, they were therefor in between the manufacturer and a contractor? LB: No, the jobber and manufacturer would be synonymous. GE: Okay. But they were the ones who actually were selling them to the department stores or to whatever. LB: They sold the merchandise to the department stores. GE: Okay, and who you worked with was just the person in their firm who worked with whoever was going to make it for them? LB: Right. GE: What about, were you associated with the contractors association? Because we spoke with, we did meet with Arnold Delin. LB: Yes- No, I never joined. GE: Okay, just wondering. Okay, why? You didn't feel it was in your interest, or--? LB: Well, obviously, I guess I didn't feel it was in my interest, which maybe I was right or maybe I was wrong. GE: Right. LB: I always did my own negotiation with the union. I never had a strike, and I never gave in too easily. And I just felt, I guess-- GE: That it wasn't needed. Okay. LB: It wasn't, it wasn't in my interest. And I was one of the few plants that did not belong to the Association. But if you belong to the Association and the Association decided to go in a certain direction, you were obligated, I would be obligated to go in that direction as well. GE: And you wanted more, both autonomy and independence that way? LB: Yes. GE: Were there any directions that they went into that you did very differently? LB: No, they were very good for the members that they represented, and there were times I should've- when I thought maybe I should have joined, but I didn't. GE: Right. SC: I hope this question isn't too much of a tangent, but when you go to New York, and you see racks of clothing being wheeled down the street in the garment industry, the garment center of New York City, well how does that fit into the whole picture? And I'm showing my ignorance of not knowing. LB: Well, in New York there are also a lot of contractors, and many times there's the garment district, so if the contracting shop is close to the manufacturer or jobber that they got the work from, they'll just load it on racks and push them down the street. GE: Oh, so it's just that. LB: Yeah, so it's just the convenience. GE: Right, they don't have to worry about having trucks deliver it. SC: Especially in New York City. LB: Right. SC: Could we talk a little bit about your work in the community and in, you know, just in the general community, wherever you have been involved? GE: Actually, before we get into that, what are your memories of the community? In other words, when you were a child, you can give us a little bit of insight, what was the Allentown community like, and what was the Allentown Jewish community like? Both institutionally, what you know, what institutions were here, where were they, how active were they, what was the size of the community, where did it live, you know things of that nature? LB: Well, I've always lived here, and I guess summing up, you could say I always loved my community. And, after Beverley and I were married, we both loved the community. And I was active in the community, as you know. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was President of the School Board for a couple years. I was on the Board of Temple Beth El. I was president of Temple Beth El from 1982-1987. I was president of the Endowment Foundation for about 10-11 years. It started in 1987-1988, whenever my term as president ended. And I was a Trustee at St. Luke's Hospital for 10 years, from 1982-1991. GE: I'm sorry, that was St. Luke's? LB: St Luke's Hospital. Don Ritter, Congressman Don Ritter, appointed me to the Local Small Business Administration Advisory Board. I was on that for about three years, one term. What else did I do? GE: That's pretty good. SC: Yeah, that's a pretty long list. How about when you were in high school, were you involved in the community in any way? Or at school, in the activities at school? LB: Not big involvements . . . GE: Were you in the youth group? Were you in AZA? LB: I was in SAR. GE: SAR. Can you just tell us what SAR is? LB: Sigma Alpha Roe. GE: Okay, and is that a secular fraternity, or is that a Jewish one? LB: It's a Jewish fraternity. GE: Oh, okay yeah, I knew of AZA. LB: Yes, it's a cove.[?] GE: Okay. LB: But not affiliated with any umbrella group. GE: Okay. And did your family, were they members at Beth El? LB: Yes. GE: Okay. So your member- your leadership at Beth El, your leadership at the hospital, at the Small Business Advisory Group, did all of these activities, would you say this is starting in the '70s? Most of this leadership, the leadership roles? Or even earlier? LB: Oh yeah, there was a handicapped group at the Good Shepherd Home. GE: What is that called? LB: It was called Operation Overcome. They couldn't afford a lawyer, so they had me as chairman of their legal committee. GE: And this is, this is with just a high school? LB: Yes. This was in the days before- when curb cuts were just getting started. GE: Oh, the curb cut, yeah. LB: And I organized a roll on the mall since Bartholomew was the mayor at the time. GE: Gosh that's before my- SC: Was that in the early '80s? GE: I think earlier. SC: Earlier than that? LB: Earlier. It was in the, perhaps in the late- GE: Because Doddona was in the '70s when I came in the late 70s. LB: Pretty sure it was Chip. In any event, the mayor, whoever he was, said, rolling off a curb is such a small thing, why would you need a ramp? And it's going to be an impediment for able-bodied people when the sidewalk slopes down. I said I'll tell you what, do me a favor, any day it is convenient for you and one or two or three other City Council people, let's have a roll from 10th Street down to city hall. And after you've bounced up and down from the curbs, if you still tell me that it's nothing, I'll go away -- on a wheelchair. And so after that they endorsed curb cuts. And then the addition was being built for, at that time, Allentown High School. Now it's William Allen High School. On Linden Street, they were building a Library and Science addition, and they were not putting an elevator in into the building. So when I went to speak to the Chairman of the School Board, they said there is already an elevator in the main section, and there is going to be a way to get from that main section to the new section. And besides, there is going to be library and science rooms in the old section as well as in the new section. So my response to that was I think that went out a couple years ago with separate but equal. But as things worked out, we didn't make any progress on that. So my lawyer at the time was Clayton Hyman, I got him to file a lawsuit against the school district, which he did pro bono. And we got the state Department of Labor and Industry to file a brief on our behalf in support of it. And the end of the story is, they not only redesigned the building once they understood the problem -- they came and sat down and listened and they understood -- and they redesigned the building and put an elevator in the design. But the new Administration Building on 4th and Penn was already built and could no longer be brought into this lawsuit. It was from- with the American Disabilities Act, the basis, they retrofitted that building, but there was room on the outside to patch in an elevator, similar to what they did at the Lyric Theater. Now there is an elevator on the parking lot side. So we got an elevator in the Administration Building which during the negotiations I made mention that there are physically challenged people in the community, and we have more than our share because of the Good Shepherd Home. People are residents there, and they can do things, but a step prevents them from going into a building they are paying taxes for and being able to work there. And so, that was- GE: That's really something. That's really wonderful. And so again, just for me to get a little bit of a timeline, so all of these things were these things that you were involved in starting around the '70s, all of these different things, your leadership roles? LB: No, I guess- GE: Even earlier? LB: Yeah. GE: [19]60s, maybe? The '60s and on? LB: In the '60s, right, hon? GE: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm saying that would be 50 years ago. I'm not exactly sure how old you are, 70-? LB: Seventy-six. GE: Seventy-six. So you think these were things, even leadership, you started getting involved even in your 20s or 30s or-? LB: Yeah. GE: And tell us about your memories of the Jewish community when you were, because you grew up here your whole life, as a child and teen versus a young adult, you know, versus a father in, you know, your 30s and 40s and now as a senior? You know, what have you seen? How has it changed? You know a little bit of that. LB: Well in terms of demographics, the Jewish community has moved in a Western direction like for instance, Temple Beth El used to be at 17th and Hamilton- GE: And I guess when you were younger, it was even 6th or something? LB: I was BarMitzvahed at 12th and Walnut. GE: 12th and Walnut, is that where it started? 12th and Walnut? LB: Yes, that's where it started. Well, we were married at 19, so as a young person ; and we were dating since we were 16--15? Yeah, 15. GE: Isn't that unbelievable? Wonderfully so. LB: Yeah. I was very active in Sigma Alpha Rho and the Jewish Community Center. I was not active in sports. GE: What- Where was the Jewish Community Center? LB: 6th and Chew. GE: Okay, and that was there until- when did it move to 27th and Tilghman? LB: 1958, yeah. SC: Okay. And is that when some people in the African American community started the Negro Cultural Center? Right around that time? LB: They bought the building. SC: Yeah. LB: Yeah, I'm not real aware of it. SC: And then, of course, it's the Health Department, the Conference of Churches, I guess now. GE: But it moved itself to 22nd and Tilghman really just to move with the community, I assume? LB: Right. Oh, and the new Beth El building was built, Rance Block and I supervised the construction with the Butz Company. We- GE: This one? The new building? The last- right. LB: Yeah. Rance and I met with the Butz Company on a weekly or every other week basis, or as needed. And the building came in on time. Started in January and moved into the following January. SC: Wow. And now you're neighbors? Now you're neighbors, you and Lee Butz? LB: Oh yeah. SC: So, did the community change in the next generation, in your children's generation in any way? GE: Did it get larger, smaller, less cohesive, more cohesive? LB: I think the Jewish community has certainly grown. From a business point of view, you don't have the individual business owners that there once were. Like for instance, in the garment industry at one time, it was a really significant- GE: A big presence. LB: Significant presence. The retail stores along Hamilton Street are no longer there, but the professional community has grown, particularly the medical community. And I think the growth for this area in the medical community is certainly going to continue. Right now, St Luke's has an affiliation with Temple University and the new medical school. St. Luke's has started constructing already ; they own a 500-acre tract at the intersection of Route 33 and 78. And they started building, there's going to be a General Electric, they are going to have one of only five in the country, showplace of their latest x-ray and scanners. GE: That will be wonderful for the community. SC: Do you remember any of the names of in- the needle trades right in Allentown? Maybe that would be something to write down sometime. It would be really- LB: You mean other- SC: Other businesses, yeah. LB: Schneider Manufacturing. That's Irwin Schneider. Allentown Manufacturing. That's George Hirsch. GE: We have Leonard- Len Manufacturing? Is that what it was called? LB: Leonard. Leonard Manufacturing. SC: But if you think of any, it would be really helpful if we- you know just to sort of look back maybe in the newspapers or anything. GE: Who all- You know who I have a feeling will be able to give me a lot of those names? LB: Arnold Delin. GE: Oh, Arnold Delin, yes. LB: He could take out- GE: Yes. LB: He could take out- GE: Yes. SC: Yes, yes. LB: He could take out this list. They'll all be there. SC: Yes, sorry, that's true. GE: But actually even, even Rance. I was surprised how much he knew the names because he gave me a whole list of people to contact. LB: Lot of clients. Yes. GE: But he said, you know I insured them all. And I thought that was interesting, you know, you don't necessarily think of that. Or at least I didn't initially think of that, so I thought that was interesting. SC: I have another tangential question that's a little self-interested. Do you remember anything about the years when the Urban Renewal Processes were going around- on in Allentown, especially the Little Lehigh Renewal Project that was the most contentious in Allentown? Were you involved with the city or any- any portion of that at that time? LB: No. I remember when they wanted to change Hamilton Street into the Hamilton Mall, and I felt, along with the merchants, that that was a poor direction to go in. The merchants I clearly remember were solidly against changing Hamilton Street to one way and making it narrow. And I think the time has proven that they were right. All around the country in those days, the cities were tearing down old elevated subways or railways, whatever it was, and we were making our own Hell coming down Hamilton Street. SC: So, some of the- You answered most of the questions before we could ask them. You honestly did, you followed through in such a logical fashion. We asked about the wider community, and I- GE: But you know, we may want to ask in here in terms of just a little bit, I thought it was actually wonderful what Beverley was saying in terms of what you were able to offer your family education-wise and your wife education-wise. And I think that gets into here. SC: Yeah. GE: And so do you want to just share that with us because it wasn't on the last tape. LB: Well, Beverley certainly didn't come to work in the factory every day. We were always involved in everything together. We've been partners in everything. The factory and the building- GE: Did you say she did come to work? LB: No, she didn't. GE: She did not, okay. LB: But, we did things together. GE: Right. And do you want to just share with us that eventually one of the, maybe, one of the things you were able to do, putting your children through college, letting your wife go to college that she never had that opportunity. If you just want to share, you and Beverley mentioned it briefly before, but we just don't have it on the tape. And so where your children ended up going to college, you were able to do without them taking out loans. LB: Yeah, well, we both certainly knew the value of education. And there was no question that our children were going to go to college and it was great that after our kids were in college, that Bev could go back to school and get her degree. GE: Right. And where did Bev go to school? LB: Cedar Crest. GE: Right. And also, do you want to just tell us where your children ended up going to school? You already told us, but for the tape. LB: Oh, I thought it was already on tape. GE: No, it wasn't. It was in between tapes. LB: My son Greg went to undergrad at Tufts University, and he went to medical school at Duke. Our daughter Carol went to the University of Maryland, and our son Wayne went to the University of Michigan and got his law degree at BU, Boston University. GE: Wonderful. And then we just wanted to ask a couple of final closing questions. SC: Right, but it's going to go off, so I'll just ask that in a second. So I- we have two very sort of amorphous questions, maybe, but what do you value most in life? LB: My family, my wife, obviously. SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or creative or given you a sense of completion in life the most? LB: I guess I've always valued my extracurricular, if you will, community activities the most. When I started in the garment industry, I made a promise to myself that I was not going just to be involved in business and get lost. And I suppose the experience that I value that I enjoyed the most has been the presidency of Temple Beth El. It was a challenge in many different ways. And also the years I spent at, second, it would be the years I spent at St Luke's Hospital. SC: Thank you so much. LB: My pleasure. Interview with Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is July 25th, 2011, interview continuing with the Blochs. And would you state your full name and your birthdate? BEVERLEY BLOCH: I'm Beverley Bloch. Beverley Berg Bloch. And my birthdate is August 13th, 1935. SC: And would you then, let's go back in your family a little bit, and then we'll put you into context with your family. Where- What do you know about your parents? Give me their names, and also where they and perhaps their parents came from as far back as you know. BB: My father was, may he rest in peace, Joseph Berg. The name actually was Bergada, and he was from Pricin, Hungary, a small community in Hungary. And my mother was, may she rest in peace, Mildred Kleinberg. She was born in this country in a very small coal town called Oliphant, Pennsylvania. GAIL EISENBERG: Oh I've heard of Oliphant. Sorry, tell me again, what was your mother's name? BB: Mildred. SC: And that will be on the tape, too, but sometimes it's good to have it on the notes. Okay, do you know any more about their parents and grandparents? BB: Definitely. My mother was actually second generation, born in this country. Her mother was born in Oliphant, Pennsylvania. My mother's grandfather came with his cousins and probably brothers and sisters I did not know to Oliphant, and my great-great-grandfather built buildings. He had- he had a factory, I mean a foundry, and built buildings. Her mother- his mother- my mother's- GE: They "built buildings", did they build the bricks? BB: He built the bricks that made buildings. Excuse me. GE: Right. BB: Yes, that's exactly what he did. He made the bricks that build the buildings. So my grandmother, my mother's mother, was also born in Oliphant, Pennsylvania. When I was a child growing up, I had a kindergarten teacher, a private kindergarten teacher, Miss Flynn, who actually taught my grandmother and my mother in the Oliphant public schools. My mother's father had a grocery store. My dad was an immigrant boy whose family had come to Scranton, Pennsylvania. And he drove a cookie truck, a bakery truck. And my mother- GE: A delivery route. BB: A delivery route that went as far as Oliphant. And, excuse me. My mother and he fell in love. She would push putting his bakery products on the shelves of her father's store. They became engaged and opened their own little store on the main street of Oliphant before they actually were married. And then they opened the store. It was a mom and pop grocery store. In later years we lived over the store. SC: Was this in the '30s? BB: Yes, I was born 1935, and they were married for about four years. And we, my sister and I who was born two years and 9 months later, and we were actually raised with the store as the focal part of our existence. It was a Polish, Ukrainian, Irish community -- Welch, because the name Oliphant was taken from a Lord Oliphant, he named it for his Welch compatriots. We had a babysitter, a nanny, you would say today, and she wasn't really, the Polish girls would watch us while my mom and dad worked in the store until late in the evening. And that's the way we grew up. Do you want to know more about my background? GE: Your mom's family, they were in Oliphant, where were they from in Europe? BB: Poland. GE: From Poland. Did you know where in Poland? BB: No, I have no idea because my mother was already- because she was third generation never spoke about Poland. I did try to find my father's village when we were in Hungary. And it had moved from Hungary into the Ukraine and was put there by the Russians when they occupied Eastern Europe. GE: So today it's really part of the Ukraine? BB: Part of Ukraine, Pricin, P-R-I-C-I-N? P-R-I-C-I-N, Pricin. SC: And how many names do you know going back? Do you know any other names in your family? BB: No, I only know that I had, well, an uncle, who was in radio and television locally in Wilkes-Barre and Scranton. He changed the name to Berg, and then the rest of the family followed suit. SC: What was his first name? BB: Hal. Hal Berg. He had a wonderful children's show called The Land of Hatchy Milatchy. But he died tragically at the age of 54, so he did not fulfill a lot of- SC: Yeah, so your young life was up in- BB: Oliphant. SC: In the coal regions? BB: In the coal region. By the time I was 14, and I was the only Jewish kid in my class, I realized that I wanted to meet other Jewish kids. I realized that I would never get a good education. The education in Oliphant, Pennsylvania, the boys went into the mines, the girls went into then sewing plants. There were little sewing plants also in Oliphant. So I said to my parents that I would like very much to get a better education so there was a bus, buses that would start higher up in the coal regions -- Carbondale, Jessup -- and they would do what they call go "down the line" into Scranton. So when I was fourteen, I went, I registered to a Scranton school, Scranton Central High School, and I would take the bus every morning, approximately probably around 7:00. GE: Was that a problem? In other words, was that something that someone was just able to do? BB: No, not necessarily. My grandmother luckily, my father's mother, the family that migrated from New York when they came off the boats from Europe and went to Scranton. Most of them stayed in Scranton. My father was the only one that moved to Oliphant. So I was able to give my grandmother's address. I would not have been allowed to go to a school out of the district. GE: Right, I was wondering. BB: Fortunately, I think the administration looked the other way. I was a decent student, and they didn't question my graduating year. And in the course of time, the second year of school, when I had befriended a young woman who, also her father, had moved their family to Scranton. She moved to Allentown, so at fifteen she called me -- why she would remembered someone she had met for only one year -- called me and said, "I would like you to come to visit, you were so nice when I lived in Scranton." And I got on the bus, and I had a blind date with someone named Leonard Bloch. GE: Oh, my goodness. BB: We met at the Jewish Community Center at 6th and Chew Street, and the rest is history. SC: Wow. BB: We kept dating. SC: Long distance dating for a while? BB: Yeah, our wedding songbook said, "Martz Bus Made Money on Bev & ; Her Honey." And it was true. Martz Bus would carry me to Bethlehem, not to Allentown, and Lenny would meet me in Bethlehem, and we just continued dating. And having had the responsibilities he had as a very young boy made him very mature, and after his mother passed away, it was even more so. He was very close to his mother, and he was very lonely for . . .you know, so we married at 19. GE: How old was he when his mother passed away? BB: Seventeen. Eighteen, actually. GE: So you already had met her? BB: Yes. I did get to meet my mother-in-law. GE: That's a blessing. BB: Yes, that's when she was starting to be sick. SC: To go back to your parents when they started their store, and that was 1931? BB: Probably around then. SC: They started the store, that was a really brave time to start a business in 1931. I mean that was going down to rock bottom by '32 to use a cliché. GE: However, people still had to eat. SC: People had to eat so it was a good, it was a good decision, but also a lot of people had to sign a book rather than give money. BB: Everything my father sold at the store was on the books. SC: Everything. BB: Everything. The miners, who were his main source of income, they lived from one paycheck to the next, so- And my mother worked very hard with my father in the store. My sister and I were like original latchkey kids. We always came home to an empty apartment. GE: So given that you were- It was such a small number of Jewish children, and you were saying it was an Orthodox community in a much, in the school, whatever -- was it difficult? Were you tormented or in any way? BB: There was a certain amount of anti-Semitism. Basically speaking, no, I was not tormented. I can't speak for what the boys in the area may have felt. From a girl's point of view, I had many non-Jewish friends, mostly non-Jewish friends. If they would become angry at me, the first remark out of their mouth might be "You dirty Jew." It might be. Because they were being raised themselves in an environment that was totally anti-Semitic. But as I said, we did have a little synagogue that serviced the area. When I said "area", it was like Jessup, Blakely, Dixie City, these were all small towns where mostly, the merchants were Jews, they have little stores, the dry goods stores, the pharmacy was a Jewish man in our community, the grocery store. These were Jews, so, yes, they came together in Oliphant. The beauty of my childhood was the very fact that because we could not afford a rabbi full time if they did, a Malamud, a teacher, if they did not educate the girls as well as the boys, they wouldn't have been able to have them. So I therefore after school almost every day went to our little Talmud Torah, which was a little building next to the synagogue, and I loved to pray. I loved to chant. Today in my adulthood, I do a service once a month in a nursing home ; I did it here in Allentown. I- I became very adept. I love to chant. So I do thank my parents very much for the very fact that the community was as it was. I got a Hebrew -- not a speaking-- a prayer Hebrew education. GE: Right. Interesting. SC: Did you want to add on to that question at all? Or should we move on? GE: No, no, I thought you did a great job. SC: Yeah. So if we move forward to when you got married and also how you became involved in the business, even if you didn't go into the office every day. So if you can talk about how you got in, how you became involved in the business, and how you were involved, even though you didn't go into work every day? BB: I, actually, having been raised by a mother who was not home, I was truly averse to leaving my children. I almost made a vow that I would not marry anyone who would demand my participation in the business. But of course, Lenny and I discussed everything that he did, he would come home and we would talk. When he would have a jobber come to Allentown, of course it was up to me to be sure to entertain the jobber. I remember once we actually had a jobber with his wife who came to Allentown, and New Yorkers, I don't know if this is typical, but she said, "Do you have central air conditioning?" It happened to have been summer, and I said, "Yes," and I made a little offhanded joke, I said, "Yes, but the plumbing is outside." So I mean, that's the kind of thing we would do, and when we went into the construction of apartments, of course, I was also not physically involved but we would discuss everything. And at one point actually, I did help with the rentals for a time with one of the projects. But basically speaking, I was not physically involved in his business. SC: And as far as those years, do you have any memories, just anecdotes of the business, the things that just as you would talk, that you remember or jumped out at you? BB: Well, there was one really funny one. Every Christmas, Lenny would give, we would have a Christmas party, and we were not large enough or economically feasible enough to go and rent a hall, so we would have a party in the factory itself. Lenny would order cold cuts- my specialty was making Jell-O molds. And I remember taking -- I didn't have a car, I took a taxi with my Jell-o molds out to 6th street. And on the way, the molds started to melt. And this poor taxi driver, my mold melted all over his car, his cab. Well, that was one of the really highlights of my helping out with the Christmas party! I knew a lot of the girls that worked for him, and they would tell me different things about their home life, things like that. We were always invited every Christmas to his bookkeeper's home, for the most delicious kiffles that you ever want to taste. And that was another example of Lenny's flex time. She was a woman with small children, lived near the factory, Lenny took the bookkeeping books to her so that she did not have to leave her home. And that's how she worked for him, out of her home, and she appreciated that very much. GE: Right. BB: Other than that, just a sounding board, I tried to be a sounding board for whatever my husband had to talk about. SC: Do you have any thoughts about the business, as far as how Lenny managed it, and- and the way he treated his workers and you know, the years of how the business got along? BB: I admired and respected my husband tremendously. To be a person without a college education, which most of his friends, when we were twenty and had a child, his friends came to visit, and they were second-year college students. I mean, they looked at us and thought... And then I admired him tremendously for another reason. Our daughter is disabled, she was born disabled. And he became not only my help-mate, but I could not have actually gotten through the years that we had with hospitals and physical therapy, and everything that goes with raising a disabled child without having this wonderful help-mate, strong, courageous, was at my side for everything. And into our adult years, I mean our elderly years where we both have had major physical problems, we have been there for each other. So I'm- and I am very proud of him, very proud of all the accomplishments that he's had, and with all of the obstacles that were put in his path. SC: What have you done in the community? How have you been a part of the Jewish community but also the wider community? BB: All right, when I was twenty, I went back- excuse me, when my child was twenty, excuse me- when my daughter who went to college, once she was able to go to college, I felt free to pursue my own education, and I went to Cedar Crest. The reason I went back to college was when she was about eight or nine, I started working as a volunteer at the Crippled Childrens Society. And I felt a real sense of a vocation for me. I liked working with people ; I liked helping people. And having raised this child and not having the ability to have a social worker help us -- in 1958, there was no such thing as a social worker in the hospitals to send you home with a child who was going to profoundly need tremendous care. And your other children, when they would be involved in what had happened to the family -- there was no such thing. So I saw my bent in life, I would become a social worker. So, it took me ten years. In the interim, I was active with Hadassah ; I was on the board of Hadassah. I was on the Board of the Temple, and when Rance Block was president, I became the social secretary- I don't know what they called it. GE: Probably recording secretary for the Board? BB: No, I worked with programming. Programming. I don't know if it was the vice presidency. GE: Activities? BB: Activities Vice-President, yes. I was the Activities Vice-President under Rance. GE: And that's a big job. BB: I was going to college, maybe thirty credits at a time. Something like that. It took me ten years to get my degree. SC: That's great. Have you worked as a social worker? BB: Unfortunately, no, not as a- I did not have a paid position. When I was ready to graduate, one year before my graduation, Lenny had seven bypasses, heart bypasses. He was 49 years old. I think he realized then that he would have to find a way to take life a little easier. And we had had an apartment in Florida that we used just as an interim place because my mom lived in Florida, and we wanted to be able to touch base easily. We- he said he'd like to start going to Florida, at least for a month. And when I went looking for a job, and I did go looking for a job, and I told them I would have to be taking off a month, they- it wasn't- so I have done, in Florida I- I worked as a volunteer for a group called Listen to Children: Palm Beach Mental Health, where I worked one-on-one with children who had emotional disturbances. I did that, I'm now a Vice-President of Education for my chapter of Hadassah in Florida. So I have found ways to- and I- I do a service once a month at a nursing home for the residents. SC: And you live in Florida for seven months of the year? BB: Seven months of the year now. We did not originally, of course, but we gradually started to go to Florida for longer times as our children got older. SC: You mentioned that there was some anti-Semitism in . . . when you were a child. Did you experience that once you came to Allentown? BB: No. None whatsoever. But then again, we were heavily involved in the Jewish community. But well through Lenny's activities and mine somewhat, we did interact a lot with non-Jews. And never did I feel any anti-Semitism. SC: Did you, in those years, how did Allentown and the Jewish community and also in the wider community change? BB: Well, as Lenny mentioned, the demographics of the community changed tremendously. When we bought our first home on Marshall Street, it was the end of the city. That was the end of the city. And then, of course, we saw the city move so much further west. And in terms of people who live here, it changed from a community of perhaps the entrepreneurs to professional men, mostly, as Lenny mentioned, medical. And so we saw that. As the years went on, our involvement with other Jews became greater, of course, when we were young marrieds, the small Jewish community then would have nothing to do with us because they knew our age and they weren't going to be friends with people who were 19 years of age since they were already in their mid-twenties. GE: Did you really find that? BB: Yes. But then as the years went on and we had children, right away, we became more integrated and neutralized the situation. Yes, yes. SC: Because your children and the other children and the other parents were all- BB: At the same age. SC: And so has the Jewish community changed over the years in other ways, any other ways? BB: I think Beth El, from- which really is the only community I can speak of, has become more vibrantly Jewish, which is really lovely to see. When we go to services now on a Shabbat morning, and we have- participation is just marvelous. In the early years, that when I was here with Rabbi Greenburg, let him rest in peace- in peace -- in fact he bar-mitzvahed my son as well as my husband -- it was a more formal Jewish experience. For example, Friday nights, Lenny and I would leave our children, rush to get out of the house after Sabbath dinner, so we could go to services. No one would do that today. You would bring your small children to services with you. Rabbi Greenburg, let him rest in peace, was of the old school, children could be a disturbance to the service, not an adding of beauty to the service. And I'm- I was sorry for that later on that my children did not get that kind of an experience, but I find the Jewish community today to be much more vibrant, and I love seeing all the little children. For instance, this Friday night, this last Friday night, we had congregational dinner, and we had babies, babies at the dinner. It was marvelous. GE: We were there Saturday? BB: Yeah, yeah. SC: Along with all of that, have you belonged to any social organizations outside the Jewish community? BB: I was the vice-president of the Parent-Teacher Association's at Trexler Junior High School. As I said, I worked for the Crippled Childrens Society, I volunteered for five or six years. I think that's about, about it, yeah. SC: And with the community, has the community been more- has it dispersed more a little bit in some ways, or has it been pulling together? Because in so many communities, whether it's ethnic or religious, everything is just sort of dispersed, and there isn't a core anymore. BB: Well, I'm looking at the community, remember, from the outside-in. I'm seven months away from this community. SC: That's true. So you probably have a more objective viewpoint than some people. BB: Well, I think from what I read in Hakol, from what I just see, Federation seems to be, Jewish Federation seems to be the nucleus of what really brings the entire Jewish community together. From what I can see, there is a tremendous vibrancy within that group. Young women especially being very involved -- young men and women -- being very involved. SC: And is this the next generation or are these- Are the people that are involved now the people that have come in from other areas? Have you lost people that are, perhaps your children or your friends' children, to go work in other places and live other places? BB: Well, our children do not, unfortunately, live [here]. Our oldest son lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with his wife. I don't think he's- he does belong to a Chabad, but interestingly enough, he is married to a Baptist. SC: It's the new generation. BB: A new generation, yes. Our daughter lives in Rockville, Maryland. She still works. She's working for- as a reading specialist, as Lenny mentioned. Her first marriage ended in divorce. Her second marriage is to a also physically challenged man, and he's not of the Jewish faith. But she did BarMitzvah the child that they have, who was adopted. Our grandson was BarMitzvahed, so she belonged to a conservative temple. Our youngest guy and his wife live in Philadelphia. They are very active in the Jewish community. My daughter-in-law is on the Board of Federation, she's very active in Jewish Family Service. Our son was on the Board of the New Jewish Museum so they are very active and they have two youngsters. One going off to my son's alma mater, his daughter is going off this fall to his alma mater, University of Michigan. GE: He'll be able to see your older brother, or their older uncle. BB: Yeah, they're- she's thrilled that she'll be coming to Michigan. GE: I think the only thing is to ask the last couple of questions. LEONARD BLOCH: [inaudible] BB: Pardon, honey? LB: [inaudible] BB: Well that's within Federation, Jewish Family Service. LB: No [inaudible]. The Bridge. BB: The Bridge. My daughter in law and several of her friends started a new organization called the Bridge, where they specify x amount of dollars that are given only to people who unfortunately have had things happen to them that has thrown them perhaps into temporary welfare, whatever. The money they give is the bridge, the bridge that puts them back into being able to have independent lives again. GE: That's wonderful. SC: So, what do you value in life most? BB: My family. My family, my culture, my Judaism, very much my Judaism. The years when we were raising our daughter, without my faith, I don't think I would have gotten through easily. And Israel. We value Israel, we worry about Israel, and we worry, I think, about Judaism in general, and, you know, where is- where is our country going, in general. SC: Have any of your children or grandchildren been able to go to Israel? BB: Yes. SC: Because this is something that our students are really- so much opportunity, it's wonderful. BB: Yes, our oldest was in Israel when he was in his early-in college- oh no, he went before that, didn't he? LB: Early 20s. BB: Early 20s for sure he was in Israel. Our daughter -- and she is disabled, she walks with crutches and with the braces -- and she went to Israel with a youth-- We did elocution, that's what they called it. You had to give a little speech or something. SC: So you were talking about your daughter going to Israel? BB: Yes, Lenny reminded me, our daughter Carol went to Israel as a teenager. She has not since been back, as far as we know she has not been back. Our son Wayne, our youngest child, went to high school in Israel and then- GE: Was that one year? BB: One year, one summer, actually. Just one summer, and that was a marvelous experience for him. He has since been back, he brought- took his family there, just a few years ago. Lenny and I support in Israel, in Jerusalem, Alyn. Not many people know about Alyn. Alyn is the hospital for disabled, the only hospital in Israel for disabled youngsters. And we were on our first Federation trip, when we were married 20 years, we were taken to Alyn. And Alyn is one of our favorite charities. And our son went there with his family. And then our grandson did a project, he's 16, for his Bar Mitzvah, with disabled youngsters in the United States. SC: What makes you feel the most creative? BB: Creative? That's a very difficult question. Creative. I like to make mandel bread for my family, that's my specialty, making mandel bread. GE: That's like a- like biscotti? BB: Biscotti, it's a Jewish biscotti, and whenever I have to take something to a friend- GE: I'll have to give you a call to get the recipe. BB: Mine is a basic simple recipe, and everybody seems to love it. So that makes me feel very good to be able to do something like that. Creativity, I am not a musician of any sort. My chanting, my chanting makes me feel very creative. SC: Yes, metaphoric sense of creativity. LB: I was going to say, I've been at Bev's service already at the nursing home, and the looks on the faces of the residents of love when they say "here comes the Cantor". GE: Oh, yeah. BB: I enjoy doing that very much. That makes me feel very creative. LB: They really love her. SC: That's wonderful. I can understand why. I can see that. Well, thank you very much. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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01:59:56
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Leonard and Beverley Bloch, July 25, 2011
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Leonard Bloch talks about his father’s reluctant start in the needle-trade business. A few years after Lenny’s father started the business, Lenny’s mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. As a result, rather than go to college, Lenny joined the business after he graduated from high school and quickly discovered he both enjoyed and had an affinity for managing the business.
Beverly Bloch talks about the challenge of growing up in Oliphant, PA in a home where her mom worked long hours in their “mom and pop” grocery store. Growing up without her own mother at home, Beverly was determined to be a stay-at-home mother to her children.
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LVTNT-31
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2011-07-25
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
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Nathan Braunstein
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5.4 December 12, 2015 Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015 LVTNT-30 1:20:23 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Nathan Braunstein Marilyn Braunstein Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 BraunsteinNathan_Marilyn_20151212 1.0:|19(3)|30(4)|41(9)|52(16)|67(2)|80(12)|95(13)|110(2)|123(16)|144(2)|169(6)|190(16)|207(3)|232(2)|253(12)|274(7)|291(3)|310(7)|327(13)|350(10)|367(8)|394(2)|419(14)|440(4)|461(12)|484(12)|505(11)|524(7)|545(7)|562(3)|581(12)|596(11)|617(8)|630(12)|643(3)|650(15)|661(14)|676(7)|693(3)|704(3)|723(4)|738(2)|757(8)|772(9)|789(7)|804(14)|819(9)|834(10)|849(3)|864(8)|879(9)|894(7)|911(2)|922(12)|937(6)|952(5)|967(9)|984(2)|997(12)|1016(6)|1029(2)|1040(13)|1059(8)|1074(8)|1087(12)|1100(10)|1115(3)|1128(6)|1141(4)|1162(4)|1179(8)|1198(6)|1213(17)|1230(12)|1245(12)|1256(14)|1271(8)|1282(9)|1303(5)|1320(19)|1321(14) 0 https://youtu.be/FqQAn_lR6uc YouTube video 0 Introduction—Nathan Braunstein SC: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born?
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 ; NB: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. 0 24 Nathan's Family History SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know — where they were from, who they were, what they did?
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 ; NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. 0 399 Nathan's Education SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life?
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 ; NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools 0 494 Moving to Allentown, PA SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown?
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 ; NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother — you know, my mother and his family. 0 540 Early Experiences in the Apparel Industry SC: Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over.
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 ; NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father — I worked in the office, which was...
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 ; SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn’t work before [the business] — any casual jobs or anything?
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 ; NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit.
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 ; SC: At your high school or at Lafayette?
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 ; NB: When I went to Lafayette. 0 678 1951: First Business Fails GE: You're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business?
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 ; NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that.
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 ; GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that?
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 ; NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field.
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 ; GE: And did you know you were going to be — given you were working already in the apparels — did you know you were going to be in the apparel business?
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 ; NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. 0 847 Nathan's Brother—Creating a Family Business NB: In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that — he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside — and we started to build a business. 
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 ; GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really-
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 ; NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. 
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 ; GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need.
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 ; NB: And that was enough.
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 ; GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory.
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 ; NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well.
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 ; GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that-
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 ; NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. 0 956 Building the Business—'Kickbacking' GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression?
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 ; NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. 0 1115 Fashion in the '50-80s: Women's Shirtwaists, Men's Slacks GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this — you know, especially in the 50s — just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that.
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 ; NB: I don’t know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company — you remember the Villager?
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 ; GE: I do. 
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 ; NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men’s slacks — [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men’s slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. 0 1307 Product, Label, & ; Clients GE: So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? 
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 ; NB: Right.
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 ; GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately.
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 ; NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or… 
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 ; GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. 
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 ; NB: Whoever we made it for. 
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 ; GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct?
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 ; NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... 0 1361 Decline of the Business GE: And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? 
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 ; NB: The 90s, the late 90s.
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 ; GE: Oh that was already that late?
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 ; NB: ‘91, ‘92.
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 ; GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the ‘90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? 
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 ; NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell — it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea.
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 ; GE: When did you finally sell? 
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 ; NB: ‘93. 0 1434 Nathan's Clients (cont'd) GE: Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn’t get it on tape.
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 ; NB: David Crystal. I don’t even remember the names anymore.
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 ; GE: Evan Picone.
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 ; SC: John Meyer of Norwich. 0 1505 Employees GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak?
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 ; NB: At the height, 200. 
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 ; GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of?
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 ; NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn’t need as many operators.
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 ; GE: Because the machinery…?
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 ; NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery — to make billions, but to no avail. 0 1657 Niche Success of the Belt Business GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things — how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? 
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 ; NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right.
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 ; GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. 0 1760 Producing for the Manufacturers Versus Retailers GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you?
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 ; NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners — what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that’s all. It’s just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we’d have to start from scratch all over again.
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 ; GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers — it's constantly a new market. 0 1934 Nathan's Involvement in the Jewish Community—Hadassah & ; the UJA GE: So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? ‘Cause that was another big part of your life. 
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 ; NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. 
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 ; GE: That’d be great.
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 ; NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. 0 2557 Introduction—Marilyn Braunstein SC: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born?
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 ; MB: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 — 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. 0 2619 Marilyn's Family History SC: Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters — your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born?
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 ; MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I’m not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. 0 3163 The '40s: Anti-Semitism at Muhlenberg Elementary School SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life — what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate.
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 ; MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen — there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school — Muhlenberg, which is still in existence — and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. 0 3350 Meeting Nathan Braunstein at Allentown High School MB: Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don’t quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don’t remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. 0 3524 1950s: Married Life at Tremont Apartments MB: Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples — and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. 0 3611 Marilyn Braunstein's Service to Hadassah MB: I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends — we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to — and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. 0 4245 The Women of Hadassah MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. 
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 ; SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? 
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 ; MB: This is Mrs. Leonard.
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 ; GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. 
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 ; SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that’s fine. 
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 ; GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey. 0 4597 Marilyn's Values and Inspirations SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? 
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 ; MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn’t really [Hadassah] — that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us.
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 ; NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. 0 4694 Nathan Braunstein's Opinion on Changes in Hadassah NB: Can I interject something?
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 ; SC: Sure.
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 ; NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. 0 MovingImage Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.
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 ; Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.
 ; Interview with Nathen Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Okay, would you- Ready? Would you start by telling your full name, where you were born, and when you were born? NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: My name is Nathan Braunstein. I was born in Linden, New Jersey, on August 21st, 1927. SC: And can you tell me about your family, as far back as you know -- where they were from, who they were, what they did? NB: My mother came to the United States from Warsaw, Poland. And my father came from a small shtetl called Bludova [?] in Poland also. And they met in the United States. The beginning of my mother's story is a little different than my father's story. My mother was married at the age about I would say could have been 15 or 16 to a man that lived in her shtetl. And when the- after they were married, she had a son by the name of Harry. And this man, I'll call Mr. Retarsky, [?] decided to go to the United States and then call for my mother and his son later. When he got to the United States, the First World War broke out, which deterred him from bringing my mother to join him. So in the ensuing years, what happened [is] he made a life for himself. He called for my mother sometime, I guess, around 1920, to bring her to the United States. Once she arrived here, shortly after he asked her for a divorce. Now, let's get to my father. My father must have been a rebel. His parents wanted him to be a rabbi. He ran away from home. He stowed away on a ship to the United States, and then they shipped him back when they found him. Whatever happened in Poland then is very sketchy to me -- the only thing I can remember now is that he came to the United States, he had his own life, he had a marriage, and when he met my- and I'm skipping around-- and he got involved in the apparel industry in Manhattan. And my mother, in the meantime, when she got here, was destitute and she knew how to sew. So she got a job in factories where she would sew garments and supported her son that way. And through the years -- and we're talking about a certain amount of years because I wasn't born until 1927 -- she must have been working at different factories, and my father was working at different factories, and my mother ended up working in the factory where my father was the manager. And he had lost his wife and he had four children, and I think my mother was prime to be -- wanted to be -- married, too. So they got together. SC: What was your father's name? NB: My father's name was Isadore, and my mother's name was Bertha. SC: So it was Isadore Braunstein. And your mother's maiden name? NB: Dornblott. Bertha Dornblott. But she had the name Bertha Retarsky, too. SC: Do you know your father's parents names and your mother's parents names at all? NB: No. I did have a grandfather. My father's father was living in the United States for a while ; but my father made him go back because he didn't want his mother to be alone. And so when I was a baby, I must have known them, but it's just a dream. SC: So could you talk a little bit about your schooling, you know, when you grew up, go through your life? NB: My schooling was...a maze of schools. The reason for that is when you were- when you managed apparel factories in those years, the owners would want to have someone get their factories running straight and good, and then they would no longer want the expense of having a manager. So we moved around a lot in my life. I must have gone to four or five different elementary schools in my life, and junior high schools. But I got the basic education. And as far as higher education, I went to Lafayette for two years in Easton. And I thought I could do better without the education. And I was in love, so I left that education. SC: So do you remember when you came to Allentown, when your family came to Allentown? NB: Certainly. I was 17 when I came to Allentown. My father had died a couple of months before, and my brother from my mother's side was working here for his father, who owned the factory. And my brother was kind enough to have us live with him and his mother -- you know, my mother and his family. SC: So could you talk a little bit about after that? Did you work any place before you got into the business and then I'll pass it over. NB: Well, I did some work for my brother's father -- I worked in the office, which was... SC: Yeah, that was it. You weren't a paper boy or anything like that? You didn't work before [the business] -- any casual jobs or anything? NB: I did some odd jobs. I worked at the school a little bit. SC: At your high school or at Lafayette? NB: When I went to Lafayette. SC: It's just sort of interesting to see how people maneuver through work to get to become a business owner, that's why I ask that. NB: Well from that I learned about the problems of the apparel business, when I was astute enough to pick up what was needed in the Valley, what I thought was needed, that I could do as a business. I had wanted to become a lawyer, but I gave that up. GAIL EISENBERG: And so, if you want to share with us a little bit: So you were working in the office. I'm just curious, what kinds of jobs or duties were you doing in the office? NB: Payroll. GE: Oh, you were doing the payroll. NB: Payroll was a big thing because everyone was on piece rate, and it was a difficult way-- GE: Yes, it was complicated. Yes. Okay. NB: And no computers. GE: Right. And so... you're saying you did not want to stay there as an employee, you wanted to go out on your own and start your own type of business? NB: Well, I knew that I was going to be in business. I always knew that. GE: And I'm just curious, what made you decide that? What reasons? What do you think contributed to that? NB: Well I gave up education. I felt I was good enough to make my mark in the manufacturing field. GE: And did you know you were going to be -- given you were working already in the apparels -- did you know you were going to be in the apparel business? NB: Well there was a need. Most of the people that made dresses and sportswear would have to send extra material to New York to have belts made for the garments. So I felt there was a need for someone to do that [locally] in Pennsylvania and the Northeast. There was only one other company that was in Wilkes-Barre. GE: So you recognized the need and and therefore you felt that was something that you would be able to fulfill and to satisfy and do well. NB: So I started- how did that work again? GE: About what year is that? Let's say when you started, about what year? NB: Pardon me? GE: About what year? What was the timeframe? NB: About 1951. GE: Okay, so quite early. You were just married. NB: That's right. GE: Right. Okay, and tell us a little bit about how you got started. NB: I got started this way: My father-in-law, we had a little conversation, and he offered to give me five-thousand dollars to go into business -- which in those days was a lot of money. But I didn't do well in that business. I lost it. GE: And that was trying to still do the belts? NB: Still belts. I lost it, so I had to get a job. I went to- I got myself to Wilkes-Barre, and I told them that I could bring in customers to their belt company. And I started to work for them, I worked for them for a year. In the meantime, my brother on my father's side also went out on his own and he closed that factory. So we got together, and we started another belt company. And from that -- he worked on the inside and I worked on the outside -- and we started to build a business. GE: So do you feel that between what happened, where your business went under, and then spending the year working at the belt company, then you started to really- NB: Which gave me more pointers about belts and things. GE: Right, about what would succeed, about what you would need. NB: And that was enough. GE: How about your brother? Did he have- I mean, he had general, you know, inside experience from the factory. NB: My brother was a garment cutter. That was his trade. He cut the fabric to make garments, I got that he got the fabric to make garments, but then he had a little sewing factory, which also didn't do well. GE: And with the belts, what he would need to do on the inside, he had all that- NB: He liked my idea about the belts, and we started up. Very small. GE: How many customers did you have the first couple of years? NB: Well, we had two or three customers. Kept building on it. GE: And so, want to tell us a little bit about that progression? NB: Well he and I did everything in the factory except sew, so we got a few girls that stuck with us throughout my career, actually. Got a few girls, and they came and sewed for us, and we put the belts together and gradually grew. What's the strange thing is: all the people that I thought that we would get business from locally was very difficult to get the business from them because the manufacturers in New York controlled [them], and they wanted the belts to come to New York rather than have someone making them in Pennsylvania, even though they could save money. And I had to break through that. I did that with a lot of badgering, nagging, and making a pest of myself. I was likeable. GE: Yeah, I believe that. NB: So, you know, there were times when I would talk to New York manufacturers where we say, "We give you the business, but you have to pay off." I says, "What's pay off?" He says, "I don't give my trimming manager a big salary, so if you want to make belts for me, you have to give him five percent." Hey, that's business. SC: Is that called a shakedown? NB: No, that's a kickback. I learned that very well. GE: And is that what needed to happen? NB: You don't know how many houses I built -- through kickbacks! I mean, well, where the trimming man would say to me, you know, "I need storm windows in my house" -- we would do it. If the account was big enough, we would do it. It's happening in Allentown now. That's called kickback. GE: And you want to tell us, share with us a little bit why at this time in this -- you know, especially in the 50s -- just tell us a little bit about the kinds of clothes that the women were wearing and the shirtwaists, dresses, and the belts, because many of us don't necessarily remember that. NB: I don't know how to explain that. The shirtwaists was a bonanza, started by the Villager Company -- you remember the Villager? GE: I do. NB: And everybody made shirtwaists, and shirtwaists was a bonanza for belt manufacturers. And that's what started to grow my business. Really grew it. And then what made it even bigger is men's slacks -- [men] would put belts on their slacks. Men's slacks manufacturers would be putting their own belts on slacks. So I learned to cover the men's market, too. GE: And at least in the beginning, the product- you want to just describe the product? I think you said it was the belt with the material, right? Was the material over the belt? NB: The material over the belt or you would have a webbing with leather tabs. GE: Okay, I'm trying to remember what that was like. And the shirtwaist dresses, they lasted in fashion until about what time period? I think, what, through the mid-60s? NB: Well it was-- through the 80s. GE: Really? That was the shirtwaist dress? NB: Well, the late 70s. MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: With the sweater to match. NB: Oh yeah, that sweater dress. GE: Sweater dress. Okay. And then the men's pants, they also had similar [design]. And then I remember you telling us- tell us about some of the other types of belts that you then started [producing]. NB: Well that one, when I saturated that, there was only one other way to go: that was a retail market. Which had- which encompassed new machinery, because we were making finer belts and growing that. So it was a great adventure, actually, because-- it was exciting. GE: And quite a challenge. NB: Always a challenge. GE: Right. So just so I understand, when you were doing it more, where you were selling it to the manufacturer, in a sense it was just part of the garment, right? NB: Right. GE: Where the second time, when it's the retail, that's where you were selling it where it's an accessory that somebody bought separately. NB: Well I never used our name.It was the store name or-- GE: Or the brand name. Well especially the first time. NB: Whoever we made it for. GE: When you did retail, that was probably the store name, correct? NB: Yeah. We made a lot of belts for the Limited. For the Limited Express, for... GE: Okay. So let's see: you were in business. Tell us about -- you and your brother started, this was around 1951. And when did you see things begin to get more challenging because of, you know, the competitors going overseas? NB: The 90s, the late 90s. GE: Oh that was already that late? NB: '91, '92. GE: So it really thrived, then, through the 80s. And it was really not until the '90s that you were really being challenged. Okay, and then a little bit [of] what happened? What happened and how fast did things start going down? NB: Pretty fast. Pretty fast. In fact, when I got the idea that I should sell -- it took me two years to really make up my mind. I should have sold when I got the idea. GE: When did you finally sell? NB: '93. GE: Okay. So once it began in the '90s, it really got hurt. Nate, want to share with us some of the different manufacturers, different brands that you produced- that you manufactured for? You just said a few, but we didn't get it on tape. NB: David Crystal. I don't even remember the names anymore. GE: Evan Picone. SC: John Meyer of Norwich. NB: Well you're just repeating what I said. GE: But we didn't have it on the tape. NB: Oh, I see. GE: Once the company -- once a manufacturer -- let you break in, let you start making their belts, then did they stay with you? NB: They stayed with me. College Town -- did you ever hear of College Town? Slacks, sportswear, Panther. I used to get orders like two hundred thousand at a time. GE: How many people did you have working at the factory at its peak? NB: At the height, 200. GE: Wow. And was it mostly the operators or like- what did the work workforce consist of? NB: Well, at the beginning it was a lot of operators ; but then I didn't need as many operators. GE: Because the machinery--? NB: In order to fight what was going on in the Middle East- [I mean] in Asia, I must have spent close to a million dollars just in automatic machinery -- to make billions, but to no avail. I took a trip to Taiwan, and saw how they worked, and I knew I really had to get out because those girls were working- my girls, with their fringes, at that time were making twelve dollars an hour, and these girls were making not even twelve dollars a week. GE: So even as you were having fewer and fewer employees, it's still you could not- the labor cost was so [expensive]. NB: And you couldn't match it for another reason too: since the manufacturer was doing everything there, the Chinese were doing everything there for them -- with belts, too! GE: So even the shipping, you would have shipping and transportation costs. NB: It was a lost cause. They needed us -- our manufacturers needed us because they wanted to have somebody to make samples for them. But we were just being used for a while, 'til we realized, you know, they would throw business our way, but not the 200,000 quantity orders anymore. So, it was sad. I love that business. It was so... to me, it was like watching something grow that I built and then have it torn down. GE: At its peak, when you were making- when you were getting orders of the 200,000 things -- how many other belt producers were there in the area? Were you still the only one? NB: Only one. Because it's a specialty thing. That's why I wanted to do something different. I didn't want to make a dress like everybody else was making it. Right. Right, right. GE: You really carved out your own niche, your own specialization. NB: And I even grew bigger than the guy in Wilkes-Barre -- and they were mafia connected. GE: Did they ever give you any trouble, that when you left them and you started...? NB: [No.] GE: Okay, that's good. I remember you telling us last time about some of the challenges, the unique challenges it was, going from being where you're making for manufacturers versus now. What were the new things you had to learn and had to excel at and had to begin to do when you started going to retail? You know, how is that a new challenge? [phone interrupts interview] GE: Nate, you had started out working with manufacturing ; then, when you had to, also introduced [your belts] into the retailers. What were some of the new challenges for you? NB: New challenges were when you dealt with retailers, you didn't deal with owners -- what you dealt [with] was buyers. And if you learn about kickbacks, that's kickbacks! Well I learned how to deal with buyers, that's all. It's just simple. And every time a new buyer came in, we'd have to start from scratch all over again. GE: And I assume buyer's turnover. In other words, the owner stays, but the buyers -- it's constantly a new market. NB: My trick was, when I dealt with manufacturers, I had to deal with trimming and purchases. Well I would get into their heads, I would become friendly, they would become my family. When I came to town, and I'd listen to all their troubles, and they were my friends. So I kept a customer that I liked, but I also kept up my quality and everything. GE: So it was very much quality, right price, and relationship. And it sounds like the relationship was also very important. NB: It is. In today's world, relationships are not that great because people do business with email. Now how do you get to know somebody with an email? You don't. It's tough for people. GE: And they're also just- the businesses seem to be very, very different today when we don't have the same manufacturing that we used to have. You mentioned something that you didn't mention before -- that you were in real estate. Was that after the [business]? Did you say something about building homes or not? SC: No, that was the kickbacks. That was just a metaphor. GE: Okay. I think in terms of the business, that was a pretty good- you know, you gave us a pretty good [description]. I think we got most of the information. So do you want to share with us a little bit about your community involvement? 'Cause that was another big part of your life. NB: Well, we'll go back to Hadassah. GE: That'd be great. NB: Hadassah was my building stone, for getting above. What I feel that I could do for the Jews, myself. On Marilyn's second trip to Israel -- it was a three week trip, three weeks on a bus with Jewish women! And I became the mechanic to fix all the cameras and help them. And became friendly . . . it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. But I also found out what we as Jews owe to other Jews, especially with the loss of six million. And I became very serious about that whole thing. And I felt that if there were 10 million Jews in the United States -- or in the world, in the world at that time -- we owed for six million lost souls, and we have a responsibility. And people used to cross the street when they saw me because I was-- And anyway, I started out in working for the UJA office here as a volunteer after that trip. But I was always a little bit involved before we went with Hadassah. Whatever I did was very minimal, but what really helped also was the fact that my business was doing better, and I could be more philanthropic. Not that people that have good businesses are philanthropic, but it was just me that felt that way because of Marilyn's tutelage. And I worked on the campaign, I solicited people. And that became like a challenge for me too, like the belt business. It was- I've got to be the best, I've got to be the best at it. So in a short period of time, I became a regional chairman for UJA. And then I was asked to go on the national board, and that was such a fantastic feeling because there were probably... it must have been 14 or 15 of us that all thought the same way about the Jewish cause. And I stayed on it until the '80s. When my business was going, I couldn't maintain the gifts I was making. It's still a part of my life that was just a magnificent feeling, magnificent. There is -- and I'm not being melodramatic saying [this] -- that giving is such a high. Helping someone else is such a high. It's one of the highest things. It's better than getting. GE: In many ways, I think much better than getting. I remember last time, if you want to share with us a little bit: the influence of your father-in-law and uncle in regards to all this. NB: What story should I end it on? Your Uncle Bernie? Uncle Bernie was my father-in-law's brother. MB: Who was seven years younger. NB: He was really the philanthropic leader of the UJA. And when I started to get involved, he came and gave me a lecture and he said, "Now look, Nate, I don't want you to embarrass me." MB: What about the [inaudible]? NB: You want me to tell the story? We bought a second home. And Bernie and naturally my father-in-law, Victor, they all came to see the house, and pass judgment on it, and all that stuff. And I was the first one in the family that had a second home. So it caused a lot of rift. "How did Nate do this?" Blah blah blah and all that stuff. And one day, during the fall, I get a call from Uncle Bernie to come down to their office. I come down, and he sits me down, he says, "You know, the first thing you have to do is take care of Jews. And what you did, you went out and bought a second home before you're doing anything for the Jewish people." And he starts lecturing me, and I said, "You're out of line. You have no right to talk to me this way. Absolutely not. First of all, my father-in-law was sitting over there. If he wants to say something about what I do with my money, he can. But you can't. I'm not going to listen to what you're saying." And I said, "I will do for Jews my way and you won't be embarrassed." GE: And you always maintained a very nice relationship. NB: What? GE: He was satisfied. You and Bernie and of course your father-in-law, you always maintained a very good relationship. NB: Of course. In fact, he was very proud -- and also worried. He'd given away everything. But he's very proud. When he was old and sick, he came to live with us. First of all, Marilyn was his shining star. I can still hear him calling Marilyn, right now in my mind -- when he needed help. MB: Did you say anything about my brother? NB: No. MB: My brother died when he was 70, so. GE: When he was 70, when he was- when your brother was 70? MB: Yeah. GE: He died the day after my father-in-law. MB: Yeah. We had two caskets in the sanctuary. And a lot of people didn't know about my brother. They were coming to see my father. SC: I think Nate answered both of those questions, so that's fine. Thank you. Interview with Marilyn Braunstein, December 12th, 2015 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is December 12, 2015, the interview with Marilyn Braunstein. And I'm going to start with your background. Can you tell me as much about- first of all, your full name and your date of birth and where you were born? MARILYN BRAUNSTEIN: Okay. My name is Marilyn Kobrovsky Braunstein. I am a native Allentownian. I was born here at Sacred Heart Hospital in 1930, which makes me 85 -- 85 happy years. I'm very happy to be part of this interview that you're doing. I'm supposed to talk about my life? SC: Yes. Can you go back just a little bit and talk about your parents, your brothers and sisters -- your parents and grandparents, what their names were and where they were born? MB: My paternal grandparents name is Lazar and Lena Kobrovsky. They were born in Russia, Poland- I don't remember. I don't remember the town, but my Grandfather Lazer came to the United States by himself and left my grandmother and my father and his sister in Poland. And he came by himself. He came to Allentown because he had a landsman [Yiddish-- someone from the same town back in Poland/Russia] here. I guess that's how everybody kind of arrived here. And his landmans was Edward Schneider, who was in the . . . I guess in the junk business or peddling or something. And he lived in his house until 1902 or 3, I'm not sure. Until he brought my grandmother and my father over to this country and then they were out on their own. They had their own little house on Grant Street, which is in the sixth ward of the community. My father was just five or six, so he started school and he never really- he never spoke with an accent because he went to school as a young child. But when he was old enough to go to work, he and my grandfather went out on their horse and buggy to pick up scrap wherever -- you know, they went into the country, into Lehighton and Palmerton and all those little towns around here. And that's how he made a living until he bought a building and became much more involved in the business. The business grew, and he had all the Syrian neighbors -- they were all Christian Syrians -- and they also were what we called junkmen. And they used to bring all their stuff to my grandfather. And there were three brothers in the family. My father was Victor, and Bernie, and Sam. And then there were seven girls, so there were nine siblings all together. So what fun it was to go to my grandmother's house every Sunday and be with this family. My grandmother made her tuna fish -- tuna fish! I don't know how this Russian-Polish lady learned to make tuna fish salad but that's what she made. And my aunts, you want all my aunts names? I don't wanna do it. But there were seven, seven and three -- no, six and three. Nine, nine children. Okay, that was my paternal [family]. My maternal grandparents were Chaim and Sarah Greenberg. My grandmother's maiden name was Epstein. And they were born in Poland, too. I don't know how they got to London- I mean England, or why they went to England. They met in England. They got married and they had five children in England, my mother being the youngest at that time. She was a few months old. They came to this country, then, in 1902. My grandfather was a schneider [Yiddish for tailor], he was a tailor. So he- they came to Allentown because my grandmother's sister -- sister's husband was the rabbi in Allentown. So that's why they came to Allentown. There are ten siblings in my mother's family. My mother is Anna, my grandmother was Sarah -- I told you that -- and my grandfather was Chaim. And he had a tailor shop in the front of the house where they lived on Second Street between Turner and Linden. In there. And the front of the house, the living room, was his shop. And that's what he did. He was a tailor. And they lived, I don't know for how many years they lived there, but I know my mother worked -- went to work, I think she was a teenager. I don't remember exactly how it all occurred, but she worked at the Grammes Company. I don't know if it's still in business in Allentown. She worked an addressograph. Anyway, my father and mother were married in 1924, by Rabbi Krevsky, who was the rabbi in Allentown. It used to be called the Sixth Street Shul, [Yiddish for synagogue] because that's where the synagogue was for the congregation, the Sons of Israel, which is now on Twenty-seventh and Tilghman. My grandfather, my father's father, was very involved with Agudas Achim, which was Orthodox synagogue, and he would live within walking distance of the shul. So he was there every day and that was where he belonged to. My other grandfather belonged to a shul five doors away, called-- It will come to me. But anyway, they used to call it the Bolsheviki-y shul. My grandfather must have been a Bolsheviki, I don't know. Everyone looked down on that shul. So we used to go from one shul to the other, and everybody used to hang out in front of the shul. And there was always arguments for who was going to-- What is it at the end, where they- where you buy the right to--? I forget. So there was always a fight: Who was going to buy the right to say, I don't remember which it was. Anyway, sometimes cops had to come to break it up, it got so violent. They don't do those things anymore. They were a real bunch. And on that street was also two Kosher butchers and a Kosher store to buy fish and things. So it was a little community service there, for the Jewish community. It was a very nice, pleasant place to be. Yeah. And anyway, that's it. SC: Can you talk a little bit about where you were born and, you know, your- well you talked about your birthday, but your early life -- what you remember, where you went to school, and how eventually how you met Nate. MB: For some reason, all the Jews in Allentown lived on South 16th Street. That was where everybody moved. My father, being different, moved us to 22nd in Allen -- there were no Jews. None. Okay, so I went to this elementary school -- Muhlenberg, which is still in existence -- and there were maybe five Jewish kids in the school. They were not so wonderful to me. They didn't include me in things. And I never thought of it, anything of it. Just like when they picked guards for crossing the street, everybody got the job except me. It was kind of- that was my first experience with anti-Semitism. Anyway, I didn't have really any Jewish friends until junior high school. I did go to the Jewish Community Center -- Daycare Center. I loved it, loved it, because my people were there and I felt included. That was- that's a nice camp and it still exists. It was wonderful. And I spent a lot of time at the JCC every Sunday where everybody used to come in and take a trolley downtown. And we had a jukebox there and we all danced. We danced the jitterbug, I guess that's what that was in the 1940s. So that was- it was a lot of fun. And we formed the Young Judaea Club for the girls. So we used to come down one night a week and meet Young Judea and we picked a certain night because the Boy Scouts met that night, so we had everything figured out. Anyway, those were my junior high school years. Then we went to Allen High, which was a fantastic school in those days. Everybody who was living outside the city limits wanted to go to Allentown High. Through the years, the school deteriorated to not such a great place, but in those years it was wonderful. Morty Sher was one of our teachers. He was very involved with the Jewish community and the Center. He was a- was he an English teacher? I don't quite remember. I met Nate when I was a senior in high school. He had just- or was I a junior? I don't remember. He was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He came to Allentown when he was a senior, and he came here because when living in New Bedford, his father suddenly passed away. So he and his mother came to Allentown because Nate had a brother living here who had a business. He made dresses like many people did here. So anyway, I met Nate at the Superior Restaurant, and it was right before my sweet sixteen party. So of course I invited him to my sweet sixteen party, and I never went out with anybody else after that. My father was not happy about that, but he thought I was too young. Nate was nineteen, I was sixteen. He said, "He's too old for you!" So nobody listened to my father. He thought we did. And when Nate graduated, he went to Lafayette College for two years. I decided that -- and my father was in full agreement, which he shouldn't have been -- and since I was so in love with this guy, why should I go to college? So I didn't. I went to a business school in Bethlehem, and I went there for two years, so that's what I did. I went to be a secretary. So anyway, Nate and I got married on August 6th, 1950. He was working for his brother and we moved to Tremont Apartments. Everybody, all the young couples, everybody moved [there] when they got married. It was really a nice place. I don't know if there were any Jewish people living there today, but it was filled with young Jewish couples -- and then, maybe two years later, with the baby carriages. Anyway, after- we had Cherie, after when I had Laurie, we moved into a house on 23rd and Washington up the street from the Center. It was in the- Was the Center built then? I don't think... No, the center was not built then. The center was built in 1957. But anyway, it was a wonderful place to live because all you had to do was like roll down the hill and you were there. So our lives were wrapped around the Center. Then I tell you -- through the years, I was active. I think the first organization that I got involved with was the Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, because I always loved the Center. And then some of my friends -- we had joined Hadassah too, which I belonged to -- and then I became very active in Hadassah. Hadassah taught me to be a Jew. They taught me how to be as philanthropic as I could, because they always had quotas that we had to make, to send money to National. That was very important. And we always had National women come in and speak to us, and they really got us very enthused. And Mrs. Leonard, who was the founder of Hadassah -- Allentown Hadassah-- Do you want me to stop? [interview is interrupted] SC: Well, maybe we should just move to- Well your work at Hadassah and then I'll ask you, what made you feel the most creative and what you valued most in life. Most creative and Hadassah is what you said last time, so maybe just move through what you did in Hadassah and I'll ask you the other one. MB: Anyway, where was I? I was very involved with Hadassah. I did a lot of things -- I collected blue boxes, I went door to door day to get puskas [Yiddish--charity box used to collect doinations] and everyone was very pleasant, and that was one of the jobs, one of the important jobs . . . try to find somebody to do that today. So I stayed with Hadassah, I got on the board, and did many, many jobs. It was like stepping up and training me to be- I never expected to be asked to be president. And my best friend said, when they had the nomination committee meeting, that I wouldn't take it if they asked me, they were sure I would say no. So... I said yes. And that was 1970, it's a two year term, to 1972. That was my year, the year that I made my first trip to Israel. They were dedicating or rededicating the building on Mount Scopus. That was in no man's land during the war. The Arabs were here, the Israelis were here. This was- this territory in between belonged to no one.But they tried to use the hospital and they had patients there and doctors used to come in, convoys up Mount Scopus to take care of the patients. But, I don't know what year it was, but they were- when Israel declared themselves a state, the Arabs murdered everyone in that convoy, all these doctors and patients, as they were going up to Mount Scopus. And the English did nothing, they just stood by and watched. Anyway, they knew they had to build another hospital within the boundaries of Jewish Palestine. In the meantime, their work was done in another hospital and I don't remember. But anyway, the new hospital was built in Ein Kerem, which is in Western Jerusalem. There was no contest about building a hospital there. I don't remember when it was finished, but I know I went a couple of years later, and I remember Muriel and Phil Berman putting the mezuzah on the door. They were extremely active and they- one of the nursing hospitals was one that they gave the money for. They were wonderful. And Muriel used to come back from all these trips and we had Board meetings and tell us what happened. Was really so thrilling to hear it from the first person like that. And I said to her, then, "Muriel, I want to be able to do that someday." That didn't happen, but we were very happy to be big contributors to Hadassah. Nate loved it. I took him, I dragged him along on my second trip with George and Mina Finkelstein. And George's suitcase never came. George must have been [unclear], and he was wearing [Nate's] clothes until his luggage came. Kind of funny. Anyway, they were wonderful to be with because they had lived in Jerusalem for many years. In fact, Arnon says that he's a Palestinian. He was born there. Anyway, we- Nate became so involved with the philanthropics of Hadassah, that he got caught up in it and he became involved with -- what was it called? It was called UJA, it was not called Federation -- United Jewish Appeal. So he started as a solicitor, I think, and worked his way up into the Presidency and Chairman of the Campaign. And we used to go to the big meetings in New York where everybody came to announce their pledges. So we used to go there and they would stand up and announce his pledge. And a lot of times I -- I'm falling through the table! Anyway, that was his love and there was nothing I could do to tell him that you're doing too much. He never felt he gave enough. So he loved it, and he felt he made a lot of Jews that weren't Jews before. And one of his jobs being on the National Board was to travel with-- NATHAN BRAUNSTEIN: You're telling my story. MB: Are you supposed to tell your story? GAIL EISENBERG: Yes, we'll let him tell his story. SC: You know, the last time we asked what made you feel the most creative and what you valued so much, you talked about what Hadassah meant to you. Can you talk a little bit about that? MB: Hadassah meant everything to me. My best friends were also involved with Hadassah and we worked together on projects. We used to sit and cut out invitations, we cooked in the kitchen. It was very close to my heart, and I loved being able to contribute to Hadassah. GE: You know what, may I bring the picture- you have a picture of the women presidents. I'm going to bring it, okay? Because that was also- you just shared with us a little bit, who these different presidents were. MB: I have a picture of all the presidents up to one that came after me. Mrs. Leonard was the founder, and her house is now the President's House of Muhlenberg. Beautiful house. I was never in it- yes I was, I was. She used to cook Hungarian meals for us. She was an elegant lady. SC: So it was on Leh Street, it was the Leh Street house? MB: This is Mrs. Leonard. GE: This is Marilyn, next to the top. SC: So if you want to talk about some of the other women, that's fine. GE: I remember you talking about it a little bit, about your experiences with Joyce Kitey MB: Mina was dynamic. Mina, and of course, Muriel Berman. She was great. And Nettie Klass lived across the street from the Center. It's a good thing she did because one night she saw flames coming out of the building. Yeah, somebody set fire to it. I don't know. The office was destroyed and the lobby. I don't know how long it took to fix it. I don't know if they ever caught the people who did it. But thank God, Nettie lived across the street! And we used to spend a lot of time with Netty, because she knew everything about Hadassah -- who was coming, who was going, who was moving. So we used to laugh, and we used to say, "Somebody's sitting under this table and listening to all of this." We used to gossip . . . terrible. But we had fun with Nettie, Netty was wonderful. And Edie was- she brought youth to Hadassah. NB: The Board. To the Board. MB: Oh, she's the one who brought me to the board, is that what you said? I don't know. But it was Edie and then it was Rhoda and Joyce, who moved here. Joyce was from Philadelphia. NB: Joyce was a younger woman. She was the first of the younger women, Edie. MB: And Joyce was from Philadelphia. She went to school with Wilt the Stilt. He was in her class. She's very, very bright. Anyway, her husband was a lawyer. After he graduated law school, they moved to Orlando, Florida, but didn't stay too long. And luckily they came to Allentown. She was a delight, really energetic. She brought all kinds of ideas to us, we were doing all kinds of stuff, everything was so original. Every dance, every dance we had was very special. She just made us work. We worked a lot. And her poor husband, Harry, if we had a board meeting at her house and it was snow on the pavement, she called him up at his office and said, "Harry, you come home, you gotta shovel the snow." Harry was so good. Anyway, they moved to New York, and by that time, Harry had had cancer, prostate cancer. And we lost him, so Joyce lived alone in New York and was very involved with Hadassah. She would have been, I'm sure, national president if she didn't have to work. She moved -- she sold the condo on 57th Street near Bloomingdale's and moved to Florida. That's where Joyce is today. And Joyce is so beautiful and so smart. We thought in five years she's going to be married. She's still single -- she's in her late 70s already. So I guess she's not going to get [married]. But anyway, she still loves Hadassah. SC: So what do you value most in life? What have you valued in life? MB: Learning how to give. Which it wasn't really [Hadassah] -- that was my husband. He taught me how to give. I always thought I taught him. But as it worked out... Anyway, after Hadassah, all my friends got involved with other things. I became active with UJA. And then I was Campaign Chairman and President of Hadassah. We would go out to different chapters in the area and speak. We were very famous. Allentown, everybody, I think, was envious of us. NB: They were like the posse, going out, spreading Judaism. MB: It was nice being involved with Hadassah because it was something I could share with Nate. NB: Can I interject something? SC: Sure. NB: Hadassah became weak because the younger women started to have careers, to not- were not the stay-at-home moms that Hadassah grew with. That's what kept Hadassah strong in communities. But with the growing need, the need of two incomes in families, with women that had careers of their own, Hadassah itself became weak. It's still the biggest organization, women's organization, but it became weak because of that. SC: It's the story of the United States, too. Things have changed, where women . . . NB: There's a dichotomy to this: Hadassah and Allentown is very, very weak. But the Women's Jewish Federation division is stronger than the men's division. And that's where the impetus of giving and where it's smart to belong has grown, and I can live in it. SC: And is the Federation men and women? NB: The men are set up to take -- a backwards step. I mean, I was very involved here in Allentown. Anyway finish with Marilyn, I shouldn't be doing this now. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). 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Nathan and Marilyn Braunstein, December 12, 2015
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Nate Braunstein talks about first failing then succeeding in operating a belt factory with his brother. The business (Atlantic Apparel) began in the 1950s when women’s fashion commonly included shirt-waist dresses with a matching belt (same fabric) and some men’s pants had that, too. Nate’s factory made the belts. They were a component of the dress. As fashion changed, and there was little demand for fabric belts, Atlantic Apparel had to pivot to thinking about belts as an accessory item and selling to retailers rather than as a component of the dress or pants and selling to the manufacturers.
Marilyn Braunstein talks about her idyllic life growing up in Allentown and visiting both sets of grandparents and playing with her many cousins. One of Marilyn’s proudest affiliations is with Hadassah. Marilyn was a member, officer, and eventually president of Lehigh Valley Hadassah Organization. At the time of Marilyn’s presidency, Hadassah had a strong presence in the Lehigh Valley.
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LVTNT-30
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2015-12-12
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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d6f94fb097d9509e6d4dbaa58ab14c08
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Dolores Delin
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5.4 June 16, 2014 Dolores Delin, June 16, 2014 LVTNT-08 19:36 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Dolores Delin Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 DelinDolores_20140616.mp4 1.0:|25(5)|50(3)|73(3)|90(12)|115(10)|142(11)|173(8)|200(4)|221(7)|242(17)|269(15)|292(8)|315(13)|340(15)|371(8)|400(4)|431(3)|450(10)|483(11)|492(6) 0 https://youtu.be/zq44p57VAp8 YouTube video 0 Introduction—Dolores Delin SC: Okay, so this is an interview with the Delins, and it is June 16, 2014, and this is tape number 4.
 ; 
 ; GE: So, we remember, Dolores, last time you had told us about your grandmother and some of the sweet memories that you had and if you wanted to share with us about that she always wanted you to be independent.
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 ; DD: Right, right. As I said, my grandmother and I were very close, and we were, and when I got married, she pulled me aside and she said ‘look, Dolores, every woman should have her own knipple.’ And by that she meant every woman should have her own money. And so with that, she gave me a one hundred dollar bill. 0 150 Supporting the Family and Its Business as Wife and Mother GE: [A]s the wife, tell us a little bit about what it was like having first the business and then also with the apparel, with the trade association. So what was your role as the wife?
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 ; DD: Well, my role as a wife was the, well how can I put it? The first thing in Arnold’s life was the synagogue. He was very dedicated to the synagogue, and then he was very dedicated to his job, and then he was very dedicated to his family. There was no room for all of this at one time, so the synagogue, his business, and his family. So as a wife I was in charge of the house. And I was always supportive of Arnold and whatever he did, and all of the organizations that he was involved with, I was always there working behind him, writing his speeches, like everyone. 0 393 Children and Grandchildren DD: Two children.
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 ; SC: Two children, yes.
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 ; DD: Robin used to work for, she’s a licensed, she does licensing for Madame Alexandra Dolls, they’re collectibles. I don’t know if you are familiar with them. And my son, Scott, who is the Vice President of Sales with Superior Linen. Three grandchildren, Ariana, who is in public relations in Florida. She is an equestrian, and she writes for an equestrian magazine.
 ; 
 ; GE: Oh, isn’t that something.
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 ; DD: Yeah, and my grandson, the middle one, Noah, he just graduated from Ithaca, and he’s doing freelance work for Walt Disney. 0 732 Dolores' Values and Inspirations SC: So what do you value most in life?
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 ; DD: I value my children and my grandchildren. My grandmother would say that is the interest on your principle. That is the truth. They are special. And another thing she would say is that is the reward you get for not killing your children: your grandchildren.
 ; 
 ; GE: See that’s the dividend.
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 ; SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or complete in life? I’m talking about artistry in its most broad sense.
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 ; DD: Well I think I appreciate everything that I see. 0 910 Leadership, Wisdom, & ; Cultural Preservation—Respect for Age & ; Experience in the Jewish Community GE: I remember my grandmother lived to be, who I was very close with, lived to be 90/91, and I remember her saying, you know, when you get older, she said it feels like a dream. She said that so many years have passed, and she said it’s just hard to grasp it. And frankly, I already feel that way.
 ; 
 ; DD: Well, if you look back on what you’ve achieved over your lifetime, and you’re like, how did it happen.
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 ; GE: Right, right. And also, it feels so compressed because it feels like it wasn’t all that long ago that my children were little. Not long ago, I was a young bride. And you know, so many years have passed.
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 ; DD: And you see the young people growing up and having children, and you wonder.
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 ; SC: And I worry that they don’t value the wisdom of us as we get older.
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 ; DD: I think that’s a problem with our culture. We don’t appreciate the older people. I mean, other cultures appreciate them, but they don’t think that we are very smart. That we haven’t experienced life, that they are the only ones experiencing it. 0 MovingImage Dolores Delin talks about her close relationship with her grandmother and how she encouraged Dolores to be independent and resilient. Those traits were very important later in Dolores’s life when she opened an up-scale women’s clothing store in Pottsville. Dolores supported Arnold in his leadership roles at the synagogue in his business and, later, the Association. Dolores Delin, June 16, 2014 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Okay, so this is an interview with the Delins, and it is June 16, 2014, and this is tape number 4. GAIL EISENBERG: So, we remember, Dolores, last time you had told us about your grandmother and some of the sweet memories that you had and if you wanted to share with us about that she always wanted you to be independent. DOLORES DELIN: Right, right. As I said, my grandmother and I were very close, and we were, and when I got married, she pulled me aside and she said 'look, Dolores, every woman should have her own knipple.' And by that she meant every woman should have her own money. And so with that, she gave me a one hundred dollar bill. And she said 'put it away, Arnold doesn't have to know about it, and if you want anything--' Now if we think back, I'm married 65 years, $100 was a lot of money. So I put it away, and didn't say anything to Arnold about it, and we went on our honeymoon, and we went to Niagara Falls, we were traveling around. And at the Falls, Arnold loses all of our money, all of our Travelers Checks and everything was in Travelers Checks, and he doesn't have anything. And he found out when he went to pay the bill, and he wanted to stay at this fancy hotel. And he goes to pay the bill, and he doesn't have any money, and no credit cards. In those days, we used Travelers Checks, that was it. He didn't know what to do and he was stressing, and I said, 'don't worry about it,' and I turned around and I pulled out this hundred dollar bill. And ever since then he's been looking for the knipple. And there is one, and I tell my son to have one and I tell my daughter to have one. My daughter's not married, but in any young woman, I always say it is very important, for every person, man or woman, to have a little independence, to have a little money put aside so that you don't have to don't have to account to anybody for it. And that was my grandmother's philosophy. SC: So maybe we should talk a little bit about your children, and then go on to more business? GE: You know what? I don't think because, yeah, I don't think there is really anything else with the business per say. Well, you know what? Maybe-- SC: You go ahead. GE: One thing that I was just thinking about is as the wife, tell us a little bit about what it was like having first the business and then also with the apparel, with the trade association. So what was your role as the wife? DD: Well, my role as a wife was the, well how can I put it? The first thing in Arnold's life was the synagogue. He was very dedicated to the synagogue, and then he was very dedicated to his job, and then he was very dedicated to his family. There was no room for all of this at one time, so the synagogue, his business, and his family. So as a wife I was in charge of the house. And I was always supportive of Arnold and whatever he did, and all of the organizations that he was involved with, I was always there working behind him, writing his speeches, like everyone. You know, you don't stand up for the bows but you're there to be the showcase to be there. And that's just the way it was. I mean he was with the Association, I did whatever I had to do to make all of his members happy. And we gave, we never got the best rooms when we traveled, the president of the Association got the best rooms. We took whatever was leftover because that's the way he felt. He didn't feel it was his place to have the best, and so I just went along with it. GE: And how about in the factory? DD: In the factory, he ran the factory, and then one day, I wasn't working, this was before my working days, I thought that it would be nice to help him out, right? So I said to him, " I'll come down and I'll work in the factory." I had two small children at home. So what could I do? I didn't know how to sew, so he put me in the folding department to fold the blouses and box them up. So while I'm working, I'm folding and I'm thinking 'what are we going to have for dinner, what are the kids doing, and I had a housekeeper in, is she doing this, is she cleaning the bathroom, is she doing what she has to do while I'm here at work.' I happen to go inside to call and make sure that she takes something out of the freezer for dinner. So I walk into the office and I call her up to take something, and he walks in and he says 'if you think you are going to stay on the telephone all day long and work, I don't need you here.' I said, 'you know something, you're absolutely right, you don't need me here.' And that was the last thing I had to do with the factory. GE: Did you do anything while you were at home, write books or anything.? DD: No, no. GE: So it was really that your involvement began later with the Association. DD: My involvement really with the Association was minimal. Arnold was up front. He did everything with the Association, he was negotiating, he did everything. Mine was just social. I had absolutely nothing to do with the Association. I had my own thing at the time. I was busy with my own business, doing my own thing, and the children and their organizations and I was very busy. GE: Right, right, so by the time he really was the Executive Director of the Association, DD: In the 70s. GE: Okay, so by that time, you already were in business. DD: I was working. Right. I was in business and I was working and I was just going along for the ride. GE: Right, okay. I think, do you have anything? SC: Yeah, I think I'll ask-- DD: Two children. SC: Two children, yes. DD: Robin used to work for, she's a licensed, she does licensing for Madame Alexandra Dolls, they're collectibles. I don't know if you are familiar with them. And my son, Scott, who is the Vice President of Sales with Superior Linen. Three grandchildren, Ariana, who is in public relations in Florida. She is an equestrian, and she writes for an equestrian magazine. GE: Oh, isn't that something. DD: Yeah, and my grandson, the middle one, Noah, he just graduated from Ithaca, and he's doing freelance work for Walt Disney. GE: Wow, as a freelance writing? Graphics? DD: He's also in public relations. He took an internship with them in the summertime and it led to this freelance job because they are not hiring right now. He's looking for a position. And Benjamin is the baby, and he is still in high school. He's a sweetheart. SC: He's supposed to be a baby. Benjamin's the baby. DD: He's the baby. SC: In the Bible. GE: That's right. SC: And what was the grandson that was in Ithaca? DD: Noah. I'll tell you a funny story about Noah. For my grandchildren, when I heard that my daughter-in-law was pregnant, I love to work with my hands, I do a lot of needlepoint and quilting and all that kind of stuff, so I made a quilt for Ariana. And then when they told me that Beth was pregnant again, I didn't know what it was going to be. And I said to Arnold, I went into the store and I saw this print of Noah's Ark, and I said to him, "Gee this is pretty, blow it up for me, I'm going to transfer that onto a quilt with Noah's Ark and all of the animals, and so on and so forth." And then I told the kids, "I'm making you a quilt," but I didn't say what it was yet, "I'm making another one, I'm busy making another quilt. While you're cooking, I'm sewing." And so, Beth called me up one day, "Well Mom, we decided on a name," she said, "Well, it's going to be a boy." And I said, 'Aw, that's wonderful." "And we're going to name him Noah." Well I just got the chills because I had no idea what Beth was having. GE: You know, I met your youngest, Benjamin, not long ago they had in the synagogue a program with Klezmer Dancing, and he was there and he is a sweetheart. A very, very nice young man. He was with some young girl ; maybe there were just friends doing the thing, but I'm just saying that they were adorable. And I remember asking, who is that, and someone said Ben Delin, Benjamin Delin. DD: Yeah, they had a nanny for all three children because Beth, you know, is a nurse practitioner. GE: Oh, no, I didn't know that. DD: Yeah, neurology nurse practitioner. And so they had a nanny for the children and in fact Beth was the RN at Lehigh. She was in charge of the emergency. It was terrible, she worked all kinds of crazy hours. And she said to me, 'Mom, I'm thinking about going back to school to become a nurse practitioner, but it's going to be a couple of years.' I said, 'well, honey, what difference is it going to make. The years are going to pass whether you do it or don't do it, so you might as well do it.' 'Well, what am I going to do with the kids?' I said, 'I'll tell you what, I promise you that one day a week, every single Wednesday you can count on me. I will be there. The rest of the time you will have to figure it out, but every Wednesday, I'll give you every Wednesday.' So that's what happened. I gave her every Wednesday. And one Wednesday, I am driving down the highway, I had a Jeep at the time, and I came to Kutztown, and we were stopped. I those days we didn't have cell phones. How am I going to get to her? I got out of the car and I ran up and down, 'does anyone have a telephone in their car?' So nobody had anything so I'm sitting in the car and I'm waiting and time is passing, and time is passing, and traffic moved just a little, and there is a bank and a farm. And I was thinking, to hell with this, I'm going over to the bank, I have a Jeep, I saw them do it on television. I went over this bank, through this cornfield and around and got to the house cause my daughter-in-law had to go to Philadelphia. Now they have a fence there. Every time I drive by, I see the fence, and they should put my name on it. Or I should pay for the fence. And when she graduated, they gave her a bouquet of flowers, and she gave me a bouquet of flowers cause she knew that she could count on me, you know, once a week. Through thick and thin, she knew I'd be there. GE: Well that's really nice. SC: So what do you value most in life? DD: I value my children and my grandchildren. My grandmother would say that is the interest on your principle. That is the truth. They are special. And another thing she would say is that is the reward you get for not killing your children: your grandchildren. GE: See that's the dividend. SC: And what has made you feel the most artistic or complete in life? I'm talking about artistry in its most broad sense. DD: Well I think I appreciate everything that I see. I mean, living out here I just love. I always tell my children, when I get old and senile, just put an electric fence like they do for the cows and just let me wander around because I just love it. And I see a lot of beauty in a lot of things. I'm driving down, when we first moved here, I remember, when you go to Shenandoah from here, there is one area where the ice forms over, goes down to the road. And my girlfriend who came from Shenandoah, we were driving up and said 'oh, my god, this is gorgeous,' and she didn't even know what I was talking about. She was just driving by and didn't see it. I just see the beauty that surrounds you, and I'm so thankful for it. SC: I always love that drive. GE: When you say Shenandoah, is that-- SC: Into the hills. And the Blue Ridge Parkway, and what's the other one? It goes into North Carolina. DD: Oh, you're talking about a different area. I'm talking about Shenandoah which is a little town from Pottsville, Flackville, Shenandoah. But I know what you're talking about. This area, when you go up there, it is all mountainous. Right now, you'll see all of the windmills are up there, but the mountains in the winter, the ice just forms from running off of the mountains and it is just a cascade of beautiful ice waterfalls. It's really so pretty. SC: I'm going to make a note to go there. DD: In the wintertime right.? SC: Yes. DD: Now you'll see all of the windmills, all of the windmills are across the skyline now. GE: So a little bit you're saying is that you just love the natural beauty. DD: I do, yeah, I really do. I like everything. I'm thankful to be alive. I can't believe that 85 years have gone. That's the sad part of it all. SC: Well, thank you. DD: You're welcome. GE: I remember my grandmother lived to be, who I was very close with, lived to be 90/91, and I remember her saying, you know, when you get older, she said it feels like a dream. She said that so many years have passed, and she said it's just hard to grasp it. And frankly, I already feel that way. DD: Well, if you look back on what you've achieved over your lifetime, and you're like, how did it happen. GE: Right, right. And also, it feels so compressed because it feels like it wasn't all that long ago that my children were little. Not long ago, I was a young bride. And you know, so many years have passed. DD: And you see the young people growing up and having children, and you wonder. SC: And I worry that they don't value the wisdom of us as we get older. DD: I think that's a problem with our culture. We don't appreciate the older people. I mean, other cultures appreciate them, but they don't think that we are very smart. That we haven't experienced life, that they are the only ones experiencing it. GE: I'm not sure, I might just don't know enough, maybe, Sue does, I don't know if that was always true in America but I certainly think since the 60s. SC: Yes, they had been, it has been since the 60s. GE: Right, right, and very exaggerated. SC: Very exaggerated. GE: It's almost like anyone above the age of 30, don't-- SC: Don't trust anyone over 27 is the stigma historical statement. GE: Right, is that really was it? DD: You know I think it's further back. I think when the immigrants came over, and the next generation spoke English, they looked back at their parents as griner [Yiddish for greenhorn or new immigrant]. Now my grandmother spoke three languages, Russian, Polish, English, and Hebrew, and Yiddish, five languages. And yet, when she would come and visit, people would talk down to her. And knowingly, it bothered me, and she had a sense of humor, and I said she was a cook and a baker, she made challah every Friday night. And one of my friends was a doctor, and his hobby was making challahs. So they came to visit, and one day he came to visit, and my grandmother and I made rugelach. "Oh," he says, "Fanny, these are delicious. I'll teach you how to make challahs, if you'll teach me how to make rugelach." She says, 'that's a very good idea.' We're not giving her credit for what she can do and also speaking down to them, and I think that's a part of it. The respect, you know, what they brought with them when they came. SC: I think you're right. DD: Yeah, and then you had a college education, and your parents didn't have a college education. GE: Even the first generation, my parents' family, first generation did not go to college, but nonetheless they were English speakers. DD: That's right. GE: And so it's interesting, my father's side, the family came one generation earlier but my father's father remained in Europe, my family went through the Holocaust. My dad was the only survivor. When he came here, he really had much less in common with his cousins. They were Americans, and they in many ways do look down upon you, but the aunts and uncles adored him because my father knew their culture. My father could speak their language-- DD: They had shared memories. GE: They had a lot of shared memories. So as much as they loved their own children, of course they love their children and are proud of their children, but their children it was much more of a divide because they were Americans. So it was interesting, he always did have much more of a relationship with a lot of the aunts and the uncles than he did with the cousins. DD: That's a shame, but that is the way that it is. That's the way it goes. GE: Now, are we done? Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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00:19:36
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Dolores Delin, June 16, 2014
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Dolores Delin talks about her close relationship with her grandmother and how she encouraged Dolores to be independent and resilient. Those traits were very important later in Dolores’s life when she opened an up-scale women’s clothing store in Pottsville. Dolores supported Arnold in his leadership roles at the synagogue in his business and, later, the Association.
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LVTNT-08
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2014-06-16
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Copyright remains with the interview subject and their heirs.
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https://textile.digitalarchives.muhlenberg.edu/files/original/e4f9728dc997c89cb44484bb70f7f7e3.png
46f4e21e9129c1e2d819a40b76502831
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Arnold Delin
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5.4 June 16, 2014 Arnold Delin June 16, 2014 LVTNT-01 56:21 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Arnold Delin Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 DelinArnold_20140616.mp4 1.0:|19(2)|40(3)|65(4)|82(14)|101(14)|118(6)|131(2)|152(4)|169(2)|190(2)|207(2)|224(12)|245(7)|266(13)|291(5)|312(3)|335(10)|360(3)|387(2)|404(13)|427(10)|450(9)|475(4)|500(8)|523(2)|544(11)|563(12)|584(14)|607(9)|634(3)|653(17)|672(15)|691(9)|714(12)|745(8)|770(18)|793(3)|816(2)|837(15)|862(2)|879(9)|904(8)|933(14)|962(3)|985(4)|1014(6)|1047(13)|1072(5)|1103(2)|1140(17)|1165(2)|1188(5)|1207(15)|1234(12)|1261(12)|1288(6)|1293(10) 0 https://youtu.be/fqCkDHOpX74 YouTube video 0 Family History SC: Today is June 16, 2014 ; interview with Arnold Delin. Could we go back, how much you know about your family as far back as you know? It gives us a pattern to see how you got to where you were.
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 ; AD: I can tell you where my parents came from. They were refugees from Poland and from that area. I don’t exactly know where, but within the area of where the Jewish people emigrated from Poland. Somehow our relatives brought them here, some settled in Brooklyn. Some settled in Massachusetts, some in this neck of the woods. 
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 ; SC: Do you know any of their names and anything about what they did?
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 ; AD: My father was a peddler I guess, whatever work he was able to get.
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 ; SC: What was his name?
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 ; AD: Simon Delinsky. Then when I got a job in this country, I worked on Wall Street for a sponge company, I think I told you that, and actually they were German Jews and the Jewish word is poshnisht [Yiddish for it shouldn’t happen], they thought certain things about the Jewish people, so they shortened my name to Delin. It was more Americanized. 0 593 Work Experiences SC: So did you have any other jobs besides the grocery store and the sponge company? 
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 ; DD: Yes he did. He got a job when we got married, within a year I was pregnant. He quit the sponge company because they wanted him to travel and he didn’t want to be on the road. So, he got a job at the post office. He worked nights. And then he got a job ; he opened up a fruit store. I had a girlfriend whose brother was in that business and they went out together. 
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 ; AD: 23rd Street, Jewish neighborhood. 
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 ; DD: One day, I was pregnant and went down to keep him company, and a woman came into the store and she said to him, check the melons. 
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 ; AD: She wanted a super ripe melon.
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 ; DD: He went into the back room and brought it out to her. I said what are you doing? He said I took it to the ripening room. He took a hammer and hit it.
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 ; AD: That was on Avenue J, Ocean Avenue. You got the train coming to New York.
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 ; DD: And then my father was a contractor. He made ladies blouses and clothes. He needed help in the place, so Arnold came down and worked for him. 
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 ; SC: In Pennsylvania?
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 ; DD: We were in Brooklyn and my father had two shops there. But then he went bankrupt. 0 898 Contractors vs. Manufacturers SC: Were these contractors in these years that you were working for? 
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 ; DD: They were manufacturers. In those days they were all manufacturers. There was no such thing as contractors.
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 ; AD: Actually, the definition of a manufacturer is they did not have salespeople. The salespeople would get the merchandise. Sometimes it was a combination ; sometimes the manufacturer did have people who would sell for them. 
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 ; DD: The difference between a manufacturer and a contractor. A manufacturer buys the fabric, sells the fabric, and gets the fabric, designs it. A contractor sews. 
 ; 
 ; SC: So there wasn’t a differentiation back then?
 ; 
 ; DD: In the first early days, there was no such thing as a contractor. Everybody was a manufacturer. Everybody manufactured. Then, they found out that it would be more profitable for them if they had somebody do all the sewing and they didn’t have the headaches of the workers, and the labor force and so on. They would farm it out to someone else and say, “here is my fabric, and here is the pattern.” Some places did the cutting. 0 1042 Clothing Outlets DD: In fact, Arnold eventually became a contractor. They would cut and if there was any fabric leftover, they would make what they call overcuts. And they would sell it themselves to make some pocket money. That’s how that market came about. You know, discounted clothes. Because the contractors, whatever excess they had, they would sell. 
 ; 
 ; SC: Outlets?
 ; 
 ; DD: Well the factories, they would open up the door and you could come in and buy a couple of shirts. I remember one woman came in, she was a very fancy lady, and she looked at the label and she didn’t like the label. So Arnold said to her, “where do you usually shop?” She shopped in Saks Fifth. So he went back and took a label and put it on the blouse. She was very happy. Then there was another industry, a trucking industry that just—
 ; 
 ; AD: It was interstate trucking ; they controlled all the trucking. A certain element that controlled it. A certain element. They would deliver the goods to the contractors. They would deliver it one day then ship it back at night and pick up the finished garment and bring it back to the manufacturer. The manufacturer shipped it. 0 1194 Unionizing DD: And then after, there were so many contractors spread out in Pennsylvania. They all ran to Pennsylvania because the unions. The manufacturers were unionized in Manhattan. The contractors were just mom and pop opening up a shop with sewing machines and they started sewing. 
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 ; AD: Then they start to organize the workers. So then the factories became organized. Some ran away, some went from the North to the South, where unions weren’t accepted at that time. Eventually they did. Then the imports started coming when the manufacturers found it was cheaper to have goods made overseas. Then that’s how it started expanding from overseas to America.
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 ; DD: When they had all the contractors that started, then they realized that they needed a voice to speak as one. So there were four hundred members at one time. Instead of each one making a contract with Joe for a dollar and this one for 50 cents, they had one voice and spoke in unison.
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 ; AD: The unions started to organize the workers. Once they organized the workers, they had the manufacturers by the you know what, because if they didn’t become a union shop, they couldn’t get their goods made. It was always a fight between non-union and union. The shirt companies were in the union. They were in the amalgamated union, the dress and ladies sportswear and stuff like that. That’s the type of merchandise. And they were in the International Ladies Garment. 0 1471 Dolores' Father's Business SC: What was the name of the dress factory and the children’s goods?
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 ; AD: I’m trying to think of what it was.
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 ; DD: I too don’t remember my father’s business, what it was. It was located in Brooklyn and he worked for a company by the name of Judy Kent. 
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 ; AD: They were amalgamated.
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 ; DD: They made children’s, when I say children’s, I’m talking about 1 year olds, 2 year olds. They made little skirts and blouses like doll clothes. I remember my daughter was born then and he brought home a little skirt, all accordion pleating and little blouses. That was my father. Judy Kent wanted my father to move to Pennsylvania because that was a trend. My father was in Brooklyn. His factories were in Brooklyn and they wanted my father to move to Pennsylvania. And my father said, “Pennsylvania?”
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 ; AD: They wanted to run away from that time. The unions weren’t organized yet in Pennsylvania. So one thing led to another then eventually we moved. 0 1595 The Delin Family Moves to Pottsville, PA DD: We looked in the papers and there was a job in Schuylkill Haven in a lingerie firm and he came out and he called me up. He said they’ll give me the job, I have a job, but they won't give me a contract. What shall I do? I said take the job, because you’re so terrific that we’ll be okay there. So that’s how we came here. 
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 ; AD: Manufacturers didn’t want to commit themselves because they were still running away from the union. So one thing led to another... So I worked there during the week and came home on weekends. Then enough was enough, either you move—
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 ; DD: Well I was pregnant with our second child, and I didn’t want to make the move until I had the baby. So he would commute—for a year he commuted, and then-
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 ; AD: Friday afternoon I would catch the bus and come home and then to get back to the factory I would go back late Sunday evening to open up the factory early Monday morning to make sure they got started properly. I lived at the YMCA, 5 dollars or 6 dollars a week. It was a different type of living. I met a lot of non-Jews, as I got involved with the community.
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 ; SC: And that was here already in Pottsville?
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 ; DD: He was here in Pottsville ; he lived in Pottsville. The job was in Schuylkill Haven which is just a little town nearby and he lived at the Y. He ate at the local restaurant where he met the Jewish people. He had friends here before I came, he had made some acquaintances. 0 2044 Arnold's Factory AD: Peekaboo. That was mine.
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 ; DD: What was the name of the factory that hired you, do you remember their name? The one that hired you, the lingerie firm that hired you? … It will come to you.
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 ; GE: So Peekaboo, is that what you named it?
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 ; AD: The name of the company, I named it.
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 ; GE: Okay, and tell us about the kinds of products you made there.
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 ; AD: We made ladies lingerie. Like petticoats, slips.
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 ; DD: And then you made blouses.
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 ; AD: Then they switched to blouses, ladies blouses, children’s blouses.
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 ; DD: When he would go into the market, he would see, he would go to the manufacturers, and he would try to sign up any manufacturer to see what they needed, what he could sew…
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 ; GE: What he could sew and what they needed.
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 ; DD: Right, so it would be lingerie, it would be blouses.
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 ; GE: Okay, and your workers were flexible enough that you were able to do that.
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 ; AD: Well a sewer was a sewer. We trained, we had a forelady. Different products had different types of sewing. And fabric was different also. 0 2271 Arnold's Relationship with Him Employees GE: Okay okay, so you really didn’t have, really didn’t do that, okay. And do you want to tell us about your relationship with your employees?
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 ; AD: They worked for me. I mean either they produced or they didn’t produce. We had a good relationship. There were mostly non-Jewish people, all non-Jewish. Once in a while, you might have someone Jewish who was a sewer. We had a good relationship, I mean, once you get organized with the union, you follow the union contract and that was it.
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 ; GE: And I think you said that you were the first one locally to hire someone who was not white, a Black person.
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 ; AD: Yes, that came and I had one working for me. She was an excellent worker, and she had a couple of- her sister moved to the area and brought her friend along, and one became three. And some of my workers were not too happy because I hired a black person. But they got along once they got to know them, they were excellent workers and they produced, broke the ice so to speak. And another factory hired a black—there weren’t that many blacks in the Lehigh area. 0 2399 Business Moving South GE: While you were in the business, as the years went on, because it was going South, because a lot of the time...was it getting harder and harder?
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 ; AD: As the unions started organizing the factories, they couldn’t compete so the manufacturer, who was still non-union, saw you were not giving goods to those who were not union-shop, he started opening up shops down South. And there’s one open, another followed, followed, and then it was a lot of non-union manufacturers down South, and that’s how a lot of the work fell to the way, from the union shops to the non-union shops.
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 ; DD: The trend was after they saturated Pennsylvania, and then- with non-union shops, then when the union came in to organize them, now the manufacturers had to look for another way out, so they started going down South where there weren’t any non-union shops.
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 ; AD: New England had a lot of union shops, and everyone filtered like she just said, they filtered away from the North to the South.
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 ; GE: Right, right. The manufacturers that you produced for, were they always union?
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 ; AD: To have a union shop, it had to be union manufacturers.
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 ; GE: Okay, and as the years went on, I guess you opened it in the ‘60s, ‘70s, something like that? Did it start becoming, was it noticeably that it was harder and harder each year to get enough business?
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 ; AD: We were able to get the business, even some of the non-union manufacturers, when they wanted—if you made a good quality garment, they would pay the price. They were flexible. 0 2589 The Industry Moves Overseas DD: It got really bad when they started shipping overseas. 
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 ; GE: That was the ‘70s then, correct?
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 ; DD: Yeah, and when they moved and started working overseas that’s when it really got bad and that’s when they didn’t, the manufacturers no longer made the fabric here. They bought the fabric overseas, had the fabric shipped to a factory overseas, had it cut, and then they would ship them the finished products.
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 ; GE: The whole operation…
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 ; DD: The whole operation was overseas. So the people that made the machines didn’t have any business. The people that made the cloth didn’t have any people in it. The people that made the cotton didn’t have any business. The thread [manufacturers] didn’t have any business. And so, it started breaking down, all the industries that supported this one product, they started getting everything made overseas, and then the manufacturers would then have a representative that would fly over their quality control man, we would call him, that would fly overseas to make sure things were the way that they hoped they would be.
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 ; GE: Right, right. The trade association, what were the years of your prime involvement? When you were president. Was that around…
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 ; DD: The ‘70s? Late ‘60s, early ‘70s. 0 2704 The Atlantic Apparel Contractors Association DD: Mikus. Mikus started with the association, didn’t he?
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 ; AD: Michus started with the union, and he represented the union at that time, then he broke away and then he started representing the contractors.
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 ; DD: He worked with the association. Arnold was on the board of the association, being a contractor, he was part of the board. And then Mikus always would call on Arnold: could you do this for me, could you do that for me? And Arnold became his right hand man. And then when Mikus died, the board said, how about you take over.
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 ; GE: And at that point, did you sell the factory?
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 ; AD: No, I kept it.
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 ; DD: He kept the factory, and my son went into the factory.
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 ; GE: Okay, okay, so that’s Scott?
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 ; DD: Scott.
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 ; GE: Okay, and then Scott started running the factory.
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 ; DD: Scott started running the factory. Scott went to Textile Institution, so he had a background, and he was brought up in the factory, and he had a background of what it was about. But things started going really bad, and all the factories were closing up one after the other. 0 2824 Arnold Becomes Executive Director of the Association GE: And I am assuming when Arnold was president of the association, that was a job…
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 ; DD: Oh, yeah. It was a full time paying job. That’s why he just couldn’t handle both. He was traveling all over. He was going into Harrisburg, making presentations.
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 ; GE: Right. Because they were basically also, besides representing, they were also trying to lobby.
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 ; DD: Yes, they were lobbying. They spent a lot of time lobbying…
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 ; AD: In Washington.
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 ; DD: He was in Washington a lot. He tried to stop exports, and he really tried, but correct me if I’m wrong, Arnold, didn’t the union encourage the overseas saying that they should help them out, they’re poor nations, and help them out…
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 ; AD: At the beginning, the union didn’t fight the manufacturers because they figured, well they needed help because they were doing- connected to other industries, in importing and exporting, but then it expanded and…
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 ; DD: They got a commission. The union got a percentage on every piece of fabric that came into the United States. 0 2947 Jewish Contractors and Italian Contractors GE: Right, right. You know, in Allentown, I know that a lot of the contractors were Jewish.
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 ; AD: In what?
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 ; GE: In Allentown, a lot of the contractors were Jewish. How about in this area, in Schuylkill County?
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 ; AD: Very few, I was one of them—well three or four.
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 ; GE: Well what kind of ethnicity did the others have? The contractors?
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 ; AD: I’ll tell you what I told you before. In Allentown, they had Amalgamated Union…
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 ; DD: No, honey, she wants to know whether they were Italian, Jewish…
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 ; GE: Right.
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 ; AD: Very few Jewish people in this area, in the factories. There were a lot of non-Jewish Protestants and Catholics.
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 ; GE: Right, but the ones who owned the factories in this area, were they often Italian in this area?
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 ; AD: They were mostly somewhat Jewish, the ones who owned the factories.
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 ; DD: When you say this area, what do you mean?
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 ; GE: Schuylkill.
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 ; DD: Schuylkill County had a lot of Jewish owners, but if you go up to Windgap, where his office was, they were mainly, I would say, if you look at it, the majority of his contractors were Italian. They came from Windgap, Roseta. 0 3080 What Do You Value Most in Life? SC: So just a couple of sort of general questions about you. One of them is what do you value most in life?
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 ; AD: What’s this?
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 ; SC: What do you value most in life?
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 ; AD: What do I value? Have a good family that you live with, raise your children properly, and everything else. As far as I am concerned, I have children and I come from a Jewish home, and I feel I expect them that when they get older and get married that they will still continue being in a Jewish home. And mixed marriage today is a touchy thing to talk about because a lot of the Jewish families have mixed marriages and visa-versa and whatnot. Sometimes you don’t get involved. You know, Allentown has a lot of mixed marriages, New York has a lot of mixed marriages, you stay away from that conversation. I do, anyway. 0 3142 What Has Made You Feel the Most Creative? SC: And also, what has made you feel the most creative or fulfilled personally in your life? Has given you that sense of almost artistry in your life or…
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 ; AD: I don’t understand the question.
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 ; DD: May I answer for him because he always says this to me. Whenever he gets his monthly check from his pension, and from Social Security, he always says, “See, I provided. I am a good provider, and I did well.” And this happens every month. This is what I would say…
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 ; SC: That gave you satisfaction, that you provided.
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 ; AD: Not everybody, people would work, they would get their money from the manufacturers, they get their check and instead of paying payroll, they would go and gamble. You don’t go through life that way. Once that happens, you’re out of business.
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 ; GE: And so many families depend on…
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 ; AD: Well, so listen, they worked too…
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 ; GE: Exactly.
 ; 0 MovingImage Arnold Delin talks about how he was raised in Nashua, New Hampshire. After World War II he moved to Brooklyn, worked there and met and married Dolores. A few years later the Delin family moved to Pottsville, PA when Arnold landed a good job in Schuylkill Haven, Pennsylvania as the manager of a lingerie factory. Later, Arnold bought the factory. In the 1970s Arnold became the Executive Director of the Atlantic Apparel Contractors Association. The Association represented the contractors collectively in negotiations with the Union and with manufacturers and heavily lobbied the government on behalf of its members. An Interview with Arnold Delin, June 16, 2014 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is June 16, 2014 ; interview with Arnold Delin. Could we go back, how much you know about your family as far back as you know? It gives us a pattern to see how you got to where you were. ARNOLD DELIN: I can tell you where my parents came from. They were refugees from Poland and from that area. I don't exactly know where, but within the area of where the Jewish people emigrated from Poland. Somehow our relatives brought them here, some settled in Brooklyn. Some settled in Massachusetts, some in this neck of the woods. SC: Do you know any of their names and anything about what they did? AD: My father was a peddler I guess, whatever work he was able to get. SC: What was his name? AD: Simon Delinsky. Then when I got a job in this country, I worked on Wall Street for a sponge company, I think I told you that, and actually they were German Jews and the Jewish word is poshnisht [Yiddish for it shouldn't happen], they thought certain things about the Jewish people, so they shortened my name to Delin. It was more Americanized. SC: Can you tell me anything about your mother, where she was from and what her name was? DOLORES DELIN: Sarah Rubin. AD: One was Rubin. I don't know her exact name. One of my sisters was Rubin, so I can imagine it was Rubin. She came from Poland, the area where they did not like Jews and got out of there and came into Brooklyn. Then they spread them out as they usually do, they don't put them all in one area. DD: Can I interject? SC: Sure. DD: His mother and father were married before. They came over from the old country. His father lost his first wife. His mother lost her husband. They had children when they met. He had a daughter and she didn't have any children. Sarah was his daughter right? AD: Sarah was my mother's daughter. DD: So they brought children to the marriage, and then they had two children, Arnold and Arnold's sister Mildred who is older than him. Miriam was his father's daughter. They lived in Nashua, New Hampshire. SC: Do you have any memories of Nashua, New Hampshire? AD: I remember I went to school there. I grew up and went into the army. When I came back, my mother wanted me to marry a Jewish girl. I had a Jewish sister who lived in Brooklyn, and I spent a couple weeks there and met Dolores there. One thing led to another, I checked her bank account to make sure everything was all right. DD: He worked in a grocery store in Nashua as a young boy. Do you mind telling them about your experiences in the grocery store? AD: Well, people used to come in, they wanted a ripe tomato, so they would squeeze a tomato because they liked it soft, it didn't make any difference. Brockwins is a chain grocery store like the A& ; P. I worked in a grocery store. I mixed a lot. The Jewish community was small, but I mixed a lot with the non-Jewish kids. Working in the store, I met a lot of non-Jewish people. So that's how I spread out throughout my early life, so to speak. DD: This was during the days of the rationing. AD: The rationing, you would have coupons and points. I had to make sure certain people, especially Jewish people, would get their fair share of groceries with or without the points. We got along pretty good. There was very little anti-Semitism. There was anti-Semitism all over, but because my father was a peddler, we got to know a lot of the non-Jewish people. SC: Can we back up for a second? Tell me your full name and your birth date. AD: My full name is Arnold. The original name was Abraham, then when I got a job with the Americanized sponge company, he was a German Jew. It didn't go right to have a Jewish name so I had to cut my name short. Arnold from Abraham and Delinsky to Delin. I was born in 1925. 75 and 14, so I'm 89. SC: So your dad, did he go by the name Delinsky? AD: Yeah. Simon Delinsky. SC: So, were you born in Nashua, or were you born in Brooklyn? AD: I was born in Nashua. DD: His family lived in Nashua. They never came to Brooklyn. His sister got married, and she lived in Brooklyn. His mother was ill. She asked him when he came out of the service to move to Brooklyn to be with his sister so that he could be in a Jewish element. AD: She was afraid of marrying a non-Jew. DD: Unorthodox for a Jew to marry a non-Jew. In fact, he did have a brother, Phillip, who was older than him, who did marry a non-Jew. The parents sat shiva [period of formal mourning in Judaism] for him and never saw him again. So it was very important in his mother's mind that he marries a Jew. AD: Mother and father, everybody. One of the things that were a no-no in a community was mixed marriage. SC: In most cultures in the United States. So when did you go down to Brooklyn? How old were you when you moved down with your sister? DD: He was about 22/23. SC: When you moved down there, how were you employed? Where did you work? AD: Sponge company. America's Sponge Shammy Company. DD: They were located near Wall Street and he worked there. That's when we met. SC: How did you meet? AD: She brought me lunch. DD: I was working and I would catch the train-- AD: Everybody used to meet for breakfast in the morning, and we would wait for the train. If you're lucky you got the express and it headed to New York quick. If not, you'd get the local. DD: That's where we met. AR: And that is where I met so many other people. SC: How old were both of you? DD: I was 18 ; Arnold had to be 22. We were married the following year and he was 24. SC: So did you have any other jobs besides the grocery store and the sponge company? DD: Yes he did. He got a job when we got married, within a year I was pregnant. He quit the sponge company because they wanted him to travel and he didn't want to be on the road. So, he got a job at the post office. He worked nights. And then he got a job ; he opened up a fruit store. I had a girlfriend whose brother was in that business and they went out together. AD: 23rd Street, Jewish neighborhood. DD: One day, I was pregnant and went down to keep him company, and a woman came into the store and she said to him, check the melons. AD: She wanted a super ripe melon. DD: He went into the back room and brought it out to her. I said what are you doing? He said I took it to the ripening room. He took a hammer and hit it. AD: That was on Avenue J, Ocean Avenue. You got the train coming to New York. DD: And then my father was a contractor. He made ladies blouses and clothes. He needed help in the place, so Arnold came down and worked for him. SC: In Pennsylvania? DD: We were in Brooklyn and my father had two shops there. But then he went bankrupt. AD: He had another partner that didn't want to work, so I figured that wasn't going to work for me so I got another job. I had to work in the Bronx. From the Bronx, I moved to Pennsylvania. I had another job there. DD: Before he worked for my father, he worked for a dress manufacturer, children's communion dresses. Do you want to hear a story? SC: Absolutely. DD: He was selling, a very young guy was selling, and he wanted to have breakfast in this restaurant and there was an empty seat next to this woman. He sits down next to her and they start talking. "What do you do?" He says he is selling and has to meet with this woman, and it's going to be really hard to get an order and he really needs an order. AD: She happened to be the woman I had to see. She said come upstairs ; I'm the woman. She was tough because she bought for all the stores ; she was a head buyer. Just like dumb luck, I hit the right button and it came out well. DD: He got a big order, and then when the order came into the manufacturers house, the manufacturer didn't like her. He told him the hell with her I'm not shipping out. AD: He always used to haggle with them and she said, "you don't like it, you don't get the order." So he said I quit, leave it alone. It was a big order. DD: It was a big order and he worked on commission so at lunchtime he went down and got on the phone and he tried to hide his voice and he threatened them. He said you better send the merchandise in or I'm going to report you to the Business Bureau. He came back and the place was bustling getting ready to ship, because he was working on commission. AD: Children's dresses and communion dresses. DD: Then I worked at 498 7th Avenue. I worked for a buying house and that whole building, there were manufacturers in there. AD: The garment industry. DD: He got a job with one guy and he did well and left him and referenced and went to the next and got a job with the next guy. One year we had to fill out two pages of employment for the IRS. He kept changing. And then my father said, come on and work for me. SC: Were these contractors in these years that you were working for? DD: They were manufacturers. In those days they were all manufacturers. There was no such thing as contractors. AD: Actually, the definition of a manufacturer is they did not have salespeople. The salespeople would get the merchandise. Sometimes it was a combination ; sometimes the manufacturer did have people who would sell for them. DD: The difference between a manufacturer and a contractor. A manufacturer buys the fabric, sells the fabric, and gets the fabric, designs it. A contractor sews. SC: So there wasn't a differentiation back then? DD: In the first early days, there was no such thing as a contractor. Everybody was a manufacturer. Everybody manufactured. Then, they found out that it would be more profitable for them if they had somebody do all the sewing and they didn't have the headaches of the workers, and the labor force and so on. They would farm it out to someone else and say, "here is my fabric, and here is the pattern." Some places did the cutting. Isn't that right? AD: Yes, some would cut for the manufacturer and give it to the contractors, who didn't have cutters in their employment. DD: Yes, some contractors had cutters and some contractors did not have cutters. So it was all kinds of what the manufacturer wants from you. One contractor would go into the market and get many manufacturers to work for. He didn't work for one. It was possible he worked for more than one. AD: He would cut the goods for one manufacturer and ship it to different factories. Factories were big ; they would probably hire 30 to 40 people for the sewing machines to sew. They didn't do any cutting. But then as they expanded, the factories got bigger and they did their own cutting, their own sewing, and then they started shipping to stores and what not. DD: In fact, Arnold eventually became a contractor. They would cut and if there was any fabric leftover, they would make what they call overcuts. And they would sell it themselves to make some pocket money. That's how that market came about. You know, discounted clothes. Because the contractors, whatever excess they had, they would sell. SC: Outlets? DD: Well the factories, they would open up the door and you could come in and buy a couple of shirts. I remember one woman came in, she was a very fancy lady, and she looked at the label and she didn't like the label. So Arnold said to her, "where do you usually shop?" She shopped in Saks Fifth. So he went back and took a label and put it on the blouse. She was very happy. Then there was another industry, a trucking industry that just-- AD: It was interstate trucking ; they controlled all the trucking. A certain element that controlled it. A certain element. They would deliver the goods to the contractors. They would deliver it one day then ship it back at night and pick up the finished garment and bring it back to the manufacturer. The manufacturer shipped it. DD: That element was more controlled by . . . SC: So it was a different ethnicity? DD: Yes. SC: This was so helpful to me, because we had been talking around sort of how the process changed over time. AD: Whom have you been interviewing besides me? GE: Like Milton Sheftel, Irwin Salitsky. AD: (inaudible). There was ILG, International Ladies Garments. Sheftel was the Amalg-- GE: I don't think he was either because he did the rags. SC: But since we talked with you the first time, we have been asking people, were they involved with the manufacturers. So thank you. DD: And then after, there were so many contractors spread out in Pennsylvania. They all ran to Pennsylvania because the unions. The manufacturers were unionized in Manhattan. The contractors were just mom and pop opening up a shop with sewing machines and they started sewing. AD: Then they start to organize the workers. So then the factories became organized. Some ran away, some went from the North to the South, where unions weren't accepted at that time. Eventually they did. Then the imports started coming when the manufacturers found it was cheaper to have goods made overseas. Then that's how it started expanding from overseas to America. DD: When they had all the contractors that started, then they realized that they needed a voice to speak as one. So there were four hundred members at one time. Instead of each one making a contract with Joe for a dollar and this one for 50 cents, they had one voice and spoke in unison. AD: The unions started to organize the workers. Once they organized the workers, they had the manufacturers by the you know what, because if they didn't become a union shop, they couldn't get their goods made. It was always a fight between non-union and union. The shirt companies were in the union. They were in the amalgamated union, the dress and ladies sportswear and stuff like that. That's the type of merchandise. And they were in the International Ladies Garment. DD: The dresses I think also were Amalgamated, weren't they? AD: They were mixed. DD: And what had happened was, when they formed the Atlantic Apparel Contractors Association, and then they had Arnold be the spokesperson for the contractors. AD: We joined the association and then together we were able to get a better contract. Then we got involved with the trucking industry, which were our partners at that time. Certain element and what not. DD: Not only were they able to speak to the union as one voice, but if you had a manufacturer and if you were the contractor, and your manufacturer decided he didn't want to pay you, then he would be the one that would go into the manufacturer. The manufacturer would say, oh they sewed all the pockets on inside-out. AD: They would use an excuse. DD: Or put the wrong color buttons, or whatever they could to get out of paying the contractor. Then he would negotiate between the manufacturer and that particular contractor. So they were the negotiating factor for the contractors in this area in Pennsylvania. AD: Well we spread out. We started from New York, in Brooklyn, and Jersey. When they started going to Pennsylvania, they were running away from the unions. Eventually, the unions caught up. They got to the contractors through the manufacturer. Once the manufacturer was organized, either they came to union shops, or they wouldn't get the work. SC: So do you have any memories of those early years and then we'll switch over to the business side. AD: What's that? SC: Do you have memories of your early years in the business and your life? Just in general, any stories? AD: I got a job with her father in her father's- no, that was-- I got a job working for a manufacturer, then I met her father who worked for a children's dress manufacturer. That's how he became organized. At first they weren't organized, then he became organized. Then I met Dolores somehow or other. We met on a train going into New York. One thing led to another and we started dating and got married. Her father had a children's dress factory. SC: What was the name of the dress factory and the children's goods? AD: I'm trying to think of what it was. DD: I too don't remember my father's business, what it was. It was located in Brooklyn and he worked for a company by the name of Judy Kent. AD: They were amalgamated. DD: They made children's, when I say children's, I'm talking about 1 year olds, 2 year olds. They made little skirts and blouses like doll clothes. I remember my daughter was born then and he brought home a little skirt, all accordion pleating and little blouses. That was my father. Judy Kent wanted my father to move to Pennsylvania because that was a trend. My father was in Brooklyn. His factories were in Brooklyn and they wanted my father to move to Pennsylvania. And my father said, "Pennsylvania?" AD: They wanted to run away from that time. The unions weren't organized yet in Pennsylvania. So one thing led to another then eventually we moved. DD: So they moved- So my father wouldn't go and that was his demise. My father went bankrupt, and he lost his business. Arnold was looking for work and knowing that he came from a small community, I suggested that we make the move anywhere out of New York, because I felt that New York was not the place for us. In fact, I suggested we go to Japan. At that time because that was after the war and the Japanese were starting their needle trade and they were advertising for people. We were young ; I said why don't we go. He said you have to be crazy ; I'm not going to Japan. I said we have a ten-year plan. He said no, no. I'll look for a job out of New York. We looked in the papers and there was a job in Schuylkill Haven in a lingerie firm and he came out and he called me up. He said they'll give me the job, I have a job, but they won't give me a contract. What shall I do? I said take the job, because you're so terrific that we'll be okay there. So that's how we came here. AD: Manufacturers didn't want to commit themselves because they were still running away from the union. So one thing led to another... So I worked there during the week and came home on weekends. Then enough was enough, either you move-- DD: Well I was pregnant with our second child, and I didn't want to make the move until I had the baby. So he would commute--for a year he commuted, and then- AD: Friday afternoon I would catch the bus and come home and then to get back to the factory I would go back late Sunday evening to open up the factory early Monday morning to make sure they got started properly. I lived at the YMCA, 5 dollars or 6 dollars a week. It was a different type of living. I met a lot of non-Jews, as I got involved with the community. SC: And that was here already in Pottsville? DD: He was here in Pottsville ; he lived in Pottsville. The job was in Schuylkill Haven which is just a little town nearby and he lived at the Y. He ate at the local restaurant where he met the Jewish people. He had friends here before I came, he had made some acquaintances. AD: It made it easier on her. SC: About what year was that? DD: [19]55. That was 1955. We didn't have any money and my girlfriend's father was the head of the International Jewish Association, the union. He knew that we were moving and he knew that we didn't have any funds, so he gave us $500 to buy a stove and a refrigerator and to help with the down payment on our house. So we took the kids, loaded the car up and drove here, and we bought this house. Not this house, we bought a house on Howard Avenue. That's where we lived. He worked two shifts, day shift and night shift. AD: And weekends. Seven days a week I was working. DD: He's a hard worker. SC: At the same place? DD: He was the manager of that particular factory and so he had a day shift and a night shift. AD: During the Christmas season, I got a job with the government working at the post office. That's when we lived in Brooklyn. SC: You are a hard worker. And that gives me shivers because that is the American dream. You come here and someone helps you out and you get started from nothing. AD: What happened to your first interview? Did you lose the papers? GE: What happened was we still had it on the computer, on the video, and it got corrupted, it got bad. DD: This man, his name was Irwin Horowitz, lent us $500 and we paid him back slowly but surely. Many years later, we were at a function and he said to Arnold and said I want to show you something. He pulled out the last letter that we wrote him thanking him. He carried it around in his pocket. He says you have no idea, in my position, how many people I have helped out during my lifetime. And nobody has ever thanked me or paid me back. And he carried it in his wallet, this letter. And we were well advanced already in years already when this happened. SC: We didn't hear this story before, so this is beautiful. DD: That's how we were able to get to Pottsville, because my father was bankrupt. He didn't have any money to help us out, and we didn't have any other way of making the means. They weren't going to pay for setting up our house. But they did pay for the movers to get to Pennsylvania. That's how we ended up in Pottsville. Then, he had the business, he was a manager for many years, and then they wanted to sell it. GE: About how many years? 10? 15? DD: I would say less than that. And then he bought the factory and he ran it for a long time. AD: It was a union factory. We moved to Schuylkill Haven, there weren't any shops there. I was the first union shop that came to that area, which the other manufacturers and others didn't enjoy that particularly because they knew sooner or later they would get organized with the union. DD: And you were the first one that hired black employees. [switches tape] SC: Today is June 16, 2014 ; interview with the Delins. GE: So we were talking about Ethel Maid, and Arnold, do you want to just tell us a little bit about that business in terms of the products ; what kind of products you had made? AD: Ethel Maid, when the non-Jewish people died, they didn't bury them in a tallis...and Ethel Maid made shrouds, they made men's suits, with a worn-seam in the back, and everything else. And Jewish people, actually, you weren't supposed to bury them in suits. DD: I confused you because Ethel Maid was a shroud company. That was above the factory where... AD: They made burial gowns. DD: ...he worked. I gave you the wrong name. GE: Oh, oh, oh. Do you remember what was the name of the factory where you managed? AD: Peekaboo. That was mine. DD: What was the name of the factory that hired you, do you remember their name? The one that hired you, the lingerie firm that hired you? -- It will come to you. GE: So Peekaboo, is that what you named it? AD: The name of the company, I named it. GE: Okay, and tell us about the kinds of products you made there. AD: We made ladies lingerie. Like petticoats, slips. DD: And then you made blouses. AD: Then they switched to blouses, ladies blouses, children's blouses. DD: When he would go into the market, he would see, he would go to the manufacturers, and he would try to sign up any manufacturer to see what they needed, what he could sew-- GE: What he could sew and what they needed. DD: Right, so it would be lingerie, it would be blouses. GE: Okay, and your workers were flexible enough that you were able to do that. AD: Well a sewer was a sewer. We trained, we had a forelady. Different products had different types of sewing. And fabric was different also. So you had to have different equipment-- DD: Arnold, wasn't the lingerie company called Marvel Made? AD: Ethel Maid. DD: No, underneath called Marvel Made was a lingerie company, Ethel Maid was upstairs? AD: No, Ethel Maid owned the building. She was-- Marvel Made was a manufacturer at the time. DD: Yeah, for the lingerie. Marvel Made was the name of the company. GE: Okay, and when you owned it, about how many people worked there? AD: I had about 50 people. 50-60 people. And I worked a day shift and a night shift. GE: And were most of the workers - what kind of workers? So you had most were sewers, and what other kinds of functions? AD: Well I had- I was fortunate enough to have a man come in and we would get the piece goods, he would cut the fabric into the patterns. The manufacturer would send us the piece goods with a pattern, what he wanted to be made, and we'd spread the goods and he'd cut it out and we would give it over to the sewers. GE: Okay, and I think you had talked now...Want to tell us a little more about excess? Were you able to do much excess producing? AD: No, I usually worked for one manufacturer, and if he couldn't give me enough work, sometimes we would take work from another manufacturer as a fill in. GE: Right, right, but separately- okay, so one thing is who is your main manufacturer? AD: Oh, I don't remember that. GE: Okay, okay, there were many, a long time ago. And you had mentioned before about with the production, that one thing you would try to do is that once you met that amount that you needed to get from that material- the overcuts, right. AD: They would ship in the goods. They would send us in an order, spread so many yards of goods, sometimes with piece goods, you'd have extra yardage. Sometimes the manufacturer said hey cut it all or they'd say hold it for another cutting later on. So you had to account for the piece goods. Sometimes it's the manufacturer, some would keep the excess piece goods for themselves and not report it. I'd report it as it was. GE: Okay okay, so you really didn't have, really didn't do that, okay. And do you want to tell us about your relationship with your employees? AD: They worked for me. I mean either they produced or they didn't produce. We had a good relationship. There were mostly non-Jewish people, all non-Jewish. Once in a while, you might have someone Jewish who was a sewer. We had a good relationship, I mean, once you get organized with the union, you follow the union contract and that was it. GE: And I think you said that you were the first one locally to hire someone who was not white, a Black person. AD: Yes, that came and I had one working for me. She was an excellent worker, and she had a couple of- her sister moved to the area and brought her friend along, and one became three. And some of my workers were not too happy because I hired a black person. But they got along once they got to know them, they were excellent workers and they produced, broke the ice so to speak. And another factory hired a black--there weren't that many blacks in the Lehigh area. DD: Very few black families. AD: In the first place, there wasn't any place for them to be, they were very isolated. SC: Did anyone ever talk about from the coal regions the fact that some of the groups were angry about African Americans because of some of the strikes because they were strike-brokers? AD: No. SC: That was a tangent, but its Labor History Sue asking questions. AD: No. Each of the coal industry labor was different to the other manufacturers in the fabric industry. Each one had their own. GE: While you were in the business, as the years went on, because it was going South, because a lot of the time...was it getting harder and harder? AD: As the unions started organizing the factories, they couldn't compete so the manufacturer, who was still non-union, saw you were not giving goods to those who were not union-shop, he started opening up shops down South. And there's one open, another followed, followed, and then it was a lot of non-union manufacturers down South, and that's how a lot of the work fell to the way, from the union shops to the non-union shops. DD: The trend was after they saturated Pennsylvania, and then- with non-union shops, then when the union came in to organize them, now the manufacturers had to look for another way out, so they started going down South where there weren't any non-union shops. AD: New England had a lot of union shops, and everyone filtered like she just said, they filtered away from the North to the South. GE: Right, right. The manufacturers that you produced for, were they always union? AD: To have a union shop, it had to be union manufacturers. GE: Okay, and as the years went on, I guess you opened it in the '60s, '70s, something like that? Did it start becoming, was it noticeably that it was harder and harder each year to get enough business? AD: We were able to get the business, even some of the non-union manufacturers, when they wanted--if you made a good quality garment, they would pay the price. They were flexible. GE: Right, okay, so-- AD: Actually, it all filtered away. GE: Okay, so you're saying, that happened over a long period of time? AD: Half a dozen years or so. DD: It's happened little by little. What happened was, I would say in the '60s, things started going bad. Things would get harder and harder. You would go in looking for work and couldn't find work and the contractors are hustling in the city looking for work. AD: You'd go into New York if you needed work and you would take it at a lower price, if you didn't need work, either they would pay you or you didn't take it. If you produced a good garment, then you had a relationship with the manufacturer. Because the manufacturer didn't have the solace. He didn't want to get involved with the union, so he had factories like myself. Ship the piece goods in, we cut the garments, we cut the fabric up and everything else, ship the finished garments to the manufacturer. DD: It got really bad when they started shipping overseas. GE: That was the '70s then, correct? DD: Yeah, and when they moved and started working overseas that's when it really got bad and that's when they didn't, the manufacturers no longer made the fabric here. They bought the fabric overseas, had the fabric shipped to a factory overseas, had it cut, and then they would ship them the finished products. GE: The whole operation-- DD: The whole operation was overseas. So the people that made the machines didn't have any business. The people that made the cloth didn't have any people in it. The people that made the cotton didn't have any business. The thread [manufacturers] didn't have any business. And so, it started breaking down, all the industries that supported this one product, they started getting everything made overseas, and then the manufacturers would then have a representative that would fly over their quality control man, we would call him, that would fly overseas to make sure things were the way that they hoped they would be. GE: Right, right. The trade association, what were the years of your prime involvement? When you were president. Was that around-- DD: The '70s? Late '60s, early '70s. The guy that started with the association, his name was-- It's on the tip of my tongue. AD: What happened to all of the notes from before? DD: They're gone, honey. GE: We do have some of the notes, so we do have some of the notes, but we just lost the actual interview. SC: And we want you in the archives. DD: Mikus. Mikus started with the association, didn't he? AD: Michus started with the union, and he represented the union at that time, then he broke away and then he started representing the contractors. DD: He worked with the association. Arnold was on the board of the association, being a contractor, he was part of the board. And then Mikus always would call on Arnold: could you do this for me, could you do that for me? And Arnold became his right hand man. And then when Mikus died, the board said, how about you take over. GE: And at that point, did you sell the factory? AD: No, I kept it. DD: He kept the factory, and my son went into the factory. GE: Okay, okay, so that's Scott? DD: Scott. GE: Okay, and then Scott started running the factory. DD: Scott started running the factory. Scott went to Textile Institution, so he had a background, and he was brought up in the factory, and he had a background of what it was about. But things started going really bad, and all the factories were closing up one after the other. AD: You couldn't compete with the union. GE: Right, right. DD: They couldn't compete with overseas. And so, we had to close up ours. AD: The facts are, not that you couldn't compete with the union, it was that you couldn't compete overseas. It was cheaper there. GE: Right. And about how long, did that- from the time Scott- he became president of the association-- DD: And he still had the factory, he was still running the factory at the same time. Scott, I don't remember. He got out of college, he had a job. And then all of a sudden, it was too much. He [Arnold] couldn't do both, so Scott came in. And I don't remember-- AD: Scott only worked a couple of years, he wanted to get into business for himself. DD: Five years maybe. GE: And I am assuming when Arnold was president of the association, that was a job-- DD: Oh, yeah. It was a full time paying job. That's why he just couldn't handle both. He was traveling all over. He was going into Harrisburg, making presentations. GE: Right. Because they were basically also, besides representing, they were also trying to lobby. DD: Yes, they were lobbying. They spent a lot of time lobbying-- AD: In Washington. DD: He was in Washington a lot. He tried to stop exports, and he really tried, but correct me if I'm wrong, Arnold, didn't the union encourage the overseas saying that they should help them out, they're poor nations, and help them out-- AD: At the beginning, the union didn't fight the manufacturers because they figured, well they needed help because they were doing- connected to other industries, in importing and exporting, but then it expanded and-- DD: They got a commission. The union got a percentage on every piece of fabric that came into the United States. AD: No, that's not so. The union didn't get a commission. DD: They got a percentage. The union got a percentage. AD: No, the unions it was a business. They brought it in themselves. Whatever, we're getting this all mixed up, it's ridiculous. SC: You're doing great. And you know what? A lot of this we didn't hear before. AD: What's this? SC: A lot of what you're saying we hadn't heard before. We talked more in some ways about your relationship with your workers, which was wonderful. AD: You've had to have a relationship with your workers if you wanted them to work for you. I mean when the contract came up, I mean that's where they wanted to get more money and everything else, and they didn't want to go work someplace else. GE: Right, right. You know, in Allentown, I know that a lot of the contractors were Jewish. AD: In what? GE: In Allentown, a lot of the contractors were Jewish. How about in this area, in Schuylkill County? AD: Very few, I was one of them--well three or four. GE: Well what kind of ethnicity did the others have? The contractors? AD: I'll tell you what I told you before. In Allentown, they had Amalgamated Union-- DD: No, honey, she wants to know whether they were Italian, Jewish-- GE: Right. AD: Very few Jewish people in this area, in the factories. There were a lot of non-Jewish Protestants and Catholics. GE: Right, but the ones who owned the factories in this area, were they often Italian in this area? AD: They were mostly somewhat Jewish, the ones who owned the factories. DD: When you say this area, what do you mean? GE: Schuylkill. DD: Schuylkill County had a lot of Jewish owners, but if you go up to Windgap, where his office was, they were mainly, I would say, if you look at it, the majority of his contractors were Italian. They came from Windgap, Roseta. AD: All in that area up there. DD: That area there, they were all Italian. AD: And then up in Wilkes Barre, Scranton, they expanded. And up in that neck of the woods, it was a different type of manufacturer. They made ladies dresses up there, they made ladies sportswear up there. They were more unionized up there because of the coal region, they organized a factory there. DD: There were so many Italians in the Association that they thought it was primarily Italian, and we were invited to a dinner, and Arnold got up and in Yiddish he made a prayer. And this one Jewish manufacturer sitting at our table started to laugh. He said, "Boy, for an Italian boy, you really speak good Hebrew." GE: That's funny. I think that's pretty good. I think that's great. I think you gave us really a lot with your business and with things. Do you want to ask them a couple of-- SC: So just a couple of sort of general questions about you. One of them is what do you value most in life? AD: What's this? SC: What do you value most in life? AD: What do I value? Have a good family that you live with, raise your children properly, and everything else. As far as I am concerned, I have children and I come from a Jewish home, and I feel I expect them that when they get older and get married that they will still continue being in a Jewish home. And mixed marriage today is a touchy thing to talk about because a lot of the Jewish families have mixed marriages and visa-versa and whatnot. Sometimes you don't get involved. You know, Allentown has a lot of mixed marriages, New York has a lot of mixed marriages, you stay away from that conversation. I do, anyway. SC: And also, what has made you feel the most creative or fulfilled personally in your life? Has given you that sense of almost artistry in your life or-- AD: I don't understand the question. DD: May I answer for him because he always says this to me. Whenever he gets his monthly check from his pension, and from Social Security, he always says, "See, I provided. I am a good provider, and I did well." And this happens every month. This is what I would say-- SC: That gave you satisfaction, that you provided. AD: Not everybody, people would work, they would get their money from the manufacturers, they get their check and instead of paying payroll, they would go and gamble. You don't go through life that way. Once that happens, you're out of business. GE: And so many families depend on-- AD: Well, so listen, they worked too-- GE: Exactly. AD: They wait for that check, and if they work for a contractor or manufacturer, who somehow or other didn't get their money. If the contractor didn't get their money from the manufacturer during the week, Thursday, you had to prepare the payroll, and you didn't have the check, I would have to run into New York or wherever and make sure I brought a check back with me, otherwise, the girls don't get paid. And luckily I had a good relationship with the bank, they might take work with me and give the payroll out. But then it got to the point where I just couldn't do it anymore. DD: In those days, you didn't have a line of credits like you have now. Your name was your line of credit. So if you go into the bank and Arnold says, "Listen, my check didn't come in, I expect this and that.." So they would then say all right and they would, that would be his line of credit. But in those days, there wasn't a line of credit that you could, it was your name, your reputation. GE: Right, right. SC: And we remember, at least I do especially, I think we've talked about this, first of all, how good it was to interview you first. You really set the stage for us with our other interviews. But also, when you talked about your workers and how you would work around their children coming home from school, and just really how, I mean, the women remember you and talk to you. AD: Well, a small community is different. I think most of the garment factories had a good relationship with their workers. Once the unions get in, naturally the union took control. With the workers, the union stepped in. It's like if people want to work for you, you gotta treat them right. DD: It's a shame that the industry isn't still here because it gave a lot of opportunities to a lot of people who didn't have an education to support their families. And he had, I know that he had women there, their kids would come in in the summer and he would give them jobs as packers and things like that. And one is a dentist today, one of their girls. GE: And I think you're right that almost all of them were small businesses. DD: They were small businesses. GE: And so you see, when you see face to face-- DD: Yeah, then you know what they are going through and there is no secret. You know what's happening. You know, it's a family business. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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00:56:20
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Arnold Delin June 16, 2014
Description
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Arnold Delin talks about how he was raised in Nashua, New Hampshire. After World War II he moved to Brooklyn, worked there and met and married Dolores. A few years later the Delin family moved to Pottsville, PA when Arnold landed a good job in Schuylkill Haven, Pennsylvania as the manager of a lingerie factory. Later, Arnold bought the factory. In the 1970s Arnold became the Executive Director of the Atlantic Apparel Contractors Association. The Association represented the contractors collectively in negotiations with the Union and with manufacturers and heavily lobbied the government on behalf of its members.
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LVTNT-01
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2014-06-16
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Bernie Filler
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-13.xml
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5.4 May 19th, 2014 Bernie and Bunny Filler, May 19th, 2014 LVTNT-13 1:33:24 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Bernie Filler Bunny Filler Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 FillerBernie_Bunny_20140519_revised.mp4 1.0:|17(11)|44(13)|59(11)|80(14)|97(11)|118(4)|135(13)|156(15)|179(15)|202(2)|239(16)|262(3)|281(19)|304(6)|325(10)|344(4)|365(6)|388(7)|421(3)|438(4)|463(15)|488(4)|509(4)|534(11)|549(10)|572(4)|603(4)|624(6)|655(10)|674(14)|697(15)|718(3)|735(11)|754(12)|777(14)|796(6)|823(9)|854(15)|881(9)|904(7)|943(3)|964(5)|979(6)|1002(13)|1027(11)|1056(11)|1079(11)|1110(11)|1131(12)|1154(5)|1179(3)|1210(8)|1235(19)|1260(10)|1283(7)|1304(8)|1329(10)|1348(14)|1373(16)|1402(15)|1425(5)|1450(14)|1475(17)|1498(4)|1519(2)|1546(5)|1571(6)|1598(5)|1617(7)|1638(9)|1663(14)|1688(11)|1709(7)|1738(5)|1761(6)|1782(5)|1819(13)|1840(6)|1871(5)|1896(17)|1917(5)|1948(11)|1977(3)|2010(11)|2037(13)|2062(7)|2087(7)|2114(15)|2151(3)|2178(3)|2201(11)|2226(7)|2259(6)|2264(6) 0 https://youtu.be/pLgMPrpqv1o YouTube video 0 Family History SC: Today is May 19th, 2014, and first interview with Mr. Filler. So I would like you to just go back and talk about your history, your full name, when you were born, where you were from, and then we will go from there. 
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 ; BF: Okay. My full name is Bernard J Filler. I was born in New York City ; I can’t remember which hospital it was in. I was born October 2, 1932, New York Hospital. I lived in the Bronx. 0 632 Early Job History SC: So as far as- Those were all the jobs that you had before you came to the Lehigh Valley?
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 ; BF: No.
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 ; SC: Well tell me more about the jobs that you had.
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 ; BF: I worked for my uncle for about two years. I guess somewhere along the line we got married, and I had a very close friend in FIT. We were very friendly. He had gotten a job in South Carolina and ended up managing three factories there. He called me one day and said how would you like to move to South Carolina?
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 ; GE: And this is what, the 1960s?
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 ; BF: [19]50s. 0 1713 Rosenau Company SC: And Rosenau was R-O-S-E-N-A-U?
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 ; BF: Yes. 
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 ; Bunny: I think it was two N’s. 
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 ; SC: Was it? Yeah, I’ve seen it with two N’s.
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 ; GE: The company that you were with for seven years, was that Cinderella?
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 ; Bunny: That was Rosenau. 
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 ; GE: Rosenau owns it and Cinderella’s just the brand?
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 ; BF: Yeah, Rosenau. 0 2393 What Bernie Manufactured GE: May I just go back a second to make sure I’m clear. So when you went into your own business, tell me what kind of garments were you making again?
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 ; BF: Blouses. 
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 ; GE: Blouses. Anything else or just blouses?
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 ; BF: Just blouses.
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 ; GE: Women’s blouses?
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 ; BF: Women’s blouses. 
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 ; GE: And they were made from what kind of fabric?
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 ; BF: Mostly cotton. 
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 ; GE: Cotton and knits.
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 ; BF: No knits. Knit manufacturers were a different category. 
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 ; Bunny: It was Personal Sports Wear and Breckenridge. 0 2824 Atlantic Apparel Association SC: Did you belong to any of the associations? 
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 ; BF: I belonged to the Atlantic Apparel Association. Which everybody did.
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 ; GE: That was the one with Arnold Delin?
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 ; BF: Yes. When I joined there were about a hundred and some odd members. By the time I left there were maybe 20 left. 
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 ; GE: So by the time you retired, in the late 1990s, this was pretty much gone from the area?
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 ; BF: Yes.
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 ; SC: And that was late. So many people were out way before that. 
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 ; BF: Well, that’s because I was good. 0 2987 Involvement in the Jewish Community GE: Right. Would you like to share- Matt, we’ll ask you if you have any questions. But would you like to share with us a little bit about the Jewish community when you came, both what you came, what it was like, and also what you’ve observed? You’ve been here now I think you said 48 years?
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 ; Bunny: Forty-eight years. But he’s been here longer.
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 ; GE: What has it meant to you being part of the Jewish community here, and what was that like, here in Allentown?
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 ; BF: Well we got married and we wanted to have a family and wanted them to be Jewish. So we decided we would join a synagogue. So I went shopping, and I went to Beth El first and talking to them I found that they were pretty well booked up, and if I joined that synagogue I would have to sit in the back, in a different room in the back for services, for holidays because all the seats, or a good number of the seats belong to old congregants. 
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 ; GE: This was about what year?
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 ; Bunny: 1966-67. 0 3163 Connection Between the Jewish Community and the Garment Industry SC: Do you think there is a reason why people in the Jewish community became involved in the garment industry overall?
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 ; BF: That’s what they were doing when they came from New York. 
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 ; GE: So even let’s say why in New York? In other words, what do you think was the association between Jews and the garment industry?
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 ; BF: Because they couldn’t get jobs in industries. You couldn’t work for GM, you couldn’t work for- so they decided to go into the garment business. And of course they ended up very, very large in the garment business and still are, still are. 0 3521 Inspiration for Life Path Voice: I have a couple of follow up questions going back to your uncle’s factory in New York that you were talking about. Do you feel like your uncle was your biggest inspiration to kind of lead you on the path that you ended up following?
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 ; BF: No. The only inspiration he gave me was he gave me knowledge. My mother said to me, stay with your uncle, some day the business will be yours. He was never married. When he was 55 or 60 years old he got married and married a very wealthy woman and shut the business down. 
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 ; Voice: She shut it down before you had the opportunity to take it over.
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 ; BF: Yes. So I did the right thing. 0 3612 Methods Work—Achieving Efficiency & ; Standardization in the Business BF: My specialty was engineering, time and motion studying piece rates, methods work. I was very, very good at that. 
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 ; GE: Tell us what you mean by methods work.
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 ; BF: Well a girl- somebody came to work for me and I didn’t know if she could sew. She sat down at the machine and I knew exactly how I would tell her to pick up this one and over that one. I knew this. And she sat down and put two pieces together and shook her head no. She did it again and shook her head no. Then she did it the way I would have told her the third time and she shook her head yes. That’s what I did. When you walked into my factory, let's say we had 6 sleeve setters, 6 pocket setters, if you came and you looked at them, all 6 would be doing them exactly the same way. 
 ; 
 ; SC: That’s efficiency.
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 ; GE: Yes, I was going to say. That’s efficiency and standardization. 0 3801 Bernie's Values and Creative Inspirations SC: So my first question is, what has made you feel the most artistic in your life? And I mean that in that sort of metaphoric sense of creativity, completion, you know, sense of satisfaction in your life.
 ; 
 ; BF: Well, my wife's the only one in the family with musical talent, and she inspires me. As a matter of fact, on June 20th, she's going to become a bat mitzvah. And we're looking forward to that. And of course, now my grandchildren inspire me — in very small ways.
 ; 
 ; SC: And what do you value most in life? 
 ; 
 ; BF: Well, other than the work that I did all those years, my family. 0 3863 How the Garment Industry Has Impacted the Allentown & ; Jewish Communities GE: And one other question I was wondering, in terms of the community, 50 years ago, this community had much more industry and small industry. Now there's much, much less of it. How do you think that has impacted the community? The broad community — and actually, the broad community and maybe more specific- and then two things, the broad community and then also how about the Jewish community? Do you think the Jewish community has been impacted by this?
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 ; BF: I don't think so. Because, as I started saying, the Jewish community couldn't do other things. Today they can. So they're not as impacted by not having garment factories.
 ; 
 ; GE: And how about the broad community? Do you think our community just now has other things? Is it in any way been diminished or maybe it's even stronger or better because we don't have those factories? What do you think? Any thoughts?
 ; 
 ; BF: It doesn’t affect me, I don’t think it affects other people. 0 3948 What Was Your Biggest Challenge Professionally? Voice: Aside from having to move around a lot, going to the different factories around the country, what do you feel like your biggest challenge was professionally, aside from that? Like, internally within the factories that you had to work in?
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 ; BF: Well, owning my own business, and being successful, and that's what I was happy to do.
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 ; Bunny: That was your biggest challenge?
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 ; GE: Was that a big challenge because of the risk?
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 ; BF: It was. First thing I had to do when I decided to buy a business was go to the bank and borrow money. I had never done that in my life. And fortunately, my mother, who at that time was in her eighties and living alone in New York — well not exactly alone, she had a boyfriend — but she had some money saved and I said to her I could use some money to buy my business 0 4110 Bringing Methods Work to Portugal BF: One place, okay, one place when I was working in Tennessee, my boss sent me to Portugal for a month. He said there was somebody who wanted to make some housecoats for us, and I said- and he said he doesn't know anything about making housecoats, want to go show him? So I said, okay. And I was there for a month, and I like to say that for a month I was God. Because in Portugal, I walked in, I went to see the sewing company in Lisbon and I said, “I’m going to need to buy some sewing machines.” And so, “What do you need?” And I gave him this list for about 20 machines, and he looked at me and said, “I haven’t got this many machines.” He said, “It'll take me a couple of weeks to get them.” I said okay — I mean, they didn't have it. And you know what a cutting table is? We had a- the factory that I went to, the man was making pillowcases, so his cutting table was about six yards long — you know, pillowcases. And we needed a 14 yard table for the house dresses. So I said, “Okay, we have to buy some lumber. What's the cheapest lumber to buy here?” And they said, “Mahogany!” So we built the mahogany cutting table, probably the only one in the world, and it worked fine. And when I came from New York to go to the factory, I brought a bunch of attachments that you put on the sewing machine. One was a cord piper. 0 4587 Introduction—Bunny (Helen) Filler SC: So would you state your full name, when you were born, and where you grew up? 
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 ; Bunny Filler: Well I’m not gonna tell you when I was born.
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 ; SC: Okay, that’s fine.
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 ; Bunny: My name is Helen Filler, but nobody calls me that and nobody knows me by that name. My name is Bunny. I got that nickname many years ago when I was a camper and it stuck. 0 4627 Bunny's Family History Bunny: My mother and father — my mother's name is Frieda Thelma Kraft, no relation to Kraft Foods unfortunately. My father's name is Julius Alexander. My son is named after him. And my grandparents on my father's side — my paternal grandfather was a Yankee, which is very unusual. He was born here. My paternal grandmother was born in Lithuania and they met here in this country. My paternal grandfather-
 ; 
 ; GE: Do you know any names? So like you're-
 ; 
 ; Bunny: Harry. I'm named after Harry, that’s where Helen came from. Harry, and my grandmother's name was Lena Platt and her family was- wound up in Harrisburg. 
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 ; GE: Okay, and Lena Platt- she was the one, they were from Lithuania. 
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 ; Bunny: She was from Lithuania originally, yeah. 0 5055 Education and Career in Early Childhood Education SC: So where have you worked in your life?
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 ; Bunny: Well, I went to, I went to P.S. 11, went to William Howard Taft High School, and then I went to Boston University. And I became an early childhood- I was an early childhood major, and I taught kindergarten in New York for five years. And then my Prince Charming came and we got married, and we came to- and he helped me find a job here. He called places for me because I was still in New York, and I got a job in the Allentown School District. Otis Rothenberg I think interviewed me and he wanted to give me a first-grade position, and I looked at him square in the eyes — I don't know how I got the nerve — and I said, “I'm going to be a brand new bride. I don't know a soul in Allentown. I don't know anything. But I am a wonderful kindergarten teacher, and I've been doing it for years. I really don't want something new.” He went and looked up something. He said, “Fine, you can teach kindergarten at Lehigh Parkway.” 0 5264 "Mr. Bunny"—Bernie's Contributions to the Jewish Community Center & ; Jewish Day School Bunny: My husband supported me three-hundred percent. He loved the fact that I was there. He came to every program I ever did. He made the costumes, talking about his factory, he made all our costumes for us. We used to do Purim and we used to do parody shows. And he did Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. He did the music, really did all of it. He made all the costumes for us. He's been a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful husband. He really has been, I’m very lucky.
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 ; SC: And the Center has been so successful.
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 ; Bunny: Excuse me?
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 ; SC: It's so successful. 
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 ; Bunny: Yeah, it was, it was really good.
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 ; BF: As a result of her teaching there, to this day, I'm still- she used to introduce me to her children. And to this day now, because the parents are now grandparents, they still call me “Mr. Bunny.” 0 5349 Changes in the Landscape and People of Allentown SC: How do you see the community, the wider community and the Jewish community, changing over time? And Allentown, perhaps? 
 ; 
 ; Bunny: Well Allentown has grown tremendously. When we first came here, I had to go down to King of Prussia- not King of Prussia, Plymouth Meeting to buy clothes for my little boy. I mean, there was nothing — there were two shops here, the Children’s Shop and I think Clymer’s Carousel. And there was nothing else, there was no mall, there was nothing. So it's grown tremendously that way. You know, I've seen a lot of people coming in from the area, a lot of transplants here. So that's changed. How do I see the whole community? It's not just the community, it's society. Everything is very different today. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time. I think, you know, we've become a little bit too casual and a little bit too disrespectful. The kids, adults as well. I saw it in parents as well as children. 0 5430 Bunny's Values and Creative Inspirations SC: So what do you value in life? This is going to beep soon, that’s why I…
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 ; Bunny: What do I value in life? What Bernie said, I mean, I value my family, my husband first and foremost, my children, my grandchildren, my synagogue that I have seen growing now. We've been through some very hard times and it's now coming back thanks to a wonderful, wonderful rabbi. And I just you know, I just think it's really, really important. It's been our social life. And I value my friendships. As he said, my synagogue has been such an integral part of my life, all of a sudden at this old age, I decided I was going to become a Bat mitzvah all by myself. No classes, no nobody else, just me. And it's been a very, very surreal but incredibly fulfilling experience. I never would have dreamed this. And I never belonged to a synagogue growing up. Nothing. So that makes it even more special for me. It really does. 
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 ; SC: And what makes you feel the most creative, artistic, satisfied? I mean, I think you sort of said that, but anything else?
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 ; Bunny: I mean, I don't look at myself as a creative individual. I don't- I mean I don’t-, well when I think of creativity, you know, I think of artistic, making things, and coming up with all these wonderful ideas. Sometimes I am, I gave him the most wonderful 80th birthday party, and I'm not patting myself on the back. We did it together and it was fabulous, fabulous. 0 MovingImage Bernie Filler talks about how he grew up in the Bronx, worked part-time for his uncle who was in the textile business and attended FIT after high school. After graduating and being in the service, Bernie worked as a manager and an engineer at several large apparel factories, first in the South, then in Pennsylvania, before buying his own factory in Palmerton, PA. At the time, the factory made women’s blouses. After a while, Bernie became a subcontractor to Tama Manufacturing making pants for Alfred Dunner. Bernie worked with Tama Manufacturing making pants for Alfred Dunner until Bernie retired in the late 1990s.
 ; 
 ; Bunny Filler talks about her childhood growing up in the Bronx, attending Boston University, teaching kindergarten in New York and then meeting her “Prince Charming” (Bernie) and coming to Allentown. When Bunny’s younger child was a toddler, Bunny began a music program at the JCC Nursery School and later at the Jewish Day School. A few years later, Bunny began a pre-kindergarten program at the Jewish Day School, which she taught for twenty-seven years.
 ; Interview with Bernie Filler, May 19th, 2014 GAIL EISENBERG: Well I can see pictures behind you. SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is May 19th, 2014, and first interview with Mr. Filler. So I would like you to just go back and talk about your history, your full name, when you were born, where you were from, and then we will go from there. BERNIE FILLER: Okay. My full name is Bernard J Filler. I was born in New York City ; I can't remember which hospital it was in. I was born October 2, 1932, New York Hospital. I lived in the Bronx. SC: Do you remember the address where you grew up? BF: Something Fox Street. SC: Fox Street, okay, yes. So can you talk a little bit about your education, from the time you were a small child all the way through? BF: Okay, my secular -- you don't want my religious background, do you? SC: Oh that's fine. Yes. BF: I can give that too. It's not very large. I went to elementary school and junior high school in the Bronx and-- GE: What was the name of the schools? SC: It's okay. BUNNY FILLER: He went to a lot of schools. BF: I went to a lot of schools. GE: Okay, that's fine. BF: And then when I started to go to high school, I took a test for Stuyvesant High School and I went to Stuyvesant. And from Stuyvesant High School I went to the Fashion Institute of Technology. That was a two-year course. I studied management. In that class I also learned time study and motion study and how to sew cloth onto my pants. We were taking sewing lessons and learned all about sewing machines and attachments that went on sewing machines and what they did. So we got a real, real serious in-the-industry education. Then I was- was- went to work for my uncle who was in the dress business. The name of his business was Saint James Junior Company, which was in- on 35th Street and 7th Avenue, New York. SC: How old were you then? BF: I started working for him when I was 16 after school and on weekends. I worked for him for two years full time after school. No, no I was going to FIT, I still worked for him part time. When I graduated from FIT, it was about less than a year and I was drafted. GE: And this was about what year when you were drafted? BF: [19]48, maybe. I graduated high school in '48, so probably 1950. SC: Did you see active service anywhere overseas? BF: No. No. I was drafted during the Korean War and, as a matter of fact, I took my basic training in Indiantown Gap here, and I was sent to Germany and I spent two years in Munich. I was a- I got an office job while I was in the army, I was a company clerk, and I took care of all the records for service company. SC: That sounds like a good job in the service. BF: And I was in Munich for- Oh. When I was in elementary school, everyone had to go to the Glee Club and be tested for their- what type of voice they had, tenures, [etc.]. So everybody would sing and the teacher would tell them what their category was. So I sang and she said you're a listener. So I have been a listener my whole life. When I was in the army, some place along the line they put up a bulletin board, notice, that the local chaplain wanted to put a choir together for the high holidays. And we were going to Berchtesgaden in the German Alps for three days to rehearse. So I signed up and we ended up standing on- in the Bavarian Alps looking at the Swiss Alps and the Italian Alps, a magnificent place. They brought along a little portable organ that you pumped, and they handed out some- handed out song sheets and I was standing right behind him and he was right behind the organist. And he taps her shoulder, she starts playing, we start singing, in about 10 seconds he taps her shoulder, says, "Wait a minute," and turns around, looks at me, and says, "Would you mind restricting yourself to the 'amens'?" So I guess I couldn't sing. So everything- that was fine, and then I was sent home and I went to work for my uncle. And I worked for him for 2 or 3 years, I guess, tw2o years, 2 or 3, and I did everything. I worked with the pattern makers, I worked with the cutters, I worked with the spreaders, I did spreading and cutting, I worked in the showroom and took care of customers, I bought notions, buttons, and laces and stuff, a little bit of fabric, not very much. And at the end of the day, after all the customers had came in and bought all their dresses, I worked at night and I packed all the dresses up and shipped them. So I really had a complete knowledge. One- Some place along the line, my uncle opened a small factory. We didn't have a factory where we were in Saint James. He opened up a small sewing room on 9th Avenue at 35th Street. So I went there and I ran that, I ran that for a year. We had about thirty-five operators, four pressers, and again, my job was to run that. At the end of the day I took the push buggies and I loaded the finished garments onto the push buggies, and I walked them from 9th Avenue to 7th Avenue into the stockroom. And if it was necessary, I stayed and I packed them. I did everything. So when I got into the business, there was nothing anybody could pull over my eyes because I knew everything. SC: Could we back up a little now and talk a little bit about your family background, as far back- names, dates, occupations, as far back as you know on each side of your family? BF: Okay. My mother and father were both born in the United States. My mother was a bookkeeper most of her life. She was separated from my father, and she was the breadwinner in the family. And she always worked as a bookkeeper. My father had some odd jobs and then was in ill health for a long time, and then he worked for my uncle in the cutting room. He was also a short order cook. He worked in the little restaurants that were in lobbies of the buildings in Manhattan. And he'd work at them and prepare food. And then he passed away at a young age, he was in his 40s when he passed away. SC: What was his name and do you know about when he was born? GE: So first what was both your parents', what were their names? BF: My father's name was Max and my mother's name was Elizabeth. SC: Do you know her maiden name? BF: Hoffman. Yes. We found out when she passed away, and we got her birth certificate. She passed away in her 80s, and everybody called her Elizabeth or Betty. We found out her name was Lena. SC: Where was her family from? BF: Eastern Europe. My father's family, who's from Germany, my grandmother lived in New York, his mother. And my mother's mother lived in the Bronx. I never met my two grandfathers. SC: Do you know, do you have any idea of what the families did when they were in Europe? What occupations they had? BF: No. No. I know what some cousins did but I don't know about my father. SC: Was anyone else in the garment industry at all that you know of, other than your uncle? BF: No. Just him. GE: And your uncle, is that your father's brother? BF: Yes. SC: What was his name? BF: James. Jimmy. SC: Jimmy -- Filler? BF: Filler. SC: So as far as- Those were all the jobs that you had before you came to the Lehigh Valley? BF: No. SC: Well tell me more about the jobs that you had. BF: I worked for my uncle for about two years. I guess somewhere along the line we got married, and I had a very close friend in FIT. We were very friendly. He had gotten a job in South Carolina and ended up managing three factories there. He called me one day and said how would you like to move to South Carolina? GE: And this is what, the 1960s? BF: [19]50s. Probably in '54 or '55. And we thought about it and she wasn't thrilled but we said it's a good opportunity, so we- No, we weren't married. BUNNY: We weren't married. BF: We weren't married. So I went to South Carolina and we worked in Allendale, South Carolina. I was there for three years- maybe four, five years and I was the lead company engineer. And the last year I was there, I managed one of the three factories in Bamberg, South Carolina. And one day, somebody came in -- the owners of the business lived in New York, and they called us and they said they are coming down and some people are coming from Tennessee, they would like to look at our business to see if they want to buy it. So we met all of them and obviously the head manager from the company in New York was talking and he was a very, very tough businessman. And he came to see my factory in Bamberg. We had a beautiful, beautiful lawn, beautiful shrubbery and flowering and everything else. I said to him, we are very proud of our yard and he looked at me and said how many dozens a day do you get from your yard? We knew who we were doing business with. And they bought the company. We couldn't understand why they wanted our dress company that was making house dresses. They were in the shirt business. We said why are they buying our company. At the time I was 25. My friend was 2 years older than me, he was 27. I had an assistant from FIT who was 23. Our two plant managers were in their mid-twenties besides myself and within three months we were all in Tennessee. They bought the company for us. And my friend ended up being CEO for them, and went on to a larger company and became the CEO there. And I did very well also. Not like him, but I did very well. SC: When he was the CEO of another company, do you remember any of those company names? You don't have to. BF: I'll try to remember the name of the company in [inaudible]. No, I can't remember. SC: So you were working together still? BF: Yes. SC: So they just moved it from the Carolinas to Tennessee? BF: Not the business, just us. Just the personnel. SC: Just you. Oh my gosh. BF: Within a couple of months we were running their business. SC: Oh okay, wow. BF: I was there for four and a half years and I was dating some girls in South Carolina and Tennessee and I finally rented an apartment in Nashville, Tennessee because I- and I had a trailer. The reason I had a trailer is because all of the- we had 10 factories in Tennessee and they all had trailer hookups behind them. So I ended up being a "consulting engineer" for the company and I would go to a factory for 2 or 3 months and do whatever I had to do. I trained a couple of people who were working with me to go with me. So we would go into the factory and we'd work on their make up pay. You don't know what make up pay is, so I'll explain it to you. If the minimum wage was $5, and our employees are on piece rate--they get paid by the piece--and the minimum wage was $6, if they only made $5, we had to make up the difference between the wages, the current wage- the current wage and what they were earning. At the time they decided to make me the internal engineer, we had $6 million in make up pay. And what we did is, one of the fellas, the other- the other man that came from South Carolina, he was probably the best sewing machine operator I ever saw in my whole life. He had one leg and he could sew anything. So he came with me and the third fellow he couldn't sew, but we decided we were gonna train--I went to the factory first--and I decided what needed to be worked on the most. So I decided side closing, sleeve setting, trimming, and examining. So Martin, who couldn't sew, we put him in trimming and examining. And I took side closing and Tom did sleeve setting. And we went to another factory. I looked at the factory first and said basically, and every factory you go to, everyone does it kind of the same way. Not necessarily the same in another factory, but we had in that factory we had fifty side closers. It was big, 1200 employees. So I did the side closing and Tom did the sleeve setting. So I go in and I pick out one of the ladies who looked like she was in charge. She was a little older than most of them and she seemed very strong so I went over and said, "I'm going to work with you a little bit." Oh first before that I worked three weeks at one of our other factories side closing. So I could side close like any experienced operator. I started telling her, you're stopping after one inch, then you sew four inches, then you go to the sleeve and you make three more stops to the top of the underarm. She said yeah. I said why don't you do all of that in two stops. She said, :I can't do that." I said yes you can. "I can't do that." I said well you can. She said, "You're so smart, why don't you do it?" That's what you wait for. And I sat down and did exactly what I was telling her to do, two stops, at full speed. And I did three of four garments so it wasn't just one garment. I said do you think you can try that? "... I'll try." She tried and once you get one, the rest were easy. And we did things like drilling a hole in the machine top for an extra needle so they wouldn't have to call for a needle when their needle broke. We engineered it to the end. GE: So a lot of productivity improvements. BF: Yeah. So we ended up working in three factories and then I decided I had enough and I'll tell you why. But we saved three million dollars in makeup pay and in three years we did it. SC: So this was- These factories were all sort of overseen by the investors? BF: No no. SC: No. You owned all of the, all three? BF: The company in Tennessee owned all three and I was an employee. GE: He was an employee. SC: That's what I meant. BF: My friend Howard was the general manager. SC: He was a general manager, but there were people that owned those factories. BF: Right. And because of all that staying, I decided to get an apartment in Murfreesboro. That's where I lived, where my trailer was stationed. So I went to Nashville to Percy Cohen's Furniture Company and I go in and who takes care of me, Mrs. Cohen. I was I think 26 or 27 at the time, and I'm buying furniture for my apartment. She says, I assume if you're buying this for your own apartment, you're not married? I say no. She says oh well I have a daughter. So I say- she says that she's a sophomore in college. That wasn't too bad. I said next time she comes home, tell her about me, and then call me and I'll call her. And I did. We went out some place in Nashville ; I think the Ice Capades were visiting from New York. We went for dinner. She was a very nice girl, very pretty girl, but not for me. So I came home from that, lived in my apartment for a month or two, and I said I have to get out of here. I got to go back up north and find a nice Jewish girl and get married. I came up to Philadelphia and I interviewed at Rosenau Brothers, who made little girls clothing. They had five or six factories all around Allentown. BUNNY: Cinderella. It was Cinderella, yes. SC: Oh. BF: What? SC: That was Cinderella Dress? GE: Was that the label, was it the brand? BF: Cinderella, very large company. They were the first company to use a star to advertise their clothing: Shirley Temple. So they were a very successful company, and I went to New York for the weekend before my interview, and I stayed with my mother, who lived in New York. And I didn't walk in the door and I wasn't there thirty seconds, she says your Aunt Mae has a girl for you. My Aunt Mae was a bookkeeper, probably in her 80s at this time. I spoke to her and she gave me this girl's number. I called and she said, "It was very nice of --" and everybody called her "Aunt Mae" -- "your Aunt Mae to give you my number but I'm going with somebody," she said. "But I have a younger sister." So that was the beginning. It took us about 3 years, 2 years, before we got married. BUNNY: We met in '64, married in '66. BF: So that's 2 years. BUNNY: Not quite. BF: Not surprisingly, the first date we had in New York, we went to the Central Park Zoo and sat outside the elephant cage. And then we went for Chinese food. And that was the beginning of that. I was working in- around in the five factories around this area, traveling to them on a daily basis. Every once in a while I'd go for a few days if I needed to do something. Then my company sent me to Virginia? BUNNY: Kentucky. BF: Excuse me, Kentucky. SC: So that was Cinderella that sent you there? BF: Yes. Somebody was making some clothing for them and I went there. And I was there probably for 3-4 months. Every once in a while we'd get in touch. She'd send me a card, I wouldn't return it. I came back to New York and then we started dating and here we are. SC: So you were in Allentown and the Lehigh Valley with Cinderella or were you in New York? BF: No here. I had a choice of moving to Reading or Allentown because our factories were in Reading--. BUNNY: Lansford. Lansford. Lansford. BF: Lansford, up in the Poconos. We had one, Red Hill, so I could have lived in anywhere or Allentown. BUNNY: And Carbondale. Carbondale. BF: Carbondale. So we had five factories. I went around to the five factories doing engineering. I took time studies and set piece rates. Helped people. I worked for a man who- he didn't hire me. He was the general manager, production manager, and the owner of the company hired me and sent me to work in Lansford to work with the general manager. He didn't want me around so he never talked to me very much. So I did my own thing and I had an engineer work there in the late '30s -- oh wait, '40s who was way ahead of his time. He set piece rates using time and motion study, and he had- we had a whole manual of all the piece rates. Unfortunately, at that time maybe the minimum wage was $4 an hour, so in order to earn $4 you had to do an hour's worth of work. What happened was he left the company and the geniuses that were left said that when they had a wage increase, instead of raising the price, they raised the number of pieces. So when I got there you weren't getting paid 10 cents a garment, you're getting- you had to do 2 garments and then whatever it was. And that was not too easy and everybody was converting all the time. They had big staff in the office that was converting everything. So I just took that manual and converted it to time. SC: So it was sort of a speed-up routine that they were doing and then you, and the fact that they had to produce five times as much? BF: Instead of paying $5 an hour they had to pay $6 an hour so instead of raising the value of the time, they raised the time, or they lowered the time. I don't know what they did. GE: So therefore it became very difficult for the people to meet- to get the wage that they should be getting? BF: No. It just made it difficult for the office people to convert. GE: Oh to convert how much they should pay them. BF: I spent a year redoing that whole book. And I converted everything over to time and then all the piece rates were in time. So if the minimum wage changed, it went, then we just changed time. The element, what it was worth. GE: You changed the dollar but the time stayed the same. BF: Changed the dollar. SC: Were those shops unionized or not? BF: All union. SC: All union, yes. Which union did they belong to? BF: I-- SC: The International? Yeah. BF: And I was with them for seven years, and I was getting a little unhappy with what I was doing and spending all this time driving. So I decided to find another job and I came- I was living in Allentown and went to an employment agency here. I said I'm looking for a job and he said what do you do? I said I'm an engineer and plant manager in the garment industry. He said tell me what you do. So I told him everything that I do and he said I never heard anybody that can do that much. So he got me a job in Reading with a nice gentleman whose father had owned a ladies underwear factory and his father passed away. They weren't doing too well in the ladies underwear business so he decided to take in shirts and blouses, and they weren't doing too well, so he hired me. And he- I became plant manager. They had two factories at the time. GE: What's the name of the company? BUNNY: Kelray, wasn't it? BF: Kelray Manufacturing: K-E-L-R-A-Y. GE: And do you know about what year this is? BUNNY: Well I think around '67. Jeb was born. Around '67. SC: And Rosenau was R-O-S-E-N-A-U? BF: Yes. BUNNY: I think it was two N's. SC: Was it? Yeah, I've seen it with two N's. GE: The company that you were with for seven years, was that Cinderella? BUNNY: That was Rosenau. GE: Rosenau owns it and Cinderella's just the brand? BF: Yeah, Rosenau. So I went to work for him and they didn't know anything, they only knew how to make underwear. They didn't know anything about blouses, and he had gotten- became a contractor for knit shirts. They didn't know how to make knit shirts, so I came in and I knew a lot about knit shirts. Once he got me, he started hiring a lot of people and I said to him, you can't do that, you'll have a tremendous amount of makeup -- we all know what that is -- in the factory. He said that's all right we have to hire more people so we can make more garments. The more people we hired the more makeup we had. Finally he was going to close down the big factory in Reading and keep the other one open. He was going to call the union in. I said let's make a deal. I said, I want to fire everybody but 15 people, and I guarantee in 6 months we'll be back to the same number and you'll be making money. So they called the union in and they listened to me and they believed me. We fired 45 people and I kept the only people who could sew a little bit. Because what happened when somebody couldn't sew and you hired experienced people and you put them next to each other, they couldn't sew either. So I taught the supervisor, who could sew, how to make a shirt. We started all over again and some place along the line, we were doing very well and he wanted to open a third factory. I said yeah, he says can you open another factory. I said that means I'll have to be there? And he said you could work in all the places. So I'm working in three factories now and running them and we are doing very well. When I took the job I told them that I wanted a percentage of profits. And unfortunately for him, he opened the books to me and I was looking at the books. At the end of the first year, we made $50,000, and I was expecting about a $10,000 bonus. He called me in and he said here is your bonus check. I looked at it and it was $400. I said I beg your pardon. Well we said we lost money before and we had to put money in the pension plan and we had to do this and I bought new furniture. I never specified what, he should have known ; he was just giving me the business. I said well, I'm not satisfied with that. It was Christmas break and I went home ; my mother was visiting us. He fired me. He had fired me. Before he fired me, I said to him that I could run it but we'd have to let some other people go. He had people in the cutting room that cut all the goods. His cutter and the three men that worked there couldn't- didn't drive cars. I'm just giving you an idea of the kind of help he had. The man that was in charge of shipping couldn't write and didn't read too well. So I replaced all of the personnel and we started making money. SC: This is tape number 2, Bernie Filler. And today is May 19th, 2014. So you were saying that he fired you. BF: He fired me. The following Monday, we got phone calls from a couple of people that were- one of the customers we were sewing for was Hang Ten. Are you familiar with Hang Ten? It was a very, very big company. You know, "Hang Ten" with their feet? That was their emblem with their feet on the board. They were our major supplier and we had a few other people who I had brought in who I knew. We were working for them. Within two days, two companies called me and said get your own factory, we'll give you the business. So I started looking and it took me about three months to find something, three or four months. A friend of mine introduced me to somebody who wanted to sell his contracting business. I went and talked to him and I looked around the factory, and I saw that whatever they were doing, I could do a lot better. And they were making a living. SC: This was in Allentown? BF: No. SC: This was in Reading? BF: No. Palmerton. They were in Palmerton. I walked around the factory and spoke to some of the operators and I looked and asked how many pieces a day do you do? She told me. I said to myself, that's not very many. Anyway, I talked to the owner of the business, he said well some of my girls can do more but I only want to make 300 pieces a day. I don't want them to make more than that. He said I'm happy with that and I can make a living. Or 3000 a day, whatever it is. I said oh. I looked around and I said if you can make 300, I can make 600. So I offered to buy the business and he said okay. We sat down and we made some, did some negotiations, and I'm on unemployment. One week went by, a month went by, two months go by, I call him up and said, what's going on? We either get the deal, I said I have to work, I'm unemployed. He said oh well maybe the first of April we can settle. I said okay. This was March already. So we made the deal in April, and I walked into the factory for two days and we ran out of work. So I called the company that we were working for and he said this is our slow time. He knew it was the slow time coming up, so he didn't tell me, and I bought the business then ran out of work. So I called the owner of the company, we had a very nice conversation and he said we could work something out. He started sending me work again. SC: Who was the man you bought the business from? Do you remember his name? BF: Frank-- BUNNY: With a T. BF: It may come to me before this is over. BUNNY: Tiso. Tiso, Tiso? BF: Tiso. He and his wife were in this business. So I come in and I talk- it's my business now and I go to some of the girls who I knew were good operators. I said how come you only do 50 pieces? I think you can do 300. They said, nobody asked us to. I said well okay, I'm going to start asking you to do more things. So before I was finished I started making 3,000 pieces a week in the factory. GE: So Bernie, you said that there wasn't- you were already done with the factory- you were already done with your production? Was that there was just no more, the customer didn't need any more? BF: The supplier to the factory. We were subcontractors. We needed a manufacturer to give us work. GE: So it was the manufacturer just didn't have any more need? BF: Well the first two weeks in April they ran out of work, every year, and the previous owner knew that, which is why he was putting me off. Because he was making money and he knew it was going to be bad, so. It didn't take me long. So I worked for them, went to Boston, I went to Boston to meet them. I took my wife along to meet them. We had a younger daughter at the time and they filled us up with cartons of little girls' dresses. BUNNY: Girltown -- Girltown was the name. BF: Girltown. It was a big company. GE: And this was your manufacturer? The manufacturer that you were doing the work for? Is that who Girltown is? BF: No- yes. No it wasn't the same one. But anyway, I started working and little by little we were losing our dress business, our blouse business. The first year I was in business, I worked for-- BUNNY: Personal. Personal Sports Wear. BF: Personal? No, Liz Claiborne. BUNNY: She was after. BF: Okay. Anyway I ended up working for Liz Claiborne. Liz Claiborne was a little bit better garments than I was used to making. Did I say I bought the business? GE: Yeah. BF: Okay. And I worked for Liz Claiborne for a year and did very well. Then they called me and said we are very sorry, we are moving overseas. SC: What year was this about? BF: So I worked for two other blouse companies for a short time and they moved overseas. SC: Was this in the '60s or '70s? BF: [19]70s. And I had a friend in right outside Allentown who had a garment factory that made ladies pants. He was a contractor. He worked for -- GE: Oh was this the family that -- BF: Fogelman. GE: Fogelman. The pants. They worked for Dunner, wasn't it? BF: Dunner, Alfred Dunner. SC: We just saw Maxine when we had lunch together. BF: Okay. My best friend in Allentown was her husband, who passed away. GE: Oh Arnold. Okay so you started doing pants for them. BF: Not quite. GE: May I just go back a second to make sure I'm clear. So when you went into your own business, tell me what kind of garments were you making again? BF: Blouses. GE: Blouses. Anything else or just blouses? BF: Just blouses. GE: Women's blouses? BF: Women's blouses. GE: And they were made from what kind of fabric? BF: Mostly cotton. GE: Cotton and knits. BF: No knits. Knit manufacturers were a different category. BUNNY: It was Personal Sports Wear and Breckenridge. GE: Say that again? BUNNY: Personal. They had like two hearts. It was a big label here. Personal Sportswear and then Breakenridge. GE: Okay those were his two, he had two customers. BF: He needs another contractor, would I be interested in working for him? I said I don't know anything about pants, I make blouses. He said, well you can come down here and look at and stay in my factory and ask any questions you want. I said can I bring my supervisor with me? He said sure. So the two of us went down and we spent the whole day there and we looked at every operation. When it was all over, I said is there anything here you can't do? She said no. So I told him I'd work for him. I said can you give me a hundred pairs of pants out of scrap so I can make some and be sure. So he said sure. So he cut a hundred pairs of pants for me. My supervisor made all hundred and when she was all finished, I said could you train everybody? She said sure. Now in time and motion, of course. We started working for him and I was- my accountant- I had spoken to my accountant before I switched over. He said are you going to be alright? I said yeah I set up a schedule for myself. Within four months I told him how much I would make each month and by the fourth month I would make a profit. So I did. Now I'm working for them, and I worked for them for 10 years and the last couple of years we were doing very well. I was very happy. I'm trying to think-- No, I worked for him for 10 years. GE: Is that from around the late '70s to late '80s? BF: I retired 17 years ago. GE: So 17 years ago would be 1995 or 1997. BF: [19]93 maybe. I left something out, I want to just add it. When I bought my own business and I was doing very well, they used to have a show in Atlantic City every year. A garment and textile show. So I decided that I would go. So I went there and I see my ex-employer who had fired me there. He saw me and turned and looked the other way. So I went over to him and tapped him on the shoulder to shake, I said, "Shake? I just want to thank you." He said what? I said I want to thank you for firing me. I bought my own business ; I'm making so much money I don't know what to do with it. And I turned around and walked away. He was in business three, three to four months after I left, then he went out of business. So I guess I did something right. SC: Sometimes things all pull together, don't they? BF: So that's it, then I retired. GE: So after, after doing this for ten years for Charles Dunner- BF: Alfred Dunner. GE: Alfred Dunner, did you retire because they didn't need it? Do you retire because- BF: I retired because I was old. GE: So you retired in the 1990s? BF: Yeah. Let's go back 17 years. GE: Well it's 2014 so that would be 1997. BUNNY: It was after Jeb got married, Jeb was married in '95, so it was after '95. BF: And some place along the line-- GE: Did you get to sell your business in 1997? BF: Yes. Some place along the line, I had a friend who worked at the hospitals here in town and he was responsible for buying clothing and things, like hospital gowns. He said, can you make some hospital gowns for me? I said yeah I guess I could. So he showed me one, I said yeah I can make these. I gave him a price and I made hospital gowns as a sideline for- I had a garage, and I converted the garage into a sewing room to make hospital gowns. It was a very cheap garment, so I opened up that section as non-union, my shop was union. BUNNY: Was that Mared? BF: Mared Manufacturing. I named it after my children Mara and Jed. BUNNY: And your other business was- BF: Jedmar. BUNNY: Was the main business. GE: Say it again? BUNNY: J-E-D-M-A-R Enterprises. That was his big factory. GE: How many people did you have working there at Jedmar Enterprises? BF: About 60-65. GE: And those were mostly operators, sewers? BF: Yeah. I had more when I had Mared Manufacturing. I had about another 10 people working at Mared. And one day the union came to me and said, you know you're a union shop. I said, yes. You can't run a non-union shop in the backdoor, in the garage ; you're going to have to convert to union. Meanwhile, the girls who are working back there loved it because they were getting better benefits than the other people were. I mean I was paying them, I gave them Christmas presents, I gave them bonuses, and all kinds of things. They came in and said we don't want to make it hard for you but we want that to be union. We'll give you a deal. He said you tell them it's going to be union and instead of six percent benefits, you can start with two percent. The next year you can go to three percent then five percent. He gave me like three years, and I got that going good, and guess what? They started making them overseas, so I lost that business, too. SC: Did you belong to any of the associations? BF: I belonged to the Atlantic Apparel Association. Which everybody did. GE: That was the one with Arnold Delin? BF: Yes. When I joined there were about a hundred and some odd members. By the time I left there were maybe 20 left. GE: So by the time you retired, in the late 1990s, this was pretty much gone from the area? BF: Yes. SC: And that was late. So many people were out way before that. BF: Well, that's because I was good. GE: How many years did you make the hospital gowns . . . about? BF: Maybe two years. GE: Do you remember what years? Is this the 1990s? BF: Well the children were young so it couldn't be BUNNY: They were in college. BF: No they weren't in college yet ; they were, they were, maybe they were going to college. I made them partners in my business. I split all the profits with my two children. So that by the time I had to close it down, they already had a nice- better money for college. So they were taken care of. That worked out very well. GE: What hospital- You were making hospital gowns, who was your customer? BF: All the- there was only one hospital here. GE: Really? It was Lehigh Valley Hospital? BF: Lehigh Valley. And at that time, they were really doing most of the business. They bought an awful lot of hospital gowns from us. I had an offer to make hospital gowns for the military, and I chose not to do it. SC: Was that because of dealing with the military or was that because of any issue you had with the military as far-? BF: No. It's because I had a cousin that was in charge of all the subcontractors that worked for the government. He came to a bar mitzvah and he found out I was making hospital gowns and said how would you like to make hospital gowns for the government? I said let's talk about it. It was a good deal. He would guarantee me the work. SC: You asked whether the children were a part of the business? And just one summer, when one of your sons worked. GE: Right. Would you like to share- Matt, we'll ask you if you have any questions. But would you like to share with us a little bit about the Jewish community when you came, both what you came, what it was like, and also what you've observed? You've been here now I think you said 48 years? BUNNY: Forty-eight years. But he's been here longer. GE: What has it meant to you being part of the Jewish community here, and what was that like, here in Allentown? BF: Well we got married and we wanted to have a family and wanted them to be Jewish. So we decided we would join a synagogue. So I went shopping, and I went to Beth El first and talking to them I found that they were pretty well booked up, and if I joined that synagogue I would have to sit in the back, in a different room in the back for services, for holidays because all the seats, or a good number of the seats belong to old congregants. GE: This was about what year? BUNNY: 1966-67. BF: So I went a couple blocks away and I went to K.I. And I had never belonged to a synagogue in my life. I went to K.I. and they welcomed me with open arms, they said you could sit wherever you want when you come here. You will be a regular member of the community and the congregation. And I said okay, and I joined. And we've been there since- BUNNY: 1973. GE: So 1973 is when you joined. How about your involvement with any other institutions? BF: Well I was president of Jewish Family Service for two years. I was vice president for a couple of years. And I was just on the board for a couple of years, about 6 years altogether. GE: Okay so a lot of involvement with Jewish Family Service. Any other organizations? BUNNY: You were president of Brotherhood of K.I. BF: President of the Brotherhood of K.I. Bunny: And treasurer of the synagogue. BF: Treasurer of the synagogue. GE: So you were really quite active at K.I. Still active at K.I.? BF: Yes. Not as much as my wife. My wife now volunteers there about three days a week. Does a wonderful job. MATT: Has Judaism had any impact on your business life when you were working? BF: Not really. MATT: Whether business connections or anything like that. BF: I knew a lot of people in the garment business that were Jewish, but we didn't have any- we became friendly and knew each other but that didn't affect my business at all. SC: Do you think there is a reason why people in the Jewish community became involved in the garment industry overall? BF: That's what they were doing when they came from New York. GE: So even let's say why in New York? In other words, what do you think was the association between Jews and the garment industry? BF: Because they couldn't get jobs in industries. You couldn't work for GM, you couldn't work for- so they decided to go into the garment business. And of course they ended up very, very large in the garment business and still are, still are. SC: It's nice to get independent confirmation from different people. BF: So when the war started, there were a lot of complications in New York. They couldn't get help, they couldn't get factories. A lot of them decided to come out here because there was plenty of help. So they moved here and they opened up garment factories here. They suffered a little bit when the war came along. But once they found out what they had to do, they made a lot of money. They did government work, and they did- yeah. SC: Do you see the industry as being- in Reading at certain times there were sewing factories up, in all the places that you were, do you think there's a reason those areas were so lucrative for people in the coal regions...? BF: Availability of labor. SC: Of the female labor? BF: Yeah. Actually, in the garment industry, forty or fifty years ago in New York, most of the operators were men, originally. Then the women gradually came into the business. SC: There's a cliché that where there is a silk mill, there's- silk mills were near the coal mines. That the sewing mills- sewing factories were also near the coal mines or near the steel mills or wherever. Is that overblown or do you think there is a connection there? BF: Well the reason for that I think is because the garment industry employs women and the other industries didn't. So it was a place for their wives to work. GE: So all the men were working in the coal mines or the other types of jobs and the women were working in these kinds of factories. BF: There was a lot of- what I'd want to say? When they didn't like Jews? Anti-Semitism and anti- other things in the coal regions. The reason there were so many people from the coal region who ended up in the garment industry and they opened up their own businesses because the people in the garment industry prior to that wouldn't hire people from the coal regions. GE: Can you say that again and explain it to us? BF: Yes. There was a lot of prejudice and people with backgrounds, both- whatever their backgrounds was, couldn't get jobs in a lot of factories. They were prejudiced against. There were a lot of Italians working in the Northern part, a lot of Italians. GE: You're saying that the owners of those coal mines wouldn't hire those Italians? BF: No, the other garment business. GE: Because the original garment factory owners would not hire those people. SC: Would not hire Jews. BF: No, I don't think it was the Jewish owners. It was the owners of the other factories. GE: Who was showing the prejudice? BF: They were English, they were- BUNNY: No, who were they? BF: I'm getting there. Who came to the United States before the Eastern Europeans? They were English and they were German and they lived up there and the people that opened businesses there wouldn't hire. GE: And you're saying they wouldn't hire the local people to work in their factories? BF: No. So eventually they opened up in Palmerton around the coal regions, the lower coal regions, my boss there was- came out of high school in Palmerton, and there was a lady who was kind of a supervisor running the factory. And he was a very bright guy and she taught him. He ended up being the general manager some years later. He didn't have a lot of prejudice. I'm serious. SC: We've heard that in Allentown, their- the community of people in the garment industry were mostly Jewish. And up in the Northern part near Palmerton and Catasauqua, places like that, it was more Italians. Is that true? BF: Yes. GE: And with the Italian owners, who were, were the women who worked there typically Italian or whatever ethnicity? BF: I would say it started out, but then they didn't have enough people and they started hiring other people. Eventually it disappeared and with the Atlantic Apparel Association make sure of everything. MATT: I have a couple of follow up questions going back to your uncle's factory in New York that you were talking about. Do you feel like your uncle was your biggest inspiration to kind of lead you on the path that you ended up following? BF: No. The only inspiration he gave me was he gave me knowledge. My mother said to me, stay with your uncle, some day the business will be yours. He was never married. When he was 55 or 60 years old he got married and married a very wealthy woman and shut the business down. MATT: She shut it down before you had the opportunity to take it over. BF: Yes. So I did the right thing. GE: But you did, the good part was you learned the business. MATT: And it was for that reason that you decided to go to FIT and not just a regular college? BF: Yes, because I was working for my uncle and I liked what I was doing. It turned out that I was very good at what I did. MATT: How old were you when his wife ended up shutting down the business? Or what year and how old were you? BF: Probably in my early twenties, two years after I got out of the army. And everything worked out very well. He was very happy ; he married a nice woman. She took very good care of him when he got older, and I didn't have to worry about it. But I, I- My specialty was engineering, time and motion studying piece rates, methods work. I was very, very good at that. GE: Tell us what you mean by methods work. BF: Well a girl- somebody came to work for me and I didn't know if she could sew. She sat down at the machine and I knew exactly how I would tell her to pick up this one and over that one. I knew this. And she sat down and put two pieces together and shook her head no. She did it again and shook her head no. Then she did it the way I would have told her the third time and she shook her head yes. That's what I did. When you walked into my factory, let's say we had 6 sleeve setters, 6 pocket setters, if you came and you looked at them, all 6 would be doing them exactly the same way. SC: That's efficiency. GE: Yes, I was going to say. That's efficiency and standardization. SC: Yes. This is going to go off in a second. Okay, so you said you were good at what you did. Do you have a good example of that? BF: I had a lady who did the payroll for the executives of the company, plus all the contractors. So I called the one day I said, "You know, I come right by the factory, could I drop my bill off on Friday and pick it up on Tuesday? And she said, "Absolutely." So I said okay. So I dropped it off on Friday and I pick it up Tuesday morning, so instead of waiting a whole week, I got it in the next day. And one day she said to me, "How many people you have working for you?" I said, "60." She looked at me and she says, "You're doing all this billing with 60 people?" I said, "Yes." She said "Oh," so I knew I was doing good. SC: And you had a question? MATT: So I know you were saying before you were in a lot of states -- Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee. For the most part, the companies that ended up buying your products, your finished products at the end, were they mostly from the specific regions within the states or from all over the country? BF: Oh no, they were from all over the country. They were all big corporations in New York, they sold all over. Alfred Dunner is probably the best ladies sportswear company below the designers, and they sell all over the country. You go into the major department stores in New York, they have an Alfred Dunner department. GE: Here, too. BF: Yes, here, too. And of course, they made very good pants. That's what I made. SC: The best pants. So do you have any other questions? GE: You know, I think- SC: I think we hit them. You were great! Minimal questioning, maximum information -- it was great! But I have two- three. I have three questions. No, two questions -- we talked about the community. So my first question is, what has made you feel the most artistic in your life? And I mean that in that sort of metaphoric sense of creativity, completion, you know, sense of satisfaction in your life. BF: Well, my wife's the only one in the family with musical talent, and she inspires me. As a matter of fact, on June 20th, she's going to become a bat mitzvah. And we're looking forward to that. And of course, now my grandchildren inspire me -- in very small ways. SC: And what do you value most in life? BF: Well, other than the work that I did all those years, my family. GE: And one other question I was wondering, in terms of the community, 50 years ago, this community had much more industry and small industry. Now there's much, much less of it. How do you think that has impacted the community? The broad community -- and actually, the broad community and maybe more specific- and then two things, the broad community and then also how about the Jewish community? Do you think the Jewish community has been impacted by this? BF: I don't think so. Because, as I started saying, the Jewish community couldn't do other things. Today they can. So they're not as impacted by not having garment factories. GE: And how about the broad community? Do you think our community just now has other things? Is it in any way been diminished or maybe it's even stronger or better because we don't have those factories? What do you think? Any thoughts? BF: It doesn't affect me, I don't think it affects other people. Do you? And, you know, and we've lost a lot of people who wanted to work in garment factories, they just don't want to do it anymore. And their next generation doesn't want to do it, so something would have happened anyway. SC: Okay, thank you. MATT: Just one last, quick question. Aside from having to move around a lot, going to the different factories around the country, what do you feel like your biggest challenge was professionally, aside from that? Like, internally within the factories that you had to work in? BF: Well, owning my own business, and being successful, and that's what I was happy to do. BUNNY: That was your biggest challenge? GE: Was that a big challenge because of the risk? BF: It was. First thing I had to do when I decided to buy a business was go to the bank and borrow money. I had never done that in my life. And fortunately, my mother, who at that time was in her eighties and living alone in New York -- well not exactly alone, she had a boyfriend -- but she had some money saved and I said to her I could use some money to buy my business. You loan me your money, I'll take care of you. You won't have a need for anything, whatever expenses you have, I'll take care of it. So she said okay, and she gave me a nice sizable amount of money, helped me buy the business. And then I started- that was to buy the business, now I needed to go to the bank to buy machinery, the money for machinery because going from blouses to pants was- a lot of it was different machinery. First of all, I never had pressing machines with blouses, we had a steamer. Steamed it. Never had pressing machines but we had to buy pressing machines to press the pants. MATT: Were there certain challenges, depending on what state your factory was actually operating in? Maybe based on laws or anything in that state, preventing anything or was it for the most part, all the same, no matter what state you're in, when it came to buying the actual equipment in the factory? BF: That was a national thing. Most of the people who bought machinery from up until about the 90s, was Singer and Union Special, and they were made in the United States. Then there- GE: I'm sorry, it's what company? BF: Union Special and Singer. And then the Japanese came in with Juki and they took over the- pretty much most of the sewing and the factories. Just a better machine. GE: So they really replaced the other. BF: Yeah, they replaced the Singers, the Union Specials. One place, okay, one place when I was working in Tennessee, my boss sent me to Portugal for a month. He said there was somebody who wanted to make some housecoats for us, and I said- and he said he doesn't know anything about making housecoats, want to go show him? So I said, okay. And I was there for a month, and I like to say that for a month I was God. Because in Portugal, I walked in, I went to see the sewing company in Lisbon and I said, "I'm going to need to buy some sewing machines." And so, "What do you need?" And I gave him this list for about 20 machines, and he looked at me and said, "I haven't got this many machines." He said, "It'll take me a couple of weeks to get them." I said okay -- I mean, they didn't have it. And you know what a cutting table is? We had a- the factory that I went to, the man was making pillowcases, so his cutting table was about six yards long -- you know, pillowcases. And we needed a 14 yard table for the house dresses. So I said, "Okay, we have to buy some lumber. What's the cheapest lumber to buy here?" And they said, "Mahogany!" So we built the mahogany cutting table, probably the only one in the world, and it worked fine. And when I came from New York to go to the factory, I brought a bunch of attachments that you put on the sewing machine. One was a cord piper. You know what cord piping is? SC: When you put the cording-- GE: Around the edge. BUNNY: Like this. BF: Yeah, that's cord piping. So there's an attachment that you put the piping around it, fold it, and it pushes it through. And the pipe- there's a tube, the piping goes in the middle, and you do it all in one time. So I get there and I take out this quart pipe -- and nobody spoke English. But the plant manager was Portuguese, but he was born in South Africa and raised in South Africa. And he was a typical Englishman, wore a bowler and cane, and the spats, the whole works, my age. And he spoke English, of course. So I said, "We should start with the supervisor." And I said, "Well how did you make the samples?" [She had] made samples. She said she took the piping and sewed it to one piece of the collar and then she took the other piece of the collar, sewed it to the other piece of the collar that had piping on it. Three operations. So I took out my phone, I put it on the machine. SC: Time management. BF: I was God. I was there for a month and I really hated to go. But I did. I was offered a job there by somebody else and I just couldn't do it to my company. I was working in the factory and the guy who owned the factory was in the textile business in the United States, and he also had plants all over the world and he traveled around the world -- and this is the truth -- once a week, once a week. Go to New York, go to England, go to China, go to Japan for silk and go to- every week, okay? And he came home from Portugal, that was his last stop where he was going around the world, and flew back to New York. And while he was in Portugal, he had two factories in Belgium. The managers would come down and meet with him while he was in Portugal and he would have been- and again, if he could get there, we got there- I flew over with him. I got there like seven o'clock in the morning. Have you flown internationally? Customs? Plane landed, car pulled up to the airplane. We got off the airplane into the car and left -- no customs. I mean, so it was very- Anyway, this guy- we got to know each other in the months he was going, he came to visit once a week. And when he was leaving, he said, "How would you like to work for me?" I said, "what would you want me to do?" He said, "I want you to run this factory and the one in Brooklyn- Belgium, and you can live wherever you want, I'll give you a car and you'll be in charge. It was a great opportunity. I was single at the time. SC: That's what I was going to ask. BF: I was single at the time. BUNNY: "B.B. -- Before Bunny." BF: I liked working for my boss. I didn't want to do that to him. And I'm doing a good job there and he appreciated it. So I turned down the job. It would have been interesting, but he wouldn't expect me, expected me to live like he did, I mean, I'd probably be working 43 hours a week -- a day -- and traveling back and forth all the time. It wasn't for me, but just [to] tell you how important this guy became. He flew into Portugal one morning and he had a return trip at one o'clock in the afternoon back to New York. Flies into Portugal. He goes to the airport and he's a couple of minutes late. And-- What airlines was it? BUNNY: Pan Am, I think he came. BF: Pan Am? I guess he says you can't do this. They say, "I'm sorry, sir. We gave your seat away." He said, "I beg your pardon?" "We gave your seat away. You're not here." He said, "I'm here. The plane is still here. I'll sit in the toilet." "No, I'm sorry, sir. You can't get on the plane." And they wouldn't let him on the plane. So he went back to the factory, called his lawyer in New York and said, "I'm calling Pan Am and telling them I'm chartering a consolation to take me to New York, and they're going to pay for it." His lawyers said don't do it. They won't do it, they won't pay. But after that, when he wanted to go somewhere, he picked me up originally at one of the garment factories with his own private twin engine plane. And we flew to- we had to get to Atlanta to catch a plane to New York. And we were in Georgia. And his pilot called and he said, "We can't go- can't get to Atlanta in time." "How much time we're going to miss by?" He said maybe 15, 20 minutes. He said, "Tell them to wait for me." He got to the airport. There was a car, there was a plane sitting in the middle of the runway. We got on and they took off. So he carried you, you could travel around the world once a week. He had leverage. He was very nice. He was married, I don't know why-- Yeah. SC: You know and it's nice to know that- that's exciting but you kept your sense of who you were, who is really nice. BF: How much more could I be then God? SC: That's true, that's true. BUNNY: That's a good way to end, isn't it? SC: Thank you. Interview with Bunny Filler, May 19th, 2014 GAIL EISENBERG: So maybe Bunny can sit there? We want to hear a little about your family. MATT: How much time is left on the--? SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Not a whole lot but we'll go through until we get to the end. BERNIE FILLER: She'll have to apologize for when she tells you what her father did. SC: So would you state your full name, when you were born, and where you grew up? BUNNY FILLER: Well I'm not gonna tell you when I was born. SC: Okay, that's fine. BUNNY: My name is Helen Filler, but nobody calls me that and nobody knows me by that name. My name is Bunny. I got that nickname many years ago when I was a camper and it stuck. GE: What was your maiden name? BUNNY: Levin. L-E-V-I-N. Levine. Some people call me Lev-een, here they call me Lev-ine or Lev-in. But it's Levin. I was born in the Bronx at- or actually, I was born in Manhattan at Lenox Hill Hospital. I was raised in the Bronx. My mother and father -- my mother's name is Frieda Thelma Kraft, no relation to Kraft Foods unfortunately. My father's name is Julius Alexander. My son is named after him. And my grandparents on my father's side -- my paternal grandfather was a Yankee, which is very unusual. He was born here. My paternal grandmother was born in Lithuania and they met here in this country. My paternal grandfather- GE: Do you know any names? So like you're- BUNNY: Harry. I'm named after Harry, that's where Helen came from. Harry, and my grandmother's name was Lena Platt and her family was- wound up in Harrisburg. GE: Okay, and Lena Platt- she was the one, they were from Lithuania. BUNNY: She was from Lithuania originally, yeah. GE: And no relation to Murray [Platt]? BUNNY: No. GE: And Harry, of course, that's Lev-in. BUNNY: Levin. GE: Levin. Okay. And he was born in the U.S. BUNNY: Right. My maternal grandparents were Lillian and Benjamin Kraft. Her maiden name, I remember, was Lillian Bernstein. And I'm not quite sure -- Poland, I think? I can't come up with the exact [location], but I think they came from Poland and I think maybe one came from Russia. I'm not one hundred sure. GE: All those places were the same anyway. BUNNY: Yeah. My paternal grandfather was in the meatpacking business. GE: Your paternal grandfather -- that's Harry? BUNNY: Harry worked at Swift and Company, I think. And my maternal grandfather was a millinery, a millinery, a milliner. Yes, that's it. He made hats. He made hats, yes. My mother had- there were three sisters and a brother. My father had one brother, [unclear]. GE: Three sisters and a brother, okay. I'm sorry, your father had one brother? BUNNY: One brother, younger brother who was a dentist. Robert, Uncle Bob. GE: Your grandfather was in the millinery. Did he make the hats, did he work at a little factory? BUNNY: I don't know. I just know he was in millinery, that's what my mother told me. And unfortunately, she's not here to help me. I have lots of questions now that I should have asked many years ago and didn't. GE: Do you know about when your parents were born? BUNNY: Oh, yes, my mother was -- this was unusual -- my mother was born in 1905. And I don't know if you know what the word shanda is, meaning in Yiddish it means "it's a shame". She married my father, who was born in 1909. And in that generation, you did not marry a woman who was older than you. She was- my grandmother was very upset. "Take good care of my son," she said to my mother on their wedding night. She thought my mother was a hussy. BF: And she was a redhead. BUNNY: And she was a natural born redhead, yes. And I had a great grandfather, we called them the Bubba [Yiddish for grandmother] and the Zayde [Yiddish for grandfather], they spoke no English whatsoever. My Zayde, I remember, he was in his 90s -- he had this long beard, and I would sit on his lap and pull his beard, and he would get hysterical laughing. My parents were so embarrassed. I don't know, I don't remember their name. GE: Was that. . . BUNNY: No, that was Lena Platt. Also, he was Platt, but I don't know- I only knew them as the Bubba and the Zayde. But their name was Platt. GE: So that was Lena Platt's- BUNNY: Mother and father. GE: Oh my goodness. Wow. So therefore the whole family did come. They were in the- they did come to the U.S. BUNNY: Yeah. I was lucky I had grandparents. I didn't know my grandfathers, they died before I was born. But I knew my great-grandfather. Ain't that unusual? My kids also never knew their grandfather -- my father died when he was forty-six, so that was, that was pretty sad. SC: What kind of work did they all do, besides the ones that you talked about? BUNNY: My father had also started to work for Swift and Company, which was a meat packing plant. And he bought his own business, called Merion Provision Company -- I still have pencils. M-E-R-I-O-N. Merion Provision Company. And he manufactured pure pork sausage, which made my mother crazy because my mother was raised as an Orthodox Jew. She no longer was, and he would bring home his sausage, and my sister and I would devour it -- breakfast sausage, not like these big links, and not the patties, they were just the links. And he made a very good living. My mother taught school. And then when my father- BF: Wasn't she a milliner to start out? No, she wasn't? BUNNY: No, my mother was a schoolteacher. She was one of the first women to graduate from college in her circle of friends. None of the women went to college. She graduated from Hunter College. And she was fluent in German, she took German. GE: Wasn't Hunter College free then? BUNNY: I don't know. Probably. GE: New York was very progressive that way where it was, like, free. Everybody got in. BF: Probably. SC: Yeah, but it was all women. GE: Hunter? I never heard that. SC: Was it all women? BUNNY: It used to be an all women's school. GE: Really? I never heard that. BF: Yeah. My sister went there, too. BUNNY: But she- my mother was a very bright lady but she stayed home, finally, after my father got his business going and became successful. Then she stayed home. I don't know what else to tell you. GE: But then your dad, you're saying, died young. BUNNY: My father had a heart attack when he was 46 years old. Got sick on a Thursday and died on a Sunday and it was devastating. Devastating. I was very close to my father, he was a- we're lucky. You don't choose your parents, you're born into- and some people don't have such wonderful parents and you can't help it. I was very, very blessed, very, very blessed -- had a wonderful sense of humor. And interesting, one of my aunts said that Bernie reminds, reminded her of my dad, which I thought was kind of interesting, with the sense of humor and everything. GE: How old were you? BUNNY: I was 16 when he died. SC: So where have you worked in your life? BUNNY: Well, I went to, I went to P.S. 11, went to William Howard Taft High School, and then I went to Boston University. And I became an early childhood- I was an early childhood major, and I taught kindergarten in New York for five years. And then my Prince Charming came and we got married, and we came to- and he helped me find a job here. He called places for me because I was still in New York, and I got a job in the Allentown School District. Otis Rothenberg I think interviewed me and he wanted to give me a first-grade position, and I looked at him square in the eyes -- I don't know how I got the nerve -- and I said, "I'm going to be a brand new bride. I don't know a soul in Allentown. I don't know anything. But I am a wonderful kindergarten teacher, and I've been doing it for years. I really don't want something new." He went and looked up something. He said, "Fine, you can teach kindergarten at Lehigh Parkway." He interviewed me there and I had to meet him someplace else and we said goodbye and I didn't move. And he said, "Do you have a problem, honey?" And I said, "Yes. I don't know how to get to my fiance's apartment from here." I only knew how to get from South Mountain. And he said, "Follow me." This is the superintendent of schools, and he took me to Bernie's apartment. That's how I started. And I only taught one year because- I was in New York for five, but I only taught one because I got pregnant, and I gave birth to Jed in September of 1967. So I finished school half the year in June and then I stayed home, and then Mara was born nineteen months later. And then about two years later, I went over to the Center -- they did not have a music program for their three year olds, and I said I'll do it for free. I'll just sit and play songs for them. And so, fine, they hired me. What could be better than not paying me anything? And I've been working for nothing ever since! And I went to the Day School, and they don't pay too well either! In any event, I stayed at the Center for a long time and then somebody approached me at the Day School and asked me if I would do the music program there. And this is somebody who does not read Hebrew or speak Hebrew, but I taught a lot of Jewish music there. You learn it. It's not difficult. And then while I was there, the principal, Barry Cohen, asked me if I would begin a pre-kindergarten program that they never had one. And I said I could try. And so I started there in 1980- I want to say '83 or '84. Something like that. And I started that pre-K program that's there now. I was there for 27 years. GE: So really, just 'til a couple years ago. BUNNY: I stopped teaching in 2010. What'd you say? BF: I said that was nice. BUNNY: Yeah in 2010, that was not a good way to leave. But anyway, I loved, loved, loved working there. I taught four year olds and I was very blessed because I could teach the whole program. I taught secular as well as Judaic. I taught them, you know, all about Judaism. I taught them the Hebrew alphabet. That's how I learned to read Hebrew, like a first grader. But it was a wonderful- it was my life, it was my life, aside from my husband and my wonderful children. My husband supported me three-hundred percent. He loved the fact that I was there. He came to every program I ever did. He made the costumes, talking about his factory, he made all our costumes for us. We used to do Purim and we used to do parody shows. And he did Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. He did the music, really did all of it. He made all the costumes for us. He's been a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful husband. He really has been, I'm very lucky. SC: And the Center has been so successful. BUNNY: Excuse me? SC: It's so successful. BUNNY: Yeah, it was, it was really good. BF: As a result of her teaching there, to this day, I'm still- she used to introduce me to her children. And to this day now, because the parents are now grandparents, they still call me "Mr. Bunny." BUNNY: "Mara Bunny and Mr. Bunny". SC: Oh, I love it. BUNNY: So I left there in 2000- I left the day school in 2010. And it was a very difficult decision and a difficult year. And then I kind of found my way into K.I. again. I mean, we've always been active, but now I volunteer there. He said three days a week, I'm really there almost five because I'm chairing this ad book, so I'm trying to put together this home journal, and it's not an easy job. It's a wonderful- I mean, I just love, love being there. And that's been, you know, fulfilling my life. SC: How do you see the community, the wider community and the Jewish community, changing over time? And Allentown, perhaps? BUNNY: Well Allentown has grown tremendously. When we first came here, I had to go down to King of Prussia- not King of Prussia, Plymouth Meeting to buy clothes for my little boy. I mean, there was nothing -- there were two shops here, the Children's Shop and I think Clymer's Carousel. And there was nothing else, there was no mall, there was nothing. So it's grown tremendously that way. You know, I've seen a lot of people coming in from the area, a lot of transplants here. So that's changed. How do I see the whole community? It's not just the community, it's society. Everything is very different today. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time. I think, you know, we've become a little bit too casual and a little bit too disrespectful. The kids, adults as well. I saw it in parents as well as children. And it's... it's--. It makes me sad, it really makes me sad, and what makes me feel good is my kids, who are only in their 40s, think the same thing. So it doesn't make me feel like I'm an old lady, like, "Oh, she's from, you know, three generations ago." It's different. It's just- it's very different and it makes me sad. SC: So what do you value in life? This is going to beep soon, that's why I-- BUNNY: What do I value in life? What Bernie said, I mean, I value my family, my husband first and foremost, my children, my grandchildren, my synagogue that I have seen growing now. We've been through some very hard times and it's now coming back thanks to a wonderful, wonderful rabbi. And I just you know, I just think it's really, really important. It's been our social life. And I value my friendships. As he said, my synagogue has been such an integral part of my life, all of a sudden at this old age, I decided I was going to become a Bat mitzvah all by myself. No classes, no nobody else, just me. And it's been a very, very surreal but incredibly fulfilling experience. I never would have dreamed this. And I never belonged to a synagogue growing up. Nothing. So that makes it even more special for me. It really does. SC: And what makes you feel the most creative, artistic, satisfied? I mean, I think you sort of said that, but anything else? BUNNY: I mean, I don't look at myself as a creative individual. I don't- I mean I don't-, well when I think of creativity, you know, I think of artistic, making things, and coming up with all these wonderful ideas. Sometimes I am, I gave him the most wonderful 80th birthday party, and I'm not patting myself on the back. We did it together and it was fabulous, fabulous. It was a New York Giants theme. And it was just -- we did all kinds of creative things and that gave me a lot of satisfaction. SC: But teaching kindergarten, that's artistry. That is artistry at its best. BUNNY: I just absolutely- well, the four year olds- yes, I will say I was creative in that. I really was. GE: And you were doing it for 26 years. BUNNY: And I was doing art projects -- which to me were hands-on, but I wasn't allowed to call it that because that part wasn't creative if you give the kids directions on how to do something. It was to teach them how to follow directions, not just for their creativity. You know, if I'd say, paint the sun yellow, the art teacher would yell at me and say, "The sun can be any color." I said, "Yes, but I want them to follow directions. Later on, I will tell them they can do whatever they want with it." And so we had a lot of hands-on stuff. And I, I just- that's what I miss most of all, these four year olds. They were just beautiful, beautiful people, beautiful people. So I'm a big child. I just love children, just love children. Or babies, I love them when they're new. I just- that's what I like. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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01:33:23
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Title
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Bernie and Bunny Filler, May 19th, 2014
Description
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Bernie Filler talks about how he grew up in the Bronx, worked part-time for his uncle who was in the textile business and attended FIT after high school. After graduating and being in the service, Bernie worked as a manager and an engineer at several large apparel factories, first in the South, then in Pennsylvania, before buying his own factory in Palmerton, PA. At the time, the factory made women’s blouses. After a while, Bernie became a subcontractor to Tama Manufacturing making pants for Alfred Dunner. Bernie worked with Tama Manufacturing making pants for Alfred Dunner until Bernie retired in the late 1990s.
Bunny Filler talks about her childhood growing up in the Bronx, attending Boston University, teaching kindergarten in New York and then meeting her “Prince Charming” (Bernie) and coming to Allentown. When Bunny’s younger child was a toddler, Bunny began a music program at the JCC Nursery School and later at the Jewish Day School. A few years later, Bunny began a pre-kindergarten program at the Jewish Day School, which she taught for twenty-seven years.
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LVTNT-13
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2014-05-19
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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https://textile.digitalarchives.muhlenberg.edu/files/original/a24dc70fdaf72436f1009b827bc255dc.png
a7032e5e261f9dfd2eb656b5b1d73fb7
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Arnan Finkelstein
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https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=LVTNT-18.xml
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5.4 May 15, 2014 Arnan Finkelstein, May 15, 2014 LVTNT-18 1:33:05 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Arnan Finkelstein Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 FinkelsteinArnan_20140515 1.0:|19(7)|36(10)|55(4)|78(12)|95(13)|112(14)|133(14)|156(3)|181(3)|206(5)|227(3)|248(7)|273(11)|288(14)|313(7)|334(15)|355(20)|372(6)|387(15)|408(4)|425(12)|448(9)|461(17)|480(13)|503(5)|526(11)|545(4)|566(11)|587(12)|606(5)|625(6)|638(8)|661(3)|672(10)|691(3)|718(2)|739(4)|758(4)|777(11)|806(2)|827(2)|850(2)|883(7)|904(11)|933(5)|952(9)|981(2)|1004(2)|1023(8)|1046(11)|1061(10)|1086(7)|1109(10)|1130(7)|1147(3)|1160(17)|1185(10)|1208(5)|1237(7)|1266(9)|1285(9)|1310(2)|1331(7)|1348(12)|1371(2)|1396(17)|1413(8)|1432(2)|1447(4)|1468(9)|1487(14)|1512(10)|1531(11)|1550(8)|1571(7)|1590(7)|1619(7)|1644(6)|1657(12)|1678(4)|1701(17)|1718(14)|1739(10)|1762(9)|1777(11)|1802(8)|1825(15)|1844(13)|1865(8)|1884(12)|1901(7)|1914(16)|1929(14)|1930(2) 0 https://youtu.be/-46-hKYxyg8 YouTube video 0 Introduction—Arnan Finkelstein SC: I am going to ask you a little bit about your family first. If you could start with yourself and then we will go backwards. What is your full name? Where were you born? All your information from when you were young.
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 ; AF: Name is Arnan Finkelstein. I was born in April of 1937 in Tel Aviv under the British mandate. My father was an American citizen at the time, and we came to the states in October of 1941. 0 54 Arnan's Parents, George & ; Mina Finkelstein AF: My father lived in Allentown between the late twenties and early thirties and worked at his family’s textile mill in Allentown, the Arcadia Knitting Mills. During that period, the Arcadia Knitting Mills was a very successful knitting facility. It had an exclusive right in the United States to do something that was just invented called rayon. They had the exclusive right in women’s underwear fabrics. So during the depression, the Arcadia Knitting Mills was basically running around the clock and it was a very, very successful plant. My father did very, very well, from what he told me, he was making like a thousand dollars a month during the depression, which was a staggering amount of money. Something happened in ’33 between he and his uncles. There was some kind of a disagreement ; I never got a full answer on it. But he decided to retire in 1933. He decided then to go looking for a wife and went back to Poland where he knew of my mother. 0 267 1941: Emigrating from Tel Aviv to the United States AF: I remember a little bit about Tel Aviv. I was four years old when we left Tel Aviv. The reason we left, there were several. First of all, Europe was already at war. Germany was in, Rommel was in North Africa and was advancing toward Egypt, and the American Consul General in Jerusalem basically told my father that he could no longer protect him as an American citizen. Then there was an additional part from what my father told me, was that Congress, there was a law passed in 1941 that required all naturalized citizens to come back to the States by the end of ’41 or lose their American citizenship. I don’t have independent confirmation ; I’m only going by what my father or my parents told me. The Italians bombed Tel Aviv in early ’41 or late ’40. They were actually supposed to bomb the oil refineries in Haifa, but they couldn’t find them so they dropped a few bombs on Tel Aviv. I remember spending some nights in bomb shelters in the whole house my father built in Tel Aviv. And then we left Tel Aviv in the spring of ’41 and took a 70-day trip around Africa to come to the states. 0 432 The Garment and Needle-Trade Industry During WWII AF: During the Second World War, he used his contacts – well, a couple of things. All of the big manufacturers were involved in the war effort. So there was nobody doing very much of anything for the domestic market. He used some of his previous contacts from the Arcadia days to be able to buy fabric. He had a little sewing plant in New Brunswick, which manufactured women’s undergarments. He had some of the big New York stores as buyers. I think Bloomingdales and Saks and some of the others because they could not get it anywhere else. That business essentially folded at the end of World War Two, when the traditional manufacturers came back on stream. 
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 ; SC: So silk was used for parachutes?
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 ; AF: Yeah and that was obviously a rare commodity. Rayon was the closest manmade equivalent. 0 588 Moving from Highland Park, NJ to Allentown, PA AF: My father had started a knitting mill in Highland Park I think around 1950. It was a struggle ; he did not succeed over the long run because he was just too far away from the dye houses. He was a contractor there, meaning he was given yarn, which he then knit into fabric. The fabric would be then sent to a dye house, which would dye the fabric and ship to locations depending on the owner of the fabric. So my father did what was called commission knitting, and he got 10-12 cents a pound, whatever the number was. But, because he was in Allentown, the dye houses would not pick up freight free in Allentown. He had to pay freight to ship the goods to Reading or to other places in Pennsylvania, which took all the profit out of the business, so eventually the business folded. So we moved to Allentown in 1954, right after I graduated high school. 0 703 Work Experiences and College Education at Lehigh University AF: Once I got working papers, which was around 1950, I actually went to work for my father in the mill in Highland Park during the summers and typically not during the school period. So I was in the knitting industry I guess since I was about 13 years old. And then, when we moved to Allentown I went to Lehigh, so that was a period of time that I was not actively involved in the plant. 
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 ; SC: What did you study at Lehigh?
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 ; AF: Engineering physics.
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 ; SC: Perfect.
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 ; AF: It was probably the worst four years of my life, but other than that it was fine. 0 902 The Armed Forces—Doing Failure Analysis for the U.S. Armed Forces AF: I went through ROTC at Lehigh, and I was commissioned a second lieutenant upon graduation. And then, that August I went into the Air Force at the Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City. I spent three years in the Air Force doing essentially failure analysis. We would get pieces and parts of airplanes and engines and components and try to figure out why they failed. And then at the same time, the University of Oklahoma was just about, maybe 20 minutes away. So off hours, I was able to, I figured I had about 2/3 of a master’s degree in metallurgical engineering. 
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 ; SC: Did you find that the failure work that you did was helpful in business at all?
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 ; AF: Well, I think that even though I don’t have fond memories of the education part of Lehigh, I think that the scientific approach that I received was… I came from a very different perspective than anyone else in the business and I think it made a difference for our success. 0 1276 Family History AF: So this is the family story, as I understand it. My father’s mother was one of eighteen children. 
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 ; GE: Excuse me, What was her name? Your father’s name was George . . . 
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 ; AF: My father’s name was George and his mother’s name… I’ll have to take a pass. The last name was Povembrovsky. There were eighteen. Several of my father’s uncles came to the States around the beginning of the twentieth century. There was Isadore, there was Sam, and there was David. Those are the three that I know. Oh, and there was an Eli, as well. Some of the family went to Norway. As a matter of fact there was a Gibstein family that went to Norway. There was also part that stayed in Palestine. Yaakov Agam, the artist, was my father’s first cousin. His mother and my father’s mother were sisters. His name originally was Yaakov Gibstein. So that was part of that family. And so in probably the early ‘20s my father came to the States, around 1922. From what he told me, he left Poland, his mother smoked a turkey for him so that it would be preserved. He left Poland and started his trek across Europe until he got to, I believe Hamburg or Antwerp or something like that, for the trip to the States. 0 1792 George and Mina Finkelstein's Level of Observance SC: One thing that I wanted to just talk a little bit about was, were they religious? Were they very observant in Poland and in the United States?
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 ; AF: My father probably was more observant than my mother. I think my mother was in a more cosmopolitan space. I know that my father belonged to a shul in Allentown. Not Agudas Achim… the other one. I think, I'm not sure. There were two synagogues on Second Street and there was one right down the street. 
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 ; GE: Was that orthodox?
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 ; AF: They were both very orthodox. 0 1885 Family History (cont'd) AF: From the information that my mother gave me, my father is in the picture, obviously, his father, my father’s two sisters, brother and his aunt Hannah and apparently her husband, as well.
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 ; GE: About what year is that and where is that?
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 ; AF: This would have been at the farm in Poland and it’s probably – 
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 ; GE: Before 1922.
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 ; AF: No, it’s gonna be in the ‘30s. 
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 ; GE: Oh so he came back?
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 ; AF: Yes he came back. What he was able to do in addition, he was able to get his sister Shoshanna and his brother Shlomo out of Poland into Palestine in the ‘30s. He had to give them one thousand British pounds so that they could come into Palestine and demonstrate that they were not going to be a ward of the State or whatever. For some reason, I don’t know what happened with his other sisters, but they perished. In 1938, my parents took me, the prize one year old, to show off back in Poland. So, they tried to get my mother’s brother out of Poland but he said this was going to blow over. So he also perished. 0 2207 1922-33: George Finkelstein and the Arcadia Knitting Mills AF: [M]y father when he came to the states went right to work in the factory in Brooklyn. He got off the boat, he had twenty-five cents in his pocket, and he goes to work in the factory.
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 ; GE: This is around 1922?
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 ; AF: Yes this is around 1922. He worked his way up, first a mechanic, he learned how to take the machines apart and put them back together again. Eventually, because he was blood, he was family, they gave him more and more – he clearly, I think earned it – but his uncles gave him more and more responsibility, including, I think they actually set up a plant in Cherbourg, Canada, in which he was involved. Then there was the big move to Allentown in 1928-1929 ; they built the building at the south end of the Eighth Street bridge in Allentown, the Arcadia Knitting Mills. It was a multistory building ; most recently it was converted into the Bridgeview Apartments. That plant manufactured . . . in its heyday manufactured rayon fabrics for women’s undergarments. 0 2425 1941: End of the Arcadia Knitting Mills AF: [M]y father left in 1933 - they continued on but in 1941 the government condemned the building and essentially gave it to Mack Truck, which was next door, so that Mack Truck could expand, and they started making trucks and whatever for the war. So the Arcadia Knitting Mills essentially ended. 
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 ; GE: So the uncles ended at that point?
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 ; AF: The uncles ended the textile business.
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 ; GE: Interesting. What brought them from Brooklyn to –? 
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 ; AF: My understanding is that they liked the fact that there was a very steady highly competent workforce in Allentown with a good work ethic. 0 2596 The '40s: George Finkelstein's Manufacturing Business in NJ GE: [T]ell us a little about your father’s history. When he came back from Palestine to the U.S, just kind of gave us a little bit of that history with the business. I know he was in New Jersey.
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 ; AF: In New Jersey, he had a little sewing plant, cutting, he had access to some rayon fabric. He was able, because the traditional manufacturers could no longer supply the big department stores ; my father was able to sell to the big department stores in New York and Philadelphia . . . women’s undergarments that he manufactured in New Brunswick. 0 2750 1954: George Finkelstein Becomes a Contractor in Allentown, PA AF: So he decided in 1954 to move back to Allentown, bought into a partnership with Sam Boxer. I think Sam’s brother decided to get out. I think it was Lou Boxer, he bought Lou Boxer’s portion of the business. They spent a year or two together and they decided to split. My father went on his own in, I think, probably 1956.
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 ; GE: And you came in at what time, what year?
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 ; AF: We moved to Allentown in 1954.
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 ; GE: You joined your father what year?
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 ; AF: After the Air Force in 1961 0 2985 1961: Arnan Finkelstein Joins the Family Business GE: So now why don’t you tell us about once you entered the business with your father?
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 ; AF: Well I had worked for him on and off from 1950 through high school and in college a little bit, but I joined my father in 1961. As I said, it was right at the beginning of the synthetic boom of stretch nylon. I think my father was one of the first people to try to knit stretch nylon. Stretch nylon was initially a product that was developed by a Swiss company called Helenka [?]. They had taken raw fibers of nylon, and had developed a process where they would send it through a heated tube and it would crimp the nylon so that essentially a foot of raw nylon going in may have been 3 inches going out. But, it was crimped and had stretch. It was used in leotards in the stocking industry. The original nylon stockings were made out of that type of fabric. My father had a friend who gave him twenty spools of yarn with just a little bit of yarn on it to try and run it on an interlock-knitting machine. He was able to do that and came out with a very nice fabric that was stretched in two ways. And then I’m sure other people were experimenting at the same time. Then it just skyrocketed from there. 0 3161 Cotton Versus Synthetics AF: All of a sudden, almost overnight, synthetics. The cotton is out. Knitting cotton was a very - it was a dirty process. What happened is, as you were knitting the cotton, some of the staple would come off as fuzz and there was fuzz all over the place. As a matter of fact, my father was allergic to it. He ended up taking some of the fuzz and they made a serum and injected him with it so he could actually tolerate it and be in the factory. But there was stuff hanging all over the place. As soon as synthetics came in it was clean, it was almost an unbelievable transformation. 
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 ; GE: What is interesting is you’re saying why this synthetic is so nice is the production got much better. How about at the end use? Isn’t it also a better product for the consumer?
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 ; AF: Well it was a very top-notch product at the time. When it compared to cotton, it was probably less expensive than cotton, but it performed, it washed, it kept its shape after many washes. It was an ideal fabric for children. 0 3448 The '60-70s: Evolution in Name, Products, and Business Practices GE: During what time frame would you say this lasted? From 1961 until when?
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 ; AF: ‘61 until it lasted into the early ‘70s. 
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 ; GE: So for a good ten years.
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 ; AF: We sold our business in 1968. In 1967, we built a dye house. We had the knitting mill on South Albert Street, in Allentown. And then my father bought…
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 ; GE: What was the name of your knitting mill?
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 ; AF: It started out as Allentown Knitting Mill. There was Lehigh Weaving Company because the building he bought had the name associated with it. Eventually Lehigh Knitting Mills became available, and someone else had the name, but gave it up. So we had those names. Then we had Syntex Dyeing and Finishing. My father purchased an old Sears warehouse on Union Boulevard and we converted that into a dye house. 0 3674 1968: George Finkelstein's Retirement and the Emergence of Unions GE: So then you sold it in ’68, and at that point, your family was then out of…
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 ; AF: Well, my father retired at that point, and I stayed on as president of the new manufacturing organization. My father had already expanded ; we had a knitting mill in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. So we had the knitting mill in Allentown, the knitting mill in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, and the dye house in Allentown. When we sold to Duplan, Duplan had purchased a company out in California that had a knitting mill. So I became responsible for that plant as well.
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 ; GE: What drove you to North Carolina?
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 ; AF: Help. Labor. 
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 ; GE: What was the difficulty with the labor here? Was it not as plentiful?
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 ; AF: I think there was the competition for knitters. The Fairtex was union. In order to compete, we had to keep up with union style wages. 0 3857 Employee Numbers, Wages, & ; Contracts GE: At this point, the family also had a plant down in North Carolina. In terms of employees, you said you had about 40?
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 ; AF: All together, at peak, I had about 400 people working for me.
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 ; GE: Is that already once you were bought out or before?
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 ; AF: Afterwards. 
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 ; GE: After you were bought out. 
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 ; AF: We expanded some after we were bought. We expanded the dye house and we expanded the knitting mill, so it was at peak. Probably before we sold it must have been somewhere in the 200-250. 0 4107 The '60s: Attempts at Merging the Manufacturing, Sales, & ; Retail Industries—"Stretch Knit" GE: My father had, right around the time that I joined, he had a friend in the textile industry that was a high power salesman in New York. Clarence Ross had the sales agency, my father had the manufacturing, and the two of them formed a 50-50 partnership to sell stretch nylon to the trade. That company was called Stretch Knit. 
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 ; GE: Stretch Knit is the one who is making it?
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 ; AF: Stretch Knit was the product that the sales agency was selling to the trade. It was the position of a middleman but it was a way of getting two separate companies owning a third to be able to service the industry. 
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 ; GE: You say by trade you mean the retailers?
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 ; AF: The manufacturers. 0 4266 1968: Selling to Duplan AF: I remember after meeting in New York I came back to my father and said we are never going to make a deal. That’s when we sold the business. So we had thought about going the private route.
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 ; GE: And then with Duplan your father retired?
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 ; AF: My father retired.
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 ; GE: You became the CEO it sounds like.
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 ; AF: The head of manufacturing. Eventually, a year or so later, Duplan bought the sales agency. So even though the sales agency continued to sell our product now owned by Duplan, there was some tension but eventually it worked out and was back under one roof. 
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 ; GE: And how long did you stay as…?
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 ; AF: I had a five-year contract with Duplan that I guess after 3 and a half years, we agreed to disagree. 0 4397 The '70s: Decline of the Textile and Needle-Trade Industry AF: I stepped out in May of 1972. And then the business, and I don’t think there is a cause or a relationship, but the overall business started not long thereafter to decline. It declined in my view because not only were people like Duplan buying knitters, but the big weaving companies were buying knitting mills as well. Weavers had the Cohen mills, the Burlington’s, people that were making sheets and towels and shirt fabrics and stuff like that. They had a mindset of you set up a loom and three years later you change it. So they were at very long run productions, very low margins. Knitting mills were very versatile. We had a hundred knitting machines in Allentown, within a few days ; I could pretty much change every one of them to something else. Because of its versatility and because of its smallness, there was a very high margin product as well. I think that weaver became very jealous of the high profit margins of the knitting mills. But when they bought the knitting mills, they started to impose their mindset. So before polyester became a dirty word, it was a very high performing product. 0 4732 1978-81: Working for Stretchini's Dyeing Company AF: In 1978, one of the people I knew from Stretchini, they approached me to help a company that he was involved with to run the dye house. So they bought the dye house in Allentown, our old dye house.
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 ; GE: Stretchini.
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 ; AF: Not Stretchini. It was a company out of Pottsville that bought the plant in Allentown and I helped run that. I think I joined them in ’78.
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 ; GE: And how long did you do that?
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 ; AF: I think it was around ’78 to ’81. And again I guess I wasn’t cut out to be in the corporate world. I basically was the head of the plant in Allentown, but there was a lot of interference from people that really didn’t know what they were talking about. 0 4868 Evolution of the Jewish Community—Impact of the Textile and Needle-Trade Industry AF: Well I met a few Jewish kids the summer that I moved to Allentown. It was softball in the summer, maybe a little basketball during the winter months. But, as far as my involvement, my parents belonged to Beth El and my mother and father were regular goers. We would go Friday night quite often. My mother became president of the sisterhood. In fact, Marlene and I met at Beth El.
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 ; GE: So Marlene grew up in this area?
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 ; AF: No. She had an aunt that moved here - whose husband owned Dobnoff’s - the women’s dress store on Hamilton Street. The aunt lived next door to a friend of my mother’s who saw her picture and her next-door neighbor made the Shiddach, the connection. So we met, I was in the Air Force, I was home on leave and Marlene finished finals. 0 5158 Reasons for Jewish Involvement in the Textile and Needle-Trade Industry GE: How do you think your family, especially your uncles, because they were really the first, how do you think they got involved in the needle trade industry? Why in the needle trade industry? 
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 ; AF: I don’t know.
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 ; GE: Why do you think that there definitely was a Jewish propensity in the needle trade industry compared to some other industries? Any thoughts?
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 ; AF: I think it is typical. There is a vacuum that somebody doesn’t want to fill and a vacuum that somebody does want to fill. 0 5249 Arnan's Creative Inspirations and Values SC: So now my first question is what has made you feel the most creative or the most satisfied in your life or maybe that has given you a sense of artistry in your life in the broadest sense?
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 ; AF: I think I had a good time fooling around with the designs of the knitting machines, or the fabric rather. We’d come up with different combinations of yarn and different colors to see if we could make something interesting. That was a fun time. In addition to nylon, there were two types of polyester we were using. One you could not dye at all and the other one could be dyed, so you could end up getting three colors. So that was a fun thing to play around with and for me personally, I think photography has become a place where I get my creative jollies taken care of. 0 5391 Arnan and Marlene's Involvement in the Jewish and Allentown Communities AF: We were very active in Beth El. Marlene was on sisterhood and I was executive vice president. I had been asked to become president of Beth El. But we got involved, we were in I guess the epicenter of the politics that occurred about 35 years ago. It had to do with our daughter’s bat-mitzvah. We had a situation, I mean she was a day school alum ; she went to Camp Ramah, very competent in Hebrew and the prayers and whatever. We wanted her bat-mitzvah where she could maximize her involvement, and Beth El at the time looked to minimize the involvement of the kids. So we kind of parted ways and we were instrumental in starting Am Haskalah at the time. During that period of time we were very actively involved. I was at the Jewish committee, one time I was on four boards. I was president of the Federation for a while ; ’78-’80 I think. I was involved with the day school, with the center, with Beth El. 0 MovingImage Arnan Finkelstein talks about being born in Tel Aviv, Palestine (this is prior to the establishment of the State of Israel) and spending his young childhood there. In the early 1940s, during World War II, the Finkelstein family returned to the U.S. When they returned to the U.S., Arnan’s father manufactured women’s undergarments during the war. After the war, Arnan’s father returned to owning a knitting mill, which he did prior to living in Tel Aviv. Arnan entered the family business in 1961. At this time synthetic fabrics were being developed and the Finkelsteins were active in this. After Arnan’s father sold the business in the late 1960s, Arnan stayed involved in different textile enterprises until 1981. Interview with Arnan Finkelstein, May 15, 2014 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: I am going to ask you a little bit about your family first. If you could start with yourself and then we will go backwards. What is your full name? Where were you born? All your information from when you were young. ARNAN FINKELSTEIN: Name is Arnan Finkelstein. I was born in April of 1937 in Tel Aviv under the British mandate. My father was an American citizen at the time, and we came to the states in October of 1941. SC: Why were you in Tel Aviv at that point? AF: It starts with my parents' decision. My father lived in Allentown between the late twenties and early thirties and worked at his family's textile mill in Allentown, the Arcadia Knitting Mills. During that period, the Arcadia Knitting Mills was a very successful knitting facility. It had an exclusive right in the United States to do something that was just invented called rayon. They had the exclusive right in women's underwear fabrics. So during the depression, the Arcadia Knitting Mills was basically running around the clock and it was a very, very successful plant. My father did very, very well, from what he told me, he was making like a thousand dollars a month during the depression, which was a staggering amount of money. Something happened in '33 between he and his uncles. There was some kind of a disagreement ; I never got a full answer on it. But he decided to retire in 1933. He decided then to go looking for a wife and went back to Poland where he knew of my mother. There was about a six-year difference in age. He knew of her and started courting her. I think she turned him down once or twice and eventually did accept his proposal. He was a U.S. citizen by that time so as a result of that, he gave her the choice of either moving to the States or moving to Palestine, where he had been on several occasions in an attempt to make arrangements for his grandmother's burial in Jerusalem. So my mother apparently chose Palestine and Tel Aviv, in the early-mid thirties was a brand new city. It was roughly thirty years old. It was gleaming white. It was designed architecturally there was the Bauhaus and a lot of then-contemporary design. In fact, I think Tel Aviv is on the UN registry of architecture, mainly because of the Bauhaus influence. It was a very, very good life. GAIL EISNEBERG: What were the names of your mother and father? AF: My father was George Finkelstein and my mother was Mina, M-I-N-A, her maiden name was Zupnitsky. She was from Augustow, Poland. SC: Could you spell that? AF: I'll try. A-U-G-U-S-T-O-V. [official spelling is with a "w" at the end, not "v"] SC: Oh, I meant your mother's name. AF: Well, there is how I spell it and I see the correspondence how she spells it. Z-U-P-N-I-T-S-K-Y would be the way it would be transliterated into English. In Polish there were C's and J's and all sorts of other things in there. SC: Can you can talk a little bit about when you were a child, as far back as you know. And then we'll place you back in the family in the business. AF: I remember a little bit about Tel Aviv. I was four years old when we left Tel Aviv. The reason we left, there were several. First of all, Europe was already at war. Germany was in, Rommel was in North Africa and was advancing toward Egypt, and the American Consul General in Jerusalem basically told my father that he could no longer protect him as an American citizen. Then there was an additional part from what my father told me, was that Congress, there was a law passed in 1941 that required all naturalized citizens to come back to the States by the end of '41 or lose their American citizenship. I don't have independent confirmation ; I'm only going by what my father or my parents told me. The Italians bombed Tel Aviv in early '41 or late '40. They were actually supposed to bomb the oil refineries in Haifa, but they couldn't find them so they dropped a few bombs on Tel Aviv. I remember spending some nights in bomb shelters in the whole house my father built in Tel Aviv. And then we left Tel Aviv in the spring of '41 and took a 70-day trip around Africa to come to the states. SC: That was the safest way? AF: That was the only way. The Mediterranean was at war, the British and the Germans and Italians were, you know, it was an active warzone. Even as we crossed the South Atlantic, in probably the fall of 1941, I have recollection of spending nights in the lifeboats because they were afraid that they would be torpedoed or attacked by German raiders at any time. SC: Wow. So you arrived in the United States, and where did you grow up? AR: I grew up primarily, by 1942, we were living in New Brunswick, New Jersey. And then, in '48 we moved to Highland Park, New Jersey, which was right across the river from New Brunswick. So through high school I was in Highland Park. SC: Was your dad involved, when you were a child, in any of the garment or knitting industry? AR: During the Second World War, he used his contacts -- well, a couple of things. All of the big manufacturers were involved in the war effort. So there was nobody doing very much of anything for the domestic market. He used some of his previous contacts from the Arcadia days to be able to buy fabric. He had a little sewing plant in New Brunswick, which manufactured women's undergarments. He had some of the big New York stores as buyers. I think Bloomingdales and Saks and some of the others because they could not get it anywhere else. That business essentially folded at the end of World War Two, when the traditional manufacturers came back on stream. SC: So silk was used for parachutes? AF: Yeah and that was obviously a rare commodity. Rayon was the closest manmade equivalent. GE: Did they have a patent on rayon? AF: That patent was with a company in England, called Clourtaulds, which was the company that held the rayon. Arcadia Knitting Mills had the exclusive right in the U.S. in women's undergarments, for use in women's undergarments. SC: This is a little off topic, but did you hear that the success in nylon and rayon really pushed out the silk mills in Allentown, little by little? AF: Nylon doesn't come in until much later. I understand that rayon had a significant role in that, yes. SC: Yes, that was the cutting edge. Your uncles were really smart. AF: Yes, they were really active, they had 1200 knitting machines in Allentown running around the clock, manufacturing the fabric. My father, from what he said, the plant was originally in Brooklyn, and it was moved to Allentown in 1929. Apparently, he was responsible for building the building in South 8th Street and then he was the production manager during that period of time. SC: Before he decided to leave? AF: Before he decided to leave, yes. SC: So you went to school in New Jersey? AF: I went through high school in Highland Park. SC: When did you come to Allentown? AF: My father had started a knitting mill in Highland Park I think around 1950. It was a struggle ; he did not succeed over the long run because he was just too far away from the dye houses. He was a contractor there, meaning he was given yarn, which he then knit into fabric. The fabric would be then sent to a dye house, which would dye the fabric and ship to locations depending on the owner of the fabric. So my father did what was called commission knitting, and he got 10-12 cents a pound, whatever the number was. But, because he was in Allentown, the dye houses would not pick up freight free in Allentown. He had to pay freight to ship the goods to Reading or to other places in Pennsylvania, which took all the profit out of the business, so eventually the business folded. So we moved to Allentown in 1954, right after I graduated high school, and my father bought into a partnership with Sam Boxer, almost an identical knitting mill that he had in Highland Park, but it was located in Allentown and meant that the dye houses in Reading made a daily run to pick up the fabric and so there was no additional cost. SC: Is that the B-O-X-E-R? AF: B-O-X-E-R. SC: If you could talk a little bit about where you worked your entire life, from a paperboy or whatever, all the way through to your business. AF: Once I got working papers, which was around 1950, I actually went to work for my father in the mill in Highland Park during the summers and typically not during the school period. So I was in the knitting industry I guess since I was about 13 years old. And then, when we moved to Allentown I went to Lehigh, so that was a period of time that I was not actively involved in the plant. SC: What did you study at Lehigh? AF: Engineering physics. SC: Perfect. AF: It was probably the worst four years of my life, but other than that it was fine. SC: Was that because of Lehigh being-- Lehigh? AF: Well, first of all, my parents when they moved to Allentown were basically busted. The only money they had was from selling the house that they had in Highland Park, which went into buying the partnership. I think it was like $7,000 or something like that. I remember that previous Passover, my parents had to borrow money for that. It was a very difficult period of time in the very beginning. So Lehigh-- I commuted. When I was in high school, I had applied to Rutgers because we lived in Highland Park and money was tight so I was going to be commuting. And then we moved to Allentown and that summer I was studying for the SATs in order to be able to get into Lehigh, and we lived in the Tremont Apartments. My parents, my sister and I were in a two-bedroom apartment. Until 1957 we were in that apartment and it was a tough school environment because of Lehigh. Even more so than now, there was no grade inflation. Of my freshman class, barely over half graduated on time. I was lucky enough to be in that part that graduated on time. It was a grind, 8 o'clock classes, six days a week. It was not fun. SC: All male? AF: All male except for a couple of women teachers. SC: Did you commute there? AF: I did. My parents got me a car, and I commuted every day. SC: Better to have a car and commute than to live at Lehigh and be without a car. AF: Well, my parents tell me, and I don't remember, that they had offered me the opportunity of living on campus and I don't remember having that choice, but it's possible. SC: So, then after you graduated from Lehigh, where did you work? AF: I went through ROTC at Lehigh, and I was commissioned a second lieutenant upon graduation. And then, that August I went into the Air Force at the Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City. I spent three years in the Air Force doing essentially failure analysis. We would get pieces and parts of airplanes and engines and components and try to figure out why they failed. And then at the same time, the University of Oklahoma was just about, maybe 20 minutes away. So off hours, I was able to, I figured I had about 2/3 of a master's degree in metallurgical engineering. SC: Did you find that the failure work that you did was helpful in business at all? AF: Well, I think that even though I don't have fond memories of the education part of Lehigh, I think that the scientific approach that I received was-- I came from a very different perspective than anyone else in the business and I think it made a difference for our success. SC: After the service, did you go overseas at all? AF: No. Not part of the service. I was in between Korea, before Berlin. I went overseas but it was not part of my work. I did go to Bermuda for an airplane inspection trip. But other than that, I did my work in Oklahoma City and went up to Boeing Aircraft in Seattle on a couple of occasions. SC: That's nice. AF: It was fun. I got a chance to do some fun things, good things in the Air Force. SC: After the Air Force, then what did you do? AF: I left the service in August of '61, but I was working on a project as part of my master's program. So I stayed on until November, until my father kind of made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. By that time, he had separated from Boxer ; had his own plant in South 12th Street in the Vultee industrial area. I just happened to see my last pay from the Air Force ; I was making like $5,700 a year. My father offered me $200 a week to join him in the business. GE: $200 a week. AF: A week. I'm sorry, $200 a week to join him in the business. So that was a lot of money and I certainly was familiar. I had worked in the summers for him, in youth facility so certainly I was quite familiar with what was involved. So I joined him in November/December of 1961. SC: In doing so, did you ever look back at where you might have gone, at all, or was this something that . . . ? AF: The first time I went to Boeing, I was a spanking new second lieutenant with one really shiny gold bar on each shoulder. I went to Seattle because the lad, who was a civilian, and I were going to inspect Curt Lemay's aircraft for a potential defect that was found in the B47. The KC-135, which was a forerunner of the 707 Boeing Jetliner, was just beginning to enter service, and they were concerned that some of the issues that were affecting the B47 might affect the 707 KC-135. So, Curt Lemay's aircraft was the most flown aircraft in the Air Force Fleet. So the Air Force decided, or Boeing decided this is the plane they wanted inspected. So I went out to Seattle and Moses Lake at their Tufts facility to examine his aircraft. SC: Did you ever look back on what you might have done? AF: We're in Boeing, before I got there, I was treated like royalty. People were opening doors, yes sir, no sir. And then they took me into a room where if I had gone to work for Boeing, I would have been. It was a room that went as far as the eye could see. And there were desks. And there were four desks that were butted together and in the center of the space of four desks was a single telephone on a revolving spindle that the four engineers shared. And I said, "Oh my God." So that was my first inkling that maybe my career path wasn't the one that would have been the best. And I had some other contact with jet engine manufacturers like Pratt & ; Whitney and General Electric. The corporate world got to be less and less appealing. SC: Can we move back now and talk as far back about your family as you know, and put you into some context coming from Poland? AF: Okay. So this is the family story, as I understand it. My father's mother was one of eighteen children. GE: Excuse me, What was her name? Your father's name was George . . . AF: My father's name was George and his mother's name-- I'll have to take a pass. The last name was Povembrovsky. There were eighteen. Several of my father's uncles came to the States around the beginning of the twentieth century. There was Isadore, there was Sam, and there was David. Those are the three that I know. Oh, and there was an Eli, as well. Some of the family went to Norway. As a matter of fact there was a Gibstein family that went to Norway. There was also part that stayed in Palestine. Yaakov Agam, the artist, was my father's first cousin. His mother and my father's mother were sisters. His name originally was Yaakov Gibstein. So that was part of that family. And so in probably the early '20s my father came to the States, around 1922. From what he told me, he left Poland, his mother smoked a turkey for him so that it would be preserved. He left Poland and started his trek across Europe until he got to, I believe Hamburg or Antwerp or something like that, for the trip to the States. GE: And the community they lived in in Poland, what was the name? AF: I believe it was Grodno, G-R-O-D-N-O, something like that. It was a farm that the Finkelstein (pronouncing it as Finkelshtein), as they pronounced it then, clan, there were several-- my grandfather, my father's father, several of his brothers and sisters I guess, were on the land. Apparently it was deeded to my father's grandfather for services rendered to Czar Nicholas. We don't know what those services were. It was Nicholas the First, not the Second. So that is the time frame where the land in Poland, or it was Russia, wherever it was at the time, was deeded to the Finkelstein family. SC: Which was unusual. AF: Which was very unusual. SC: So they were farmers. Do you know any other occupations that people had? Were they all on the land? AF: I know that my father, my mother's father, before he was prevented from doing so, was a-- I don't know the term, but he was allowed to buy forestland, or at least lease forestland and to cut the trees down for timber. Like logging. He obviously didn't have a chain saw or whatever, but I know that some of the better timber he sold to the shipyards in Gdansk, or Danzig as it was, for masted sail ships. GE: His last name? AF: Z-U-P-N-I-T-S-K-Y is how I would spell it. GE: And do you know what her father's name is? AF: Sholom SC: So, he could sell that. AF: He cut down the trees ; sell the very finest for masts and the rest would go for heating or paper. And then he was prevented. At some point the Polish government said that Jews were no longer allowed to do that. SC: Would they have been living in what was considered the Jewish Pale? AF: I don't think so. My mother grew up in Augustow. She went to school in Warsaw High School, and then she actually went to the University of Warsaw. GE: Wow, so they were really in central Poland, not Eastern? AF: Yes. She never graduated. I think the offer my father made her for whatever reason ; she left Poland a semester before graduating. But she spoke eight languages at one time. She spoke German, Polish, French, Yiddish, Hebrew, and English. We found a recipe book of hers after she passed away, that started out in Polish and then went into French and then ended up in Hebrew. GE: So it sounds like her family was on the more affluent side? AF: To begin with. GE: Until they took away his businesses? AF: Right. My mother had to pay her own way to go to gymnasium, the high school. She would work as a nanny, she worked as a tutor. So she basically had to support herself through high school and college. SC: So your father's family and your mother's family, they did have connections before you went back to Poland? AF: I don't know that they did. My father was a "Am Ha-Aretz," a man of the land. He was not cultured and not cultivated. He was very street smart. During the First World War he told stories of how the farm was on the moveable border between Germany and Poland and Russia. He told about how he hated the Poles. He never learned Polish. Life under German in World War One was by far better than under the Poles or the Russians. Life under German control -- GE: Even in World War Two? AF: World War One. They were basically left to be autonomous. He also remembers, he told stories of how he smuggled people across in a hay wagon across the border from Poland into Germany. So he was that kind of-- he was probably no good-nick at some point, but he learned very hard, had to fight his way to school several times a week to get to school. SC: Very smart, just maybe not as book smart. AF: He was very, very street smart. My mother was very, very cultured, smart. SC: So do you know anything else about their lives? Any of the family, or anybody that was in a trade like tailoring or garments? I'm trying to make a link. AF: No, I don't. I don't at all. I know that my father eventually helped his father buy out all of the other Finkelsteins from the land, but I don't know what they ended up going into. GE: And that was still in Poland? AF: That was still in Poland, in probably the early '30s. SC: One thing that I wanted to just talk a little bit about was, were they religious? Were they very observant in Poland and in the United States? AF: My father probably was more observant than my mother. I think my mother was in a more cosmopolitan space. I know that my father belonged to a shul in Allentown. Not Agudas Achim-- the other one. I think, I'm not sure. There were two synagogues on Second Street and there was one right down the street. GE: Was that orthodox? AF: They were both very orthodox. They were both very orthodox. He belonged to one of them. I know that he wouldn't cross the street to go to the other one. I don't know what level of observant. Although I know that when we moved back to the states, in New Brunswick, we belonged to an orthodox synagogue in New Brunswick until we moved to Highland Park, where we joined a conservative congregation. Which was pretty right wing conservative back in those days. *Looking at a picture* AF: This is my mother's family . . . From the information that my mother gave me, my father is in the picture, obviously, his father, my father's two sisters, brother and his aunt Hannah and apparently her husband, as well. GE: About what year is that and where is that? AF: This would have been at the farm in Poland and it's probably -- GE: Before 1922. AF: No, it's gonna be in the '30s. GE: Oh so he came back? AF: Yes he came back. What he was able to do in addition, he was able to get his sister Shoshanna and his brother Shlomo out of Poland into Palestine in the '30s. He had to give them one thousand British pounds so that they could come into Palestine and demonstrate that they were not going to be a ward of the State or whatever. For some reason, I don't know what happened with his other sisters, but they perished. In 1938, my parents took me, the prize one year old, to show off back in Poland. So, they tried to get my mother's brother out of Poland but he said this was going to blow over. So he also perished. SC: So you were there a year before, in '38, a year before the Nazi Soviet pact. So is there anything else with family that you can think of that we haven't asked. I asked how observant they were. How about their relationship with the community? I think you talked about it. AF: My father was very bad as I indicated. He had nothing but enmity for the Poles, and I'm sure it was returned as well. That was not a good situation. My mother grew up ; they had a piano in the house. She learned how to play piano. It was a very different environment. I think, I guess it was in Bialystok ; she had very fond memories of spending time at the lakes with her cousins and friends and whatever. On one level she spoke of a very idealic life in Poland. On the other hand, she left, and I'm not sure exactly what prompted her to not finish university, to rethink her rejection of my father's overtures and to . . .. I really don't know what happened there, but she obviously made the right decision in the long run for herself and us. GE: Did your mother talk about her friends and cousins? Were they all Jewish? In other words, was she just part of the nice . . . AF: I think they were all Jewish. GE: So you don't know about her relationship with the broader Polish community? AF: No, not at all. SC: I have a couple other questions at the end to ask you. GE: Is that a family tree? AF: This is a family tree. It's limited. It was done for our daughter Alana's bat-mitzvah. It goes back quite a few years. GE: Maybe afterwards we can just make a copy of that? AF: Sure. GE: So now we just want to find out a little bit more to understand better about the business. If you want to share with us, how the business originated? I think you had said it with your uncles. If you would just share with us how it originated, what was the specific business, who were their suppliers, who were their customers, what were they making? Those kinds of things. AF: My knowledge of this is fairly sketchy. What I do know is that my father when he came to the states went right to work in the factory in Brooklyn. He got off the boat, he had twenty-five cents in his pocket, and he goes to work in the factory. GE: This is around 1922? AF: Yes this is around 1922. He worked his way up, first a mechanic, he learned how to take the machines apart and put them back together again. Eventually, because he was blood, he was family, they gave him more and more -- he clearly, I think earned it -- but his uncles gave him more and more responsibility, including, I think they actually set up a plant in Cherbourg, Canada, in which he was involved. Then there was the big move to Allentown in 1928-1929 ; they built the building at the south end of the Eighth Street bridge in Allentown, the Arcadia Knitting Mills. It was a multistory building ; most recently it was converted into the Bridgeview Apartments. That plant manufactured . . . in its heyday manufactured rayon fabrics for women's undergarments. GE: Tell us a little bit about the process. In other words, what were their raw materials, what did they sell? AF: The raw material was rayon that was delivered on spools. Whether it was manufactured in England where it was invented, or whether Courtaulds had built a plant in the states, I don't know. They were getting regular shipments of rayon. They had, from what I understand, 1200 tricot machines, which is a kind of knitting machine. They also had a dye house in Allentown, which after the fabric was knit into rolls, they would be dyed to a particular color and then shipped to either converters or someone else who would cut the fabric into garments. Arcadia was only involved in the manufacture and dying of the fabric. GE: So they were both manufacturers and they were the dyers? AF: Right. GE: And I think you had said that they were the only manufacturer of rayon? AF: They had for some period an exclusive right to rayon for use in women's undergarment fabric for quite some time, especially during the early and mid thirties. GE: Of women's undergarments, do you know let's say rayon made up what percentage? AF: I don't know. GE: Otherwise, what was it made of? Cotton? AF: It was cotton, I think if it was very upscale it would have been silk. Rayon was a silk-like product, synthetic and much more readily available than silk. GE: And much cheaper. AF: Much cheaper. GE: So this probably had the majority of the market. AF: I think it must have, considering how busy they were during a particularly trying time in the United States ; they must have been doing a very large portion of the business. And they continued on until - my father left in 1933 - they continued on but in 1941 the government condemned the building and essentially gave it to Mack Truck, which was next door, so that Mack Truck could expand, and they started making trucks and whatever for the war. So the Arcadia Knitting Mills essentially ended. GE: So the uncles ended at that point? AF: The uncles ended the textile business. GE: Interesting. What brought them from Brooklyn to --? AF: My understanding is that they liked the fact that there was a very steady highly competent workforce in Allentown with a good work ethic. As a matter of fact, in preparation for this, I tried to do a little research, but the Morning Call archives only go to '84. I don't know whether their . . . whatever. But I did find an obituary of someone who worked at the Arcadia Knitting Mills as a knitter who passed away at 94, some years ago. GE: With that labor force, it was a plentiful, good work ethic. How about in terms of their salaries, compared to New York salaries? AF: I don't know, I can't answer that. GE: Was it unionized? AF: I don't think so. GE: They sold to cutters? AF: They sold to utters or manufacturers of the garment. It depends on how vertically integrated they were. GE: Okay. After your uncles left Arcadia in 1941, then really Arcadia ceased to exist? Is that correct? AF: That's my understanding. GE: Were your uncles ever again in the business? AF: I think they were quite wealthy and they moved out to California and got involved in other things. GE: Okay. SC: Have you seen the Allentown 225th book? I know it's mentioned in there. I'll copy the page. AF: I'd like to see it. GE: Of Arcadia? SC: Yeah. It's mentioned. GE: Was that one of the first knitting mills in this area? AF: If it wasn't one of the first, it was certainly the largest. GE: Okay. So then you were saying that your father -- tell us a little about your father's history. When he came back from Palestine to the U.S, just kind of gave us a little bit of that history with the business. I know he was in New Jersey. AF: In New Jersey, he had a little sewing plant, cutting, he had access to some rayon fabric. He was able, because the traditional manufacturers could no longer supply the big department stores ; my father was able to sell to the big department stores in New York and Philadelphia . . . women's undergarments that he manufactured in New Brunswick. GE: So now he was a manufacturer, not the knitter, and not the big fabric maker. AF: Right. GE: And do you want to just share with us why the large manufacturers were not--during the war? AF: During the war, the large manufacturers obviously turned into making uniforms and parachutes and all sorts of other things. And so they were out of the supply of domestic products. GE: Right. So it gave an opportunity for small-- AF: Yes. My father and a few women in a storefront making garments. During the war he did nicely, relatively well. GE: Right. After the war-- AF: After that war, that business completely evaporated. The traditional manufacturers came back into the mainstream. He tried a few different things without much success. He considered taking the family back to Israel, by this time. But that was even a tougher road to do I think in '49 and 1950 and so. Then he decided to try his hand again in the knitting mill and he bought some knitting machines and set up a small factory in Highland Park, New Jersey. GE: What made him move from there to Allentown? AF: The plant in Highland Park failed because they were too far away from the dye house area, which was typically in Reading, and he had to pay freight to ship the unfinished fabric to the dye house and that basically took away all profits. GE: So that took away all profits. AF: There was no profit. So he decided in 1954 to move back to Allentown, bought into a partnership with Sam Boxer. I think Sam's brother decided to get out. I think it was Lou Boxer, he bought Lou Boxer's portion of the business. They spent a year or two together and they decided to split. My father went on his own in, I think, probably 1956. GE: And you came in at what time, what year? AF: We moved to Allentown in 1954. GE: You joined your father what year? AF: After the Air Force in 1961. GE: Okay about 5 years later. So during those 5 years, your father was-- AF: A contract knitter knitting other people's yarn into fabric. At that time it was almost exclusively cotton. GE: So it was no longer the rayon? AF: No. No longer rayon. GE: The cotton was ultimately being made into what kinds of products? AF: The machines he had at the time were called interlock machines. The fabric went into polo shirts and . . . I mean, it was a very fine fabric. It's still being used today. Many of your better golf shirts are knit in the interlock machine out of 100% cotton or poly-cotton. That still is the standard for golf shirts, that material. GE: Who were some of your father's major customers? AF: I can't tell you that. I don't know. These were names that wouldn't have meant anything. GE: Okay. They're not necessarily brands that we know. AF: No. They were typically people who bought the yarn and had it knit up, and then would go out and try and sell the fabric to end users or cutters or whatever. They typically are called converters. All the business was done over the telephone or a handshake at most. There were thousands of dollars of goods transferred without ever a contract. GE: So when your father was doing this, were there many other knitting mills in the area here? AF: In New Brunswick, there were none that I'm aware of. In Allentown, there were a few. The Krasnov family was involved, Surefit was doing things like this on a larger scale, and there was another Krasnov that was doing it on some scale. But not a lot. GE: There was enough business that the 3, or 4, or 5 knitters who existed, there were enough customers? AF: Yeah. I mean, Boxer went off on his own. There were others that went . . . In 1961 before the synthetic boom, there were a few. After the synthetic boom started, which started just about the time when I joined my father in 1961, it became an entirely different thing in Allentown. GE: Okay. We'll hear about that in just a minute. SC: May I ask, how is Krasnov spelled? AF: I think K-R-A-S-N-O-V. GE: So now why don't you tell us about once you entered the business with your father? AF: Well I had worked for him on and off from 1950 through high school and in college a little bit, but I joined my father in 1961. As I said, it was right at the beginning of the synthetic boom of stretch nylon. I think my father was one of the first people to try to knit stretch nylon. Stretch nylon was initially a product that was developed by a Swiss company called Helenka [?]. They had taken raw fibers of nylon, and had developed a process where they would send it through a heated tube and it would crimp the nylon so that essentially a foot of raw nylon going in may have been 3 inches going out. But, it was crimped and had stretch. It was used in leotards in the stocking industry. The original nylon stockings were made out of that type of fabric. My father had a friend who gave him twenty spools of yarn with just a little bit of yarn on it to try and run it on an interlock-knitting machine. He was able to do that and came out with a very nice fabric that was stretched in two ways. And then I'm sure other people were experimenting at the same time. Then it just skyrocketed from there. GE: I thought DuPont. AF: DuPont had invented nylon, but Helenka in Switzerland developed the process for crimping the nylon. GE: Interesting. So DuPont developed the nylon and then they did this particular . . . AF: Post processing GE: . . . . post process that made it possible to become a fabric. AF: Yes. The typical nylon that DuPont made was you could make a rope out of it. GE: I thought even the parachutes. AF: Yes. Like sheet type fabrics, woven fabrics, not knitted into anything. SC: Better living through chemistry. AF: Better living through chemistry. That was Chemstrand, though. They they had their own nylon later on. GE: So this is around the very early 1960s, your father is learning how to-- AF: All of a sudden, almost overnight, synthetics. The cotton is out. Knitting cotton was a very - it was a dirty process. What happened is, as you were knitting the cotton, some of the staple would come off as fuzz and there was fuzz all over the place. As a matter of fact, my father was allergic to it. He ended up taking some of the fuzz and they made a serum and injected him with it so he could actually tolerate it and be in the factory. But there was stuff hanging all over the place. As soon as synthetics came in it was clean, it was almost an unbelievable transformation. GE: What is interesting is you're saying why this synthetic is so nice is the production got much better. How about at the end use? Isn't it also a better product for the consumer? AF: Well it was a very top-notch product at the time. When it compared to cotton, it was probably less expensive than cotton, but it performed, it washed, it kept its shape after many washes. It was an ideal fabric for children. One of my father's big customers was a company called Stretchini, which eventually sold to Bobby Brooks, that manufactured children's garments. We would knit, they would have it dyed and then they would cut it up into leotards and tops and they were advertising very heavily in the New York Times magazine section. Every week, Stretchini was just a very big name in children's garments, swimsuits. The fabric for the warm-up jackets and pants for the 1964 and 1968 Olympic team was made out of our fabric that we donated and gave to Wilson, which cut it up into garments. So, it performed very well. In fact, I may still have that jacket. So this was the pants that either the '64 or '68 Olympic team wore as their warm-up. I don't think I can get into them anymore. GE: Did this become the norm for all clothes or did you have any kind of proprietary rights to this? AF: No. What happened is as we were succeeding in '61 and on, the Boxer family was succeeding also. They had a plant not far from ours but they were right near where Good Shepherd is now. The Berman family with Fairtex had a big plant, which was right alongside Emmaus Avenue and 309. They had a big facility there. Between these three plants, between our plant and Fairtex and the Boxer plant, I would say that a very large percentage of the stretch nylon fabric was being produced right here in Allentown. GE: You say a very large percentage ; do you mean a large percentage that served the whole country? AF: Yes. We were serving the New York market, but the New York market was the market. GE: Among the three of you, it was enough business? It wasn't terribly competitive? AF: We competed for people by that time. We would compete for knitters. GE: For the workers? AF: For the workers, yes. GE: Okay so the constraint was more the workers, not how much you could make? AF: Yes the workers and the mechanics. There was enough for all of us. The big issue back then was how to make it. GE: So it was really a production constraint, not at all a market or selling one. SC: Would you say again where the Boxer's were located? AF: They were located right near the Good Shepherd facility in South Allentown. GE: During what time frame would you say this lasted? From 1961 until when? AF: '61 until it lasted into the early '70s. GE: So for a good ten years. AF: We sold our business in 1968. In 1967, we built a dye house. We had the knitting mill on South Albert Street, in Allentown. And then my father bought-- GE: What was the name of your knitting mill? AF: It started out as Allentown Knitting Mill. There was Lehigh Weaving Company because the building he bought had the name associated with it. Eventually Lehigh Knitting Mills became available, and someone else had the name, but gave it up. So we had those names. Then we had Syntex Dyeing and Finishing. My father purchased an old Sears warehouse on Union Boulevard and we converted that into a dye house. GE: From '61 to '71, did you also have dyeing? AF: The dyeing came in in about '67. GE: Because there was an earlier time when you did have dyeing. AF: At the Arcadia. GE: Okay. AF: But we started dyeing our fabrics in '67. Then we sold the business in '68 to Duplan Corp, which was a New York Stock Exchange listed company. GE: So it was a large one? AF: Pretentions of being large. GE: So it was publicly traded. AF: Yes. SC: Is that D-U-P-- AF: D-U-P-L-A-N. They were actually one of the suppliers of the nylon yarn. So, they had . . . GE: So they were vertically integrated. AF: They were vertically integrated during this period. There was a time of the conglomeration GE: Okay and even where you took on the dyes, which would again be vertically integrating, did you do that to have better control? AF: Clearly quality. We felt that in order to compete more successfully, we needed to have a product that we knew from beginning to end. SC: Were the double knits at that time, the really heavy double knits? AF: We went from the interlocking to double knits and then we also had single knits too. There were single knits with lighter weight like top fabric. Some of the, even today, some of the less expensive knit shirts will be a single knit fabric as opposed to the interlock which is a form of double knit. GE: Generally, your fabric would not be distinguished from Boxer's fabric? AF: Typically not. We would try to come up with different styles, we would try to come up with color combinations that were more seasonal. Our sales agency would twice a year would come up with a color palette, and we would do fabric for samples, and that's what the salesmen used to go out and sell. GE: And your salesmen, they were selling to manufacturers? AF: Manufacturers of the garments, yes. GE: I assume the manufacturers of the garments were the ones driving what color it should be? AF: Yes. Absolutely. GE: So then you sold it in '68, and at that point, your family was then out of-- AF: Well, my father retired at that point, and I stayed on as president of the new manufacturing organization. My father had already expanded ; we had a knitting mill in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. So we had the knitting mill in Allentown, the knitting mill in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, and the dye house in Allentown. When we sold to Duplan, Duplan had purchased a company out in California that had a knitting mill. So I became responsible for that plant as well. GE: What drove you to North Carolina? AF: Help. Labor. GE: What was the difficulty with the labor here? Was it not as plentiful? AF: I think there was the competition for knitters. The Fairtex was union. In order to compete, we had to keep up with union style wages. GE: But you were not union? AF: We were not union at the time. I think Fairtex, the Fairtex plant was much larger because it was all under one roof. So they had several hundred people working there. The knitting mill in Allentown was 30-40 people. Our knitting mill. The dye house we had several hundred people working at the dye house. I think the International Textile Workers were in Fairtex. And then they made several attempts to unionize our plant. The first few were unsuccessful. The last one was successful. Part of the problem was that under the new union rules, over-time occurred on the weekends, no matter how many hours you worked during the week. So we were finding that people were working four days during the week, taking off a day, then working Saturday and getting over-time. It would mess up our production cycles. So to give us a bit of a buffer, in terms of dealing with our needs, being able to fulfill our needs, my father just decided to get a plant started in Rocky Mountain. GE: So I'm trying to remember exactly where we were. At this point, the family also had a plant down in North Carolina. In terms of employees, you said you had about 40? AF: All together, at peak, I had about 400 people working for me. GE: Is that already once you were bought out or before? AF: Afterwards. GE: After you were bought out. AF: We expanded some after we were bought. We expanded the dye house and we expanded the knitting mill, so it was at peak. Probably before we sold it must have been somewhere in the 200-250. GE: You had said that the breakdown was most of it was dye and much smaller was the knitting is that correct? AF: No. We were basically matching our dye house to what we could produce. GE: Right but how about in terms of employees? AF: Employees, there were many more people in the dye house. GE: It was more labor intensive? AF: Much more labor intensive. One knitter could tend three, four, five, six machines depending on the style. In the dye house you needed multiple people to keep things going on one machine. GE: So the dying was very labor intensive. SC: That was in Rocky Mountain that you had 400 people? AF: No. There were a total of 400. We had probably about 20 in Rocky Mountain. It depends on if we were running, we very often ran three shifts. GE: How would you characterize the relationship employees have with management? With yourself as well as the management staff? AF: I think in spite of the fact that some people would take a look at unionization and that this represented some kind of difficulty. I don't think it did. I think it was just the way that things were going at the time. I thought we generally had a pretty good relationship. I'm sure there were issues but I think we paid pretty fairly. As a matter of fact, whereas I said earlier that I think Fairtex asked the union to try to organize us. I got back at them a little bit some time later in the second contract that we only had 30-40 people that were unionized. Fairtex had several hundred. I had mentioned that we had difficulty with people not working their full workweek but coming in for overtime and getting the overtime. In the second contract that I signed after the first two or three years, I got a concession. I paid more for an hourly wage because we could do it. But I got a concession from the union that overtime would only begin after forty hours. So, that really helped us a great deal. What happened was that Fairtex had to now match what we were giving, on an hourly, and one of the Berman brothers called me up screaming at me saying what I did to them. GE: Do you want to just tell us a little bit, you had said I think around '67-'68 that Duplan-- AF: Duplan, '68. During '67, early part of '68-- let me go back a little bit. My father had, right around the time that I joined, he had a friend in the textile industry that was a high power salesman in New York. Clarence Ross had the sales agency, my father had the manufacturing, and the two of them formed a 50-50 partnership to sell stretch nylon to the trade. That company was called Stretch Knit. GE: Stretch Knit is the one who is making it? AF: Stretch Knit was the product that the sales agency was selling to the trade. It was the position of a middleman but it was a way of getting two separate companies owning a third to be able to service the industry. GE: You say by trade you mean the retailers? AF: The manufacturers. GE: So this was still before the garment. AF: Before the garments. This was selling it to people that would turn it into garments. It was a part of the business that I saw as the future. My father, there were really big egos involved in this. All along there was a thought that we were kind of working toward merging the three companies into one and potentially going public on our own. That wasn't particularly the right period for doing things like that. Through '67, early '68, there was a lot of negotiation between the local parties to see if we could come up with a merger. The biggest problem was the sales agency basically had no assets. They had a couple paintings on the wall and some office furniture. We had a lot of iron. We had a lot of very expensive types of equipment. So trying to find the balance as to how to value the new company was a problem. I kept thinking that it could work out. I thought we had a deal and then that deal fell apart. We were at the same time being courted by Duplan to sell the business. I remember after meeting in New York I came back to my father and said we are never going to make a deal. That's when we sold the business. So we had thought about going the private route. GE: And then with Duplan your father retired? AF: My father retired. GE: You became the CEO it sounds like. AF: The head of manufacturing. Eventually, a year or so later, Duplan bought the sales agency. So even though the sales agency continued to sell our product now owned by Duplan, there was some tension but eventually it worked out and was back under one roof. GE: And how long did you stay as--? AF: I had a five-year contract with Duplan that I guess after 3 and a half years, we agreed to disagree. Things were changing. I remember clearly one of the sales pitches and getting us to be bought out, we don't want the iron, we don't want the machines. We want the people that are making it happen. And then, pretty much as soon as they buy us, the corporate people take over and we have to hire a controller and we have to have monthly reports. All of a sudden, as smart as we were before we were bought, now we are dumb and don't know what we are talking about. They try to get policy wonks to come in and change things. GE: So the whole management style. AF: The whole management style changed and that kind of confirmed to me the decision I made to go in with my father, not to go in with the big corporations. Clearly, I was not a corporate type. GE: You stepped out it sounds like. AF: I stepped out in May of 1972. And then the business, and I don't think there is a cause or a relationship, but the overall business started not long thereafter to decline. It declined in my view because not only were people like Duplan buying knitters, but the big weaving companies were buying knitting mills as well. Weavers had the Cohen mills, the Burlington's, people that were making sheets and towels and shirt fabrics and stuff like that. They had a mindset of you set up a loom and three years later you change it. So they were at very long run productions, very low margins. Knitting mills were very versatile. We had a hundred knitting machines in Allentown, within a few days ; I could pretty much change every one of them to something else. Because of its versatility and because of its smallness, there was a very high margin product as well. I think that weaver became very jealous of the high profit margins of the knitting mills. But when they bought the knitting mills, they started to impose their mindset. So before polyester became a dirty word, it was a very high performing product. I kind of remember these numbers. We used to deliver fabrics typically that were 12 to 13 ounces per square yard. Which doesn't mean anything by itself, but it's a substantial product. A year or two later, when the weavers were competing in bulk because that's the only thing that they knew, the fabric was now down to 10-10 ½ ounces per square yard and it stopped performing completely. So overnight that business completely busted. The machine that I had mentioned that we bought from England ; at one point we would pay $50,000 a machine for those machines. After I left, about a year or two after I left, I was offered by a machinery salesman that I could buy four machines for $37,000. GE: Okay so therefore nobody was buying? AF: Nobody was buying. Overnight the business-- I think it was just a change in mentality and the way that it affected the quality of the fabric. GE: So just so that I understand, so you're saying that in the '60s, these synthetics came in and they just took off, but then in the '70s it started to reverse? AF: Yes. GE: Your hypothesis is that happened because the Weavers really cheapened or diminished the quality? AF: That's my take. It may not be all of that. It was not foreign competition because the knitting machines were very high cost. GE: It was a high barrier to entry. AF: It was very expensive. GE: They cheapened it. I'm not sure I fully understand that. AF: They lightened it. SC: It wasn't durable. AF: It wasn't nearly as durable, as useful as a product. It's like taking the garment like I showed you with the double knit, where you had a nice substantial feel, and then making it a single knit. It just didn't perform anymore. GE: The knitters are making the fabric, what are the weavers making? AF: The weavers are also making the fabric, but they are making commodity fabrics. GE: Tell me what you mean by that. AF: Sheets. You don't make sheets a hundred yards at a time. You make sheets a thousand or a million yards at a time. GE: So they're the ones doing the big ones. AF: Right. GE: And the knitters were the ones who were doing more custom and small? SC: So you had 45-60 inch fabric being knit in long tubes as opposed to -- AF: Yeah. For us a 10,000-yard order is a significant order. 10,000 yards is what they would bang out over a weekend. GE: Interesting. And then they started going down already. Now we are in the '70s. How long did they last, that business? AF: I think somewhere around '75, give or take. The Duplan went bankrupt and for several years the dye house and the plant in Allentown went into receivership or whatever. In 1978, one of the people I knew from Stretchini, they approached me to help a company that he was involved with to run the dye house. So they bought the dye house in Allentown, our old dye house. GE: Stretchini. AF: Not Stretchini. It was a company out of Pottsville that bought the plant in Allentown and I helped run that. I think I joined them in '78. GE: And how long did you do that? AF: I think it was around '78 to '81. And again I guess I wasn't cut out to be in the corporate world. I basically was the head of the plant in Allentown, but there was a lot of interference from people that really didn't know what they were talking about. SC: Did you know the Delins in Pottsville? AF: No. GE: Arnold Delin, I think that was very much with the sewers. SC: Yeah it was different. GE: So after you were done with that, any other connections? AF: That ended my textile connection. GE: Alright. Terrific. So I was just going to ask you, you grew up in the Allentown area, want to share with us a little bit about-- well you didn't grow up here, how old were you? AF: 17. GE: Okay so tell us a little bit about the Jewish community in Allentown that you saw as a younger person, how do you think it was affected by the textile industry being very dominant in the Jewish community? AF: Well I met a few Jewish kids the summer that I moved to Allentown. It was softball in the summer, maybe a little basketball during the winter months. But, as far as my involvement, my parents belonged to Beth El and my mother and father were regular goers. We would go Friday night quite often. My mother became president of the sisterhood. In fact, Marlene and I met at Beth El. GE: So Marlene grew up in this area? AF: No. She had an aunt that moved here - whose husband owned Dobnoff's - the women's dress store on Hamilton Street. The aunt lived next door to a friend of my mother's who saw her picture and her next-door neighbor made the Shiddach, the connection. So we met, I was in the Air Force, I was home on leave and Marlene finished finals. She was at Hunter College, and she reluctantly came out and even more reluctantly went to temple Friday night and that's where we met. We were supposed to have a date the following night, but we were not supposed to meet Friday night. GE: So as you got a little bit older, this kind of industry and its dominance here, what kind of impact do you think it had on the Jewish community here? AF: I think it made for a lot of wealthy people. There were only a few of us in manufacturing, but a lot of people in the sewing. After we were married, I was involved with the Federation, and I had a chance to meet and to know some of the people that were in the textile industry. It was a Camelot period. It was a golden age. GE: How long would [you] say that Camelot period went, from when to when? If you had put a starting point and ending point? AF: I think there was a lot of stuff going on before the synthetic business started and there was some stuff going on afterwards. I think that period of time between the early '60s and the mid '70s, I may be a little fuzzy on those dates but it is essentially those dates that really was a golden age. GE: Right, in Allentown's Jewish community. How do you see it now? AF: It's a very different, much more professional community. Back then it was all manufacturers, it was scrap, it was rags, it was whatever. Now it is professional. GE: Do you think it's as cohesive, as involved and affluent? AF: I think that it is probably, I would say that it is more cohesive now, less affluent. For example, the money that was raised by Federation between '67 and '73, I mean it was a lot of money. That's when I was into it. I got involved in the mid-'60s. I know that there was a lot of money raised before that as Israel was being founded. There was a lot of money raised. If you look at what a million dollars was in let's say the '73 campaign, the Yom Kippur War campaign. I was the campaign chairman, we doubled that year, obviously because everybody was cleaning out their bank accounts. We raised over $2 million. If you look at what $2 million then is compared to what it is now. GE: It's worth five times as much. AF: At least that. Campaign today is very nice but it doesn't have the kind of money that people gave like Murray Goodman and the Kobrovskys, and others of that stature were giving huge amounts of money. SC: Was that '67 or '68? GE: '73. SC: Okay. GE: How do you think your family, especially your uncles, because they were really the first, how do you think they got involved in the needle trade industry? Why in the needle trade industry? AF: I don't know. GE: Why do you think that there definitely was a Jewish propensity in the needle trade industry compared to some other industries? Any thoughts? AF: I think it is typical. There is a vacuum that somebody doesn't want to fill and a vacuum that somebody does want to fill. I read this interesting article, it's not about textile but it's about lawyers in New York who thought that doing mergers and acquisitions was beneath them. So the Jewish lawyers in New York became the M& ; A specialists and as the stock market boomed, the M& ; A boomed and all of the white shoe firms that decided doing M& ; A was beneath them and not dignified were out in the cold and the Jewish firms grabbed on everything and succeeded. My guess is it's something like that. Again, I think there were areas that were closed. So you're looking for areas that are open. GE: Okay I think we pretty much covered everything. SC: So now my first question is what has made you feel the most creative or the most satisfied in your life or maybe that has given you a sense of artistry in your life in the broadest sense? AF: I think I had a good time fooling around with the designs of the knitting machines, or the fabric rather. We'd come up with different combinations of yarn and different colors to see if we could make something interesting. That was a fun time. In addition to nylon, there were two types of polyester we were using. One you could not dye at all and the other one could be dyed, so you could end up getting three colors. So that was a fun thing to play around with and for me personally, I think photography has become a place where I get my creative jollies taken care of. SC: And how about, what do you value most in life? AF: I think the stuff today is really all about being a husband and a grandfather. That's become, there's no way that I could have a job today because I am too busy being a professional grandfather. We have six granddaughters and three daughters. It's a full-time job. In fact, we are going after this, we're not babysitting because they are 15 and 12, but we are taking them out for dinner because their parents aren't around tonight so we're taking them out to dinner.. GE: You know we actually didn't get into that at all. How would you say that you and your family are connected both to the Jewish community and to the wider community, presently? AF: Jewish community has been an interesting challenge. That's a subject for another interview. We were very active in Beth El. Marlene was on sisterhood and I was executive vice president. I had been asked to become president of Beth El. But we got involved, we were in I guess the epicenter of the politics that occurred about 35 years ago. It had to do with our daughter's bat-mitzvah. We had a situation, I mean she was a day school alum ; she went to Camp Ramah, very competent in Hebrew and the prayers and whatever. We wanted her bat-mitzvah where she could maximize her involvement, and Beth El at the time looked to minimize the involvement of the kids. So we kind of parted ways and we were instrumental in starting Am Haskalah at the time. During that period of time we were very actively involved. I was at the Jewish committee, one time I was on four boards. I was president of the Federation for a while ; '78-'80 I think. I was involved with the day school, with the center, with Beth El. Now it's nothing. GE: How about your involvement with the wider community? And then we'll speak to Marlene. AF: Organizationally not really. I was involved with the Allentown Fair Housing Commission years ago when it first started. I was involved, but that was pretty much it. Was there something else-- oh yes, it was not a formal involvement but my father had purchased some property in downtown Allentown. When he passed away I pretty much was running the real estate. So The Caring Place is the building that we used to own, and I pretty much gave them a free ride for a year because they couldn't possibly pay me. So, I mean Mary and I had a very nice relationship. So that was not a direct involvement but at least it was a gift of whatever. SC: And it still goes on. AF: Yes, it still goes on. It had its troubles but the gift goes on. And it's great, I love what the potential is for what she has done down there. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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Arnan Finkelstein, May 15, 2014
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Arnan Finkelstein talks about being born in Tel Aviv, Palestine (this is prior to the establishment of the State of Israel) and spending his young childhood there. In the early 1940s, during World War II, the Finkelstein family returned to the U.S. When they returned to the U.S., Arnan’s father manufactured women’s undergarments during the war. After the war, Arnan’s father returned to owning a knitting mill, which he did prior to living in Tel Aviv. Arnan entered the family business in 1961. At this time synthetic fabrics were being developed and the Finkelsteins were active in this. After Arnan’s father sold the business in the late 1960s, Arnan stayed involved in different textile enterprises until 1981.
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2014-05-15
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
Interviewee
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Marlene Finkelstein
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5.4 June 23, 2014 Marlene Finkelstein, June 23, 2014 LVTNT-23 1:00:56 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Marlene Finkelstein Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 FinkelsteinMarlene_20140623 1.0:|21(4)|36(6)|53(5)|68(15)|85(6)|100(7)|119(10)|136(2)|147(7)|162(2)|175(4)|188(17)|205(11)|224(3)|239(13)|256(8)|273(5)|294(3)|313(5)|326(15)|341(10)|360(16)|377(14)|396(3)|411(6)|430(10)|447(10)|468(2)|495(12)|520(7)|539(2)|560(3)|583(13)|600(16)|619(5)|642(11)|669(11)|694(14)|715(16)|732(15)|757(17)|774(8)|791(3)|804(3)|823(8)|844(10)|863(10)|884(4)|911(6)|928(19)|945(8)|960(17)|979(8)|1008(8)|1035(6)|1058(5)|1081(7)|1098(13)|1119(3)|1156(6)|1173(10) 0 https://youtu.be/_gD3b7chGqs YouTube video 0 Introduction - Marlene Finkelstein née Freedman SC: Today is Monday, June 23rd 2014 and interview with Marlene Finkelstein. So can you say your whole name, when you were born, where you were born to put yourself into context.
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 ; MF: Sure, I'm Marlene, my middle name Barbara, that I never use, and my maiden name is Friedman and I was born on January 29, 1943. I believe in the Bronx in New York. 0 43 Family History—Mother's Childhood, 1914 to 1930 SC: So can we go back to your parents and grandparents and great grandparents? As far back as you know. Whatever you can do.
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 ; MF: I don't know as much about my mother's family. My mother's name was Marilyn Friedman - actually, her real name I believe was Minnie, and she hated that name and eventually legally changed it to Marilyn. Her maiden name was Sobel, and she was the daughter of Molly and Joseph Sobel, both of whom I believe were born in the States. I never knew either one of them ; they both died before I was born. As a matter of fact my mother's mother died when my mother was 9 years old. Her father wasn't a nice man, so she told me. He had another woman he was keeping while he had his wife and six children to care for. Their life was not a good one and when my mother's mother, Molly died, my mother was nine, her father took my mother's three older siblings and went to Boston and married the woman that he had been seeing. And actually had a couple more children with her who I - I have relatives somewhere that I have no knowledge of. And my mother refused to go with him because she was very angry with him, and she had two younger brothers. They went to live with an aunt for a short period of time, and the aunt couldn't keep them, so they went into an orphanage. 0 305 Father's Family History MF: My father is Sydney Freidman. His real name was Joshua. And the Hebrew version of Joshua was Yahushua. The Yiddish diminutive version was Shia so they called him Shia. But when he started school, they told his mother that he needed a more English name, so they came up with Sydney. Joshua certainly would have been preferable, but that's what it was.
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 ; SC: Do you know your mothers birth date? 
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 ; MF: Yes, it was June 15th, 1914.
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 ; SC: And how about your father’s?
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 ; MF: And my father's was January 22nd, 1913. So they were close in age, and my father told the story that they lived around the comer, I guess that rumor got around that there was a very cute young woman living with Aunt Sarah, and so he had to go check it out for himself. And that's how my parents met. So that's kind of a nice story. 0 742 Guardians of Young Judaea Orphanage MF: And my cousin went to the orphanage, which is now like a community center or whatever, and asked if they might still have the records. And lo and behold, down in the basement, I have goosebumps, they still had the records. So I got together with all my cousins this past fall, and they brought the records which was amazing to read and learn about and get to see, even as a social worker, to get to see how- and everything was hand written notes, and they were really just focused on the physical health of the children. I mean there was no discussion in any of the notes about their mental health, which I found fascinating. They were concerned that Helen was wetting the bed, which would probably have been very normal reactions of young children whose family was, you know disrupted, and so on. But, I was a little appalled by this... I discovered they were doing vaginal exams on these young girls. I don't know why. I would love to find out why. But I found that very upsetting to read that. Whether they were looking for some kind of infection that might have been causing the bedwetting, you know use your head.
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 ; SC: Do you know if it was a religiously connected orphanage or if it was a settlement house type.
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 ; MF: It was called something like, the Guardians of Young Judea, it was definitely Jewish affiliated facility. 0 1125 Marlene Finkelstein's Childhood and Education SC: So, can you talk about your childhood, and your schooling, and any work that you've had from doing something really small when you were young all the way through.
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 ; MF: I could try, I was born, as I said, I think it was Montefiore Hospital, in the Bronx, or it might have just been in Manhattan-- January 29, 1943. It was the war years, and soon after I was born, my father was drafted into the navy. And my mother who was pretty disconnected from her family, I mean she had no contact with her father or - she had one sister who she stayed close to, Elsie, and Artie. Otherwise, she really didn't have- she had taken my father's family. That really was her family. So when my father was drafted, my mother was in a panic, and she went and lived with Judith, my father's older sister, and her husband, Mike, who was, I guess was 4F, he had some back issues, whatever, so he didn't get drafted. You know, was absolved. And so we lived with them, and Judith and Mike had two sons, Elliot, who was three years older than me, and Robert, who was two months younger than I am. We lost Elliot two years ago to lung cancer. But, Robert and I are still close. 0 1765 College and Career SC: So you were in college, you went to college.
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 ; MF: I did.
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 ; SC: And after college, or during college, can you go from that point on?
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 ; MF: Sure, sure. By the way, I knew I wanted to be a psychologist, therapist, counselor, whatever, when I was about 6 years old. I didn't even know the name for it but I was sort of fascinated by that. And when I went to college, and I said I wanted to major in psychology, my mother was very disapproving. And she certainly didn't want me to be a social worker because, you know, what kind of job is that? 0 1810 Mother's Involvement in the Garment Industry MF: My mother considered herself a business woman. I should have mentioned this. But my mother worked. Which was unusual in those days, she worked because she wasn't satisfied that my father was making enough money. But she was very proud about the fact that she could work, and she never even graduated high school, I don't believe. And she was a bookkeeper. And she was a very good bookkeeper, and she had worked in the garment industry for a while. As a bookkeeper with my uncle Mike, Judith's husband, who was the controller in the same office where my mother was a bookkeeper.
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 ; SC: Were they manufacturers? Do you know?
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 ; MF: Yes, they were manufacturers. They were making... what were they making? It wasn't they might have been making... they were making clothes of some kind... because when my mother went back to work, she felt very guilty, and she came home at the end of the first week, or when she got paid, with a little outfit for me. 0 1961 Meeting Arnie Finkelstein MF: Hunter College meant commuting. And it was an all-girls school, but you know, I dated a lot and those were the days that we dated. In the meantime, my Uncle Mike, who had worked in the garment industry, he had a longing to own his own business, he wanted like a women's clothing store, dress shop, or whatever. And he bought a place called Dobnoffs, in downtown Allentown. And so they left New York, Aunt Judith and Uncle Mike, and moved to Allentown in 1960? About that.
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 ; AF: Right around there.
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 ; MF: Yeah, I graduated high school in ‘59 I guess, and I started college in ‘59 so it was ‘61. My aunt lived on Livingston Street, my aunt and uncle. And, she had a next door neighbor named Ruth Bloom, who saw my picture in my aunt's house and said she'd be nice for Mina's son. So Mina's son was in the air force in Oklahoma, at the time. And I got a call from my aunt, in June, I had just finished my final exams, and I wanted to go party, and she told my mother I had to come out, that she had a nice boy for me to meet. 0 2247 Israel "Ukie" Freedman and Kirkland Hall Suits MF: [M]y parents didn't have a lot of money, but my Uncle Ukie, that was my father's second younger brother.
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 ; SC: Israel.
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 ; MF: Right. He married very late, he never had children, and there was a period of time he lived with us, and he adored me. He was- I- you know the sun rose and set with me. And he was a salesman in the garment industry for a company called Kirkland Hall Suits. I think I still have a couple of his suits hanging in the closet because I can't bear to get rid of them. But he had the wherewithal to send me to camp. 0 2442 The '60s—Marriage, Children, Teaching, and Volunteer Work GE: February 63' is when you got married.
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 ; MF: Yes February 24, 1963. So yeah there was no time to work then. I think I might have- I remember a little job working at a JCC with a group of girls, you know, briefly. But that was- it might have been in that period of time. And then I came out to Allentown as a new bride. And I was Mina Finkelstein's Daughter in law. Everybody knew my mother in law because she was this beautiful woman who really had a spell on the community. And she was president of the sisterhood, and she'd been president of Hadassah and was - and I was very open to her. She had great style, and she taught me lots of things and so I she made me a life member of Hadassah right away and the sisterhood, and I got involved in a lot of the organizations. But I also had a teaching degree, so- I mean you can't do much with a bachelors in psychology, and I thought about graduate school, but I wasn't clear yet where I wanted to go, or what I wanted. So my aunt Judith arranged for me to meet Judy Freeman, who ran the nursery school at the JCC. And Judy was thrilled and she hired me right away, and so I worked for two years at the JCC, Miss Marlene. And I still have some of my earliest students, my three and four year olds, still call me Miss Marlene when they see me today, which is hysterical. 0 2640 Inspiration for "Hakol"—Jewish Community Newspaper MF: Maxine and I met the first year as a new bride here. I was very lonely, and everyone said to me. Wait, Maxine Kivert is going to come back to town. When you meet her, you and Maxine are going to be great friends. And, Maxine knew about me because before Arnan met me, he had dated another girl in town who Maxine was friendly with, so Maxine knew about me, and I knew about her. And we met I think at an-- I remember at an ORT-- yeah, I was involved with the ORT also... event. And we knew each other. I mean we just immediately knew each other. And we became very fast friends. Both our husbands were in the textile business, so that was... And she went on to have three daughters, and we had three daughters ha-ha. So we had a lot of connections. And the first thing that Maxine and I did together was we started a Hadassah Study Group. There was a Woman's Study Group that my mother in law belonged to. And the older women belonged to. But we had children, and we were home during the day, it was harder to get babysitters. So we started an evening study group. That was just fabulous. And the first year we asked the rabbis to come and talk, and at the end of that we said, you know we're all college graduates, we can do a better job than they did. They sort of were winging it, so we would pick a topic. Hadassah would give us some ideas, and we would give out the assignments. 0 2965 Returning to School—Master's of Social Work and the Alliance for Creative Development MF: I was also still involved in study groups and I remember giving a paper. There were two in a row, one was on interestingly, the growing threat of radical Islam, and um, I remember I learned all about the Shiites, and the Sunni's and so on. And one was on Theodore Herzl. And I remember coming home and Arnan said, how did it go, and I said, it was an A paper. It's time for me to go back to school, and you know, do it for myself. So I knew I wanted psychology. I started looking around for a program, and, by the way, I was also on the board of Jewish Family Service. And, Amy Miller Cohen, who was a psychologist in Bethlehem, I had given the paper at her house. And I was talking with her about going back to school and getting a masters, and she said to me, “Marlene, go get an MSW.” and I said, “Really?” And she said, “It'll take you less time, you're not a little kid anymore,” I was about 37, 38, and she said, “and you'll do what you want to do. '' So Marywood had a program at DeSales. And so I went. It took me three years because it was a part time program, but I got my MSW, and I had interned at Quakertown Hospital in the Psychiatric unit as part of the program, and I stayed on there, and worked in patient psyche for another ten years. And it was with a group called the Alliance for Creative Development. We were psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers-- creative therapists. It was a wonderful program, it was before managed care and all that stuff. And where we really could work with patients as a team and see results. It was a very very exciting time. 0 3200 Involvement in Husband's Textile Business GE: What relationship or what connections did you have to the family business, if any?
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 ; MF: Well, we tried for about two weeks for me to come keep some books for you. That didn't work. Ha-ha
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 ; AM: She was our model. Every so often we would have an experimental- 
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 ; MF: Oh this is a very funny story.
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 ; AF: Yeah,
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 ; MF: I had, I've always had a dressmaker because of my size, whatever I would always buy always had to be fixed. So Arnan had this new experimental fabric that they were making.
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 ; AF: Well we were just playing with it.
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 ; MF: Yeah, so I took it to my dressmaker, this is before we were married, and she made me a bathing suit out of it for our honeymoon. 0 3337 Relationship with in-Laws MF: I had a pretty wonderful and loving relationship with my in-laws, especially with my mother-in-law. My father-in-law was a quiet man, he didn't talk very much. And most of the time he wanted to talk to Arnan about business things. But he would come over to see the grandchildren, I still joke about - he would look, he would see they were okay, and then he would say, “Okay Mina Finkelstein, it's time to go home!” And she would say, “George! We just got here!” 
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 ; GE: Where did they live?
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 ; MF: They lived on Livingston and twenty . . . and Ott. On the corner of Livingston and Ott. And our prior home was on 26th and Highland. So we were always in close proximity. 0 3399 Marlene Finkelstein's Values and Creative Inspirations SC: What do you value most in life? 
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 ; MF: Well, probably my family, first and foremost, and the connections and the relationships. I would have to make that you know...
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 ; SC: Yes. And what has made you feel the most creative or artistic in the broadest sense, or completed in life.
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 ; MF: Well, I think I have a great sense of accomplishment about the newspaper, not the fact that I helped to start it, and it's still an ongoing institution, I think feels very wonderful. 0 3542 The Hakol Today GE: [W]ith the Hakol, so you started, you were there for about four years, then it went on for another year, I know of it today, tell me did it lapse?
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 ; MF: No it didn't lapse, it-
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 ; GE: So it continued the whole-
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 ; MF: But it wasn't until I'm trying to remember, did Ned Shulman do it? Maggie Levine was still here.
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 ; AF: No.
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 ; GE: I know Sharon Bernstein I think I think at one point maybe- 
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 ; MF: Yeah that was a while-
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 ; AF: Somebody took it over after you know- 
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 ; MF: Whoever did it until they finally-
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 ; AF: But then it became professional. 0 MovingImage Marlene Finkelstein talks about growing up in New York City, attending Hunter College, and then coming to Allentown at the suggestion of her aunt and uncle to meet a nice young man, Arnan Finkelstein. After Marlene married Arnan and moved to Allentown she started a family and got immersed in the Jewish community. Marlene and her dear friend Maxine Tanenbaum (now Kline) started an evening Hadassah study session and later the Hakol (monthly Jewish newspaper published by the Jewish Federation). Marlene returned to school part-time to earn an MSW (Masters of Social Work). She then worked in the field of psychology/social work for more than twenty-five years. .
 ; Interview with Marlene Finkelstein, June 23, 2014 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is Monday, June 23rd 2014 and interview with Marlene Finkelstein. So can you say your whole name, when you were born, where you were born to put yourself into context. MARLENE FINKELSTEIN: Sure, I'm Marlene, my middle name Barbara, that I never use, and my maiden name is Friedman and I was born on January 29, 1943. I believe in the Bronx in New York. SC: So can we go back to your parents and grandparents and great grandparents? As far back as you know. Whatever you can do. MF: I don't know as much about my mother's family. My mother's name was Marilyn Friedman - actually, her real name I believe was Minnie, and she hated that name and eventually legally changed it to Marilyn. Her maiden name was Sobel, and she was the daughter of Molly and Joseph Sobel, both of whom I believe were born in the States. I never knew either one of them ; they both died before I was born. As a matter of fact my mother's mother died when my mother was 9 years old. Her father wasn't a nice man, so she told me. He had another woman he was keeping while he had his wife and six children to care for. Their life was not a good one and when my mother's mother, Molly died, my mother was nine, her father took my mother's three older siblings and went to Boston and married the woman that he had been seeing. And actually had a couple more children with her who I - I have relatives somewhere that I have no knowledge of. And my mother refused to go with him because she was very angry with him, and she had two younger brothers. They went to live with an aunt for a short period of time, and the aunt couldn't keep them, so they went into an orphanage. And in the orphanage, her youngest- no her next brother, there were two brothers, Sammy and Artie. Sammy was closer in age to her, I guess. And he apparently ran out, and jumped on the back of a truck and was killed on her watch. So, I think that affected her deeply. But she always looked after Artie, her younger brother. And they went onto foster care, he with her. And that was a very negative experience for her, as well. She felt like she was kind of a Cinderella person, treated like a servant in the house, but they put on a good front. They were German Jews and historically, the German Jews weren't terribly uh, fond of uh, the Polish, Russian Jews. They thought they were beneath them and apparently treated my mother accordingly. My mother was always very vocal about not liking German Jews because of that. So when she turned sixteen, she went to the um, offices where they had... placed her and told them that she was sixteen, she knew she could get working papers, and she wanted to go get a job. And she was not going back to that house anymore. And there was a woman in the office who said, where will you go tonight, and she said, "I don't know, and I don't care, but I'm not going back there." And she said, "Well, my mother sometimes takes in borders. Why don't you come home with me?" And that turned out to be my father's cousins so that's how my mother met my father. My father is Sydney Freidman. His real name was Joshua. And the Hebrew version of Joshua was Yahushua. The Yiddish diminutive version was Shia so they called him Shia. But when he started school, they told his mother that he needed a more English name, so they came up with Sydney. Joshua certainly would have been preferable, but that's what it was. SC: Do you know your mothers birth date? MF: Yes, it was June 15th, 1914. SC: And how about your father's? MF: And my father's was January 22nd, 1913. So they were close in age, and my father told the story that they lived around the comer, I guess that rumor got around that there was a very cute young woman living with Aunt Sarah, and so he had to go check it out for himself. And that's how my parents met. So that's kind of a nice story. SC: It is. Do you know where in Poland/Russia they came from, what town? Each of the families. MF: No, I know my father's... grandparents came from somewhere in the Pale of Settlement, around . . . it could have been around Kiev. Arnan, do you know? They actually, it was an interesting story because the mother's-- this is my father's grandmother-- her name- I actually have a picture of them, it's amazing. Her name, I believe, was Yetta and her last name was Kleinman. She married a man named Fayvel Livinstein. ARNAN FINKELSTEIN: Levinstein. MF: Levinstein. But he took her family name to avoid the Russian draft. Which was very bad in those years. So that they were able to leave and get out of Russia and come to this country. They had four sons, and then Rebecca, my father's mother, and then one more son, Philip, who ultimately became a rabbi out in, first in Minneapolis, and then he went on to Portland, Oregon. And actually I'm still in touch with his granddaughter. But it was a very large family. And this Aunt Sarah, was the wife of one of Rebecca's brothers so they were all first cousins to my father. And they had, I don't know, about six daughters. That the family, my mother went to live with, was named Kleinman. And so I probably know more about the Kleinmen family. My understanding is that she met my father's father, whose name was Wolf Frieman, and he was from I believe Tarnogrod, which was - I'm not sure if that was Poland or . . . Arnan - pictures hanging downstairs, and it has the name and the date on it. It's to the left of the bookcase. . . I don't know much about my grandfather except- my father's father. Except that he was the only grandparent I knew. Rebecca also died very young. She was 38. Also a similar kind of story. My father's mother, Rebecca Klienman, died after- she also had six children. And my father was the second oldest, the oldest was Judith, who plays a role in how I met Arnie, and then there were two brothers, Heshie and Ukie. It was Hershel I guess and Yisrael, there. And then Helen and Ruthie. And when Rebecca died, at the age of 38, Ruthie the youngest, was about a year and a half, and my grandfather who was a sweet man, had no ability to earn a living, he could daven well, but that was pretty much it. And so he -I don't know, he sold Encyclopedia Judaica. No, Britannica. You know the encyclopedias door to door, or whatever he could. And he went to- uh, I guess orphanages were not uncommon then, and he kept Judith and my father with him, I believe to take care of him, and the next two, Heshie and Ukie, went to live with an Aunt. And the two youngest, Helen and Ruthie, went into an orphanage. Helen died this past spring. She was the last of the six. And my cousin went to the orphanage, which is now like a community center or whatever, and asked if they might still have the records. And lo and behold, down in the basement, I have goosebumps, they still had the records. So I got together with all my cousins this past fall, and they brought the records which was amazing to read and learn about and get to see, even as a social worker, to get to see how- and everything was hand written notes, and they were really just focused on the physical health of the children. I mean there was no discussion in any of the notes about their mental health, which I found fascinating. They were concerned that Helen was wetting the bed, which would probably have been very normal reactions of young children whose family was, you know disrupted, and so on. But, I was a little appalled by this... I discovered they were doing vaginal exams on these young girls. I don't know why. I would love to find out why. But I found that very upsetting to read that. Whether they were looking for some kind of infection that might have been causing the bedwetting, you know use your head. SC: Do you know if it was a religiously connected orphanage or if it was a settlement house type. MF: It was called something like, the Guardians of Young Judea, it was definitely Jewish affiliated facility. And my grandfather would have chosen that because he was quite Orthodox very ... he was always davening as I remember. Keeping Kosher was very important to him, and you know, I know my aunt who was three years older than my father, really kept a home for them, and when my father was dying at the age of ninety nine, he kept telling me that he saw Judith. So I know that he thought of her almost more like his mother, because his mother had died-- it was right after his bar mitzvah, that his mother died so he was 13 and she was 16. And the two boys, the two younger ones I guess, went out and got jobs as soon as they could, and Helen didn't go home until my father and his sister were both married so my grandfather had no way to take care of them anymore. So Helen must have been about 14 at the time. So she went home, and she left, and Ruthie was still in the orphanage, and I thought for sure there would be some notes about Ruthie's reaction to Helen leaving, but no, there wasn't. I was so surprised. And Helen had experienced the trauma, when she was a little younger at the orphanage, they had gone on an outing to the beach, and there was one of those waves that came in and took children out into the water. And she was rescued but a couple of the children died. And there were notes about the trip but nothing about the tragedy. And, again, I wondered about the psychological impact. She was determined to learn to swim after that, I'm told. So it is quite an amazing story of their lives. SC: Wow, was that in the Bronx? MF: It was in Brooklyn. SC: That makes sense, yes. MF: It was all in Brooklyn, and I know they moved around a lot. I also know from my father, that at one point, when his mother was still alive - so when he was a young boy - because she was the only female in her family, she took in her parents along with all these children and this sweet husband who couldn't earn a living. I can't imagine... I know that her brothers weren't thrilled with my grandfather. But they. . . and they met. Aunt Helen told me this more recently. I never knew how my grandparents met. They were living in the same tenement house I guess, and somebody said, you know, upstairs there's a nice man. So it was kind of a shidduch. And I know that my father and my aunts were very proud of the fact that their mother spoke perfect English and actually, she was a kind of teacher. As much as a teacher could be. This is my grandmother, I guess. SC: That's wonderful. Just a natural skill. MF: Yeah. I think it is. Because my aunt went on to be a teacher. My father was a teacher. SC: So, can you talk about your childhood, and your schooling, and any work that you've had from doing something really small when you were young all the way through. MF: I could try, I was born, as I said, I think it was Montefiore Hospital, in the Bronx, or it might have just been in Manhattan-- January 29, 1943. It was the war years, and soon after I was born, my father was drafted into the navy. And my mother who was pretty disconnected from her family, I mean she had no contact with her father or - she had one sister who she stayed close to, Elsie, and Artie. Otherwise, she really didn't have- she had taken my father's family. That really was her family. So when my father was drafted, my mother was in a panic, and she went and lived with Judith, my father's older sister, and her husband, Mike, who was, I guess was 4F, he had some back issues, whatever, so he didn't get drafted. You know, was absolved. And so we lived with them, and Judith and Mike had two sons, Elliot, who was three years older than me, and Robert, who was two months younger than I am. We lost Elliot two years ago to lung cancer. But, Robert and I are still close. SC: Do you know what ship your dad was on? Or what was it? MF: He never went on a ship. He got sent.. SC: Good, that's very good. MF: He ended up in Oakland, California, and he was the yeoman to the admiral. My father had gone to college. He went at nights for probably a total of fourteen years. He went to Brooklyn College and got a degree. First in economics, and when he graduated there weren't any jobs to be had, and he went back and he studied printing-- well he had worked for a printer all along then -- so he got some kind of degree or certification in printing as well. And when he was drafted, because he had a degree in economics they thought he would be a good statistician for the Navy, so he did work as the yeoman, and stayed in Oakland, stayed stateside. So my mother, who was a gutsy lady, took me, at eighteen months, and flew cross country with me. Getting bumped all along the way because you had to get. . . had to leave your seat for servicemen who were traveling. And we lived in Oakland, California. Until I was about three. So I guess it was about a year and a half. I know that my father wanted to stay out there, he loved it out there, but my mother wanted to come back and have whatever family she had. So we did come back. When we came back, we lived in Maspeth, Queens because that's where Judith and Mike had bought a home and were living there. And we lived in their basement. Like mother had made- this area was the living room, and this was the bedroom, and there were screens and so on. But they shared the kitchen of course, and I remember that as a fun time because I had two immediate playmates, my two cousins, and we lived there just for about a year I guess, and my father got a job at the [New York] World Telegram & ; Sun as a proofreader in New York. So we could afford an apartment. We moved to Elmhurst, Queens, which was like the next little town over. And that's really where I grew up, and in that house it was a two family house. And the people who lived upstairs-- their name was Marlow, which doesn't sound like a Jewish name but the name had been Asmilowsky--and Murray and Gussy Marlow were very gracious landlords. And Murray was an attorney, had never gone to law school, but he was an attorney. And they had two children. They had a son George who was two years older than me, and who I-- to this day-- I consider as a brother. I'm an old woman. I never had siblings, so you know, I was four, he was six and we're still very close. And we talk every week or couple of weeks, and our kids grew up together so it's very nice. But I lived in that house until I met Arnan. I went to elementary school and it was within walking distance... SC: What was its name? The elementary school. Do you remember? MF: It was PS102. SC: Oh great! New York, its PS. MF: And then and New York then had a program called the SP or the RA, rapid advance, or special progress, and you had to take an exam to pass, to get into it, and I did and I passed, and it allowed me to go from seventh grade to ninth grade. I skipped eighth grade. So - and that was junior high school '73, it was William Cowper, I believe it was, Junior High School. And so I was there for two years, I remember my aunt used to substitute teach there because sometimes I'd be very daring and put on some lipstick, and then be afraid she would see me in the halls with lipstick on. And when I graduated there I went to Newtown High School, which was in walking distance also from my home. And I was in the honors program for some classes. I was young, I was very young, the birth date . . . I graduated, I was still 16. So I wanted to go to college, there was no question about that, and I wanted -- I thought I wanted to go away to college. But I knew it would be a financial hardship for my parents, so I made a decision to go to one of the city colleges, and I went to Hunter College in Manhattan. And my first day there, I still think it's a funny story because it was a single office building on Park Avenue and 68th Street, right across the street from the Russian Embassy, and it housed an elementary school for exceptionally bright students, and Hunter High School, which was also a school you had to take an exam to get into. So, my first day, I went into the elevator and the elevator operator took me up to the seventh floor, which was the elementary school because I looked so young, and I was small, and I was very upset. And I came home, and I put on high heels, the four-inch spike kind, and I wore them for four years of college because in those days you couldn't wear-- especially in a city school, you had to wear a skirt. You couldn't wear pants, that was unheard of. So anyway that was kind of funny. SC: So, this is going to end, so I'm going to take this one out - SC: This is Tape two - DVD two - Marline Finkelstein and this is- you're talking about your grandmothers, on your mother's side maiden name was- MF: Goldstein. SC: Goldstein, yes. MF: This is the photograph. Is there a date? AF: I don't see one. GAIL EISENBERG: Do you want to just do it afterwards? SC: Yeah we can just do it afterwards. Oh that's gorgeous. Oh my gosh. So that's your great gran- MF: These are my great grandfolk, parents. And they're my father's grandparents. SC: Probably from about the 1870's or 80's? MF: I would think so. And she was the one that was Klineman and he was Levinstien and he took her family name. SC: Yeah, wow. That's so nice. MF: A nice story. SC: That's a great picture too. So you were in college, you went to college. MF: I did. SC: And after college, or during college, can you go from that point on? MF: Sure, sure. By the way, I knew I wanted to be a psychologist, therapist, counselor, whatever, when I was about 6 years old. I didn't even know the name for it but I was sort of fascinated by that. And when I went to college, and I said I wanted to major in psychology, my mother was very disapproving. And she certainly didn't want me to be a social worker because, you know, what kind of job is that? My mother considered herself a business woman. I should have mentioned this. But my mother worked. Which was unusual in those days, she worked because she wasn't satisfied that my father was making enough money. But she was very proud about the fact that she could work, and she never even graduated high school, I don't believe. And she was a bookkeeper. And she was a very good bookkeeper, and she had worked in the garment industry for a while. As a bookkeeper with my uncle Mike, Judith's husband, who was the controller in the same office where my mother was a bookkeeper. SC: Were they manufacturers? Do you know? MF: Yes, they were manufacturers. They were making... what were they making? It wasn't they might have been making... they were making clothes of some kind... because when my mother went back to work, she felt very guilty, and she came home at the end of the first week, or when she got paid, with a little outfit for me. And I was probably in third grade, I think. And she told me, and showed me, look what I can buy for you now that ... you know I'm working. Anyway, so my mother was interested in my . . . she thought I should at least be a teacher because if you're a teacher you can always get a job and god forbid you have to work, and so on. So I made a deal that I would still major in psychology, but I would minor in elementary education. And so I had a double major, minor or whatever. And I do have somewhere in New York, a teaching degree and when we were first married I actually taught nursery school here in Allentown. SC: What nursery school? MF: At the JCC. SC: At the JCC, okay. MF: Of course. SC: Yes, of course. MF: So I should back up, Hunter College meant commuting. And it was an all-girls school, but you know, I dated a lot and those were the days that we dated. In the meantime, my Uncle Mike, who had worked in the garment industry, he had a longing to own his own business, he wanted like a women's clothing store, dress shop, or whatever. And he bought a place called Dobnoffs, in downtown Allentown. And so they left New York, Aunt Judith and Uncle Mike, and moved to Allentown in 1960? About that. AF: Right around there. MF: Yeah, I graduated high school in '59 I guess, and I started college in '59 so it was '61. My aunt lived on Livingston Street, my aunt and uncle. And, she had a next door neighbor named Ruth Bloom, who saw my picture in my aunt's house and said she'd be nice for Mina's son. So Mina's son was in the air force in Oklahoma, at the time. And I got a call from my aunt, in June, I had just finished my final exams, and I wanted to go party, and she told my mother I had to come out, that she had a nice boy for me to meet. And I said I have a date Friday night, Saturday night, I'm you know . . . And my mother said, ah, you know what you have here, you don't know what you have there, go. So I took a bus out to Allentown, and my uncle picked me up at the bus stop, and came to their house. I wanted to go party that night. I was supposed to meet him Saturday night, but they announced we were going to a synagogue that night. Which was the last thing in the world I wanted to do. But I didn't have much choice, so we walked into the synagogue, and I picked a row, and I went in. and - I don't know if you know the word b'sherkt. Meant to be. I sat down next to him. So . . . SC: Ha-ha. MF: So we looked at each other, and I saw my aunt lean forward, and my soon to be mother-in-law lean forward, and they introduced us, and we started talking. We still joke about the fact that when the service started, and we stood up Arnan went, "Where'd she go? Ha-ha. But we met that night. SC: So the stars were all out, and there were fireworks. Ha-ha. GE: All in alignment. MF: All in the right alignment. Ha-ha. And so we drove around in his fancy car that night, and we hung out the next day, and so on. And when I went back to- AF: I didn't have a fancy car back then. MF: Well, was that your father's car? AF: Yeah. MF: It was a- it was a very pretty car. Anyway when I came home, my mother said, So? And I said, well if I don't marry him, I'm going to marry somebody just like him. So I guess I kind of knew. And I went to camp, he went back to the air force. Ha-ha. So I was very young, I was just, was I still seventeen? Or I was eighteen? AF: Sixteen- oh no, you were eighteen. MF: I was eighteen. AF: Eighteen and a half. MF: Oh, okay. So, we corresponded all summer, I was a counselor at camp, and he came home for the Jewish holidays, and I saw him. And he was discharged in November. AF: Actually in August, but I stayed on in school. MF: Okay. And- SC: What was the name of the camp? MF: Oh, it was the New Jersey Y Camps. Which was kind of akin to Pinemere here. But it was in Milford, Pennsylvania, and I had gone there for years. Actually, just a quick step back, my parents didn't have a lot of money, but my Uncle Ukie, that was my father's second younger brother. SC: Israel. MF: Right. He married very late, he never had children, and there was a period of time he lived with us, and he adored me. He was- I- you know the sun rose and set with me. And he was a salesman in the garment industry for a company called Kirkland Hall Suits. I think I still have a couple of his suits hanging in the closet because I can't bear to get rid of them. But he had the wherewithal to send me to camp. So I started going to camp at around the age of six. Which was a lifesaver for me, and helped me to grow and be more independent, and so on. So I went to New Jersey Y camps. First I went to a camp in Connecticut, for a few years, and my cousins went with me. And I started the New Jersey Y camps. I think I was about nine. And that was because my father had a fraternity brother from college, who was on, lived in Passaic, New Jersey, and he was on the Board of Directors, and he could get me into the camp. Because you were supposed to live in New Jersey. So I-- and his children were friends of mine--they were my age, I thought of them as cousins, and so on. So, even though I was young. I had a lot of people I knew already at camp. So I- and every summer I looked forward to. I still have one camp friend left. We email each other now. So that was kind of a good story. Anyway, help me, where did we leave off? SC: Okay so the two of you met, and you graduated from college then did you work between the time you graduated, and then you got married? MF: Um, no, what I did other than working camp that summer was the following summer, I went to summer-school. I took fifteen credits in summer school, so we could get married sooner, rather than waiting until the next June. So I- between NYU and Hunter college, I was able to get all my credits in, and I graduated in January of 63' and 1963, and so I was... SC: Twenty? MF: I wasn't even twenty yet. SC: Nineteen? MF: I was turning twenty, but I was still nineteen. And I still laugh about the fact that when we picked our wedding date that I said, well I need a month just to get my- you know. So I picked the end of February for us to get married, and my mother said, " February, It'll snow." And I said, "No! It won't snow." It snowed. But- GE: February 63' is when you got married. MF: Yes February 24, 1963. So yeah there was no time to work then. I think I might have- I remember a little job working at a JCC with a group of girls, you know, briefly. But that was- it might have been in that period of time. And then I came out to Allentown as a new bride. And I was Mina Finkelstein's Daughter in law. Everybody knew my mother in law because she was this beautiful woman who really had a spell on the community. And she was president of the sisterhood, and she'd been president of Hadassah and was - and I was very open to her. She had great style, and she taught me lots of things and so I she made me a life member of Hadassah right away and the sisterhood, and I got involved in a lot of the organizations. But I also had a teaching degree, so- I mean you can't do much with a bachelors in psychology, and I thought about graduate school, but I wasn't clear yet where I wanted to go, or what I wanted. So my aunt Judith arranged for me to meet Judy Freeman, who ran the nursery school at the JCC. And Judy was thrilled and she hired me right away, and so I worked for two years at the JCC, Miss Marlene. And I still have some of my earliest students, my three and four year olds, still call me Miss Marlene when they see me today, which is hysterical. And then I was pregnant with our first child, Sharon, who was born in 65' and then the sixties were having children. Our second was born, Ilana, in 68' and Abbey was born in 71' and so I certainly . . . The work I did in those years was really more organizational. I used to say I am a professional organizational person, or professional Jewish volunteer. Yeah, I was involved in all the Boards and I was program vice president of Hadassah and membership vice president and on the Sisterhood Board. And on the Federation Board. Maxine and I met the first year as a new bride here. I was very lonely, and everyone said to me. Wait, Maxine Kivert is going to come back to town. When you meet her, you and Maxine are going to be great friends. And, Maxine knew about me because before Arnan met me, he had dated another girl in town who Maxine was friendly with, so Maxine knew about me, and I knew about her. And we met I think at an-- I remember at an ORT-- yeah, I was involved with the ORT also... event. And we knew each other. I mean we just immediately knew each other. And we became very fast friends. Both our husbands were in the textile business, so that was... And she went on to have three daughters, and we had three daughters ha-ha. So we had a lot of connections. And the first thing that Maxine and I did together was we started a Hadassah Study Group. There was a Woman's Study Group that my mother in law belonged to. And the older women belonged to. But we had children, and we were home during the day, it was harder to get babysitters. So we started an evening study group. That was just fabulous. And the first year we asked the rabbis to come and talk, and at the end of that we said, you know we're all college graduates, we can do a better job than they did. They sort of were winging it, so we would pick a topic. Hadassah would give us some ideas, and we would give out the assignments. And every other Monday night I guess for- it was just fabulous. Even Arnan would tell me he was jealous because we were learning so much. And it was like doing a paper, and you were the presenter, and it was wonderful. It went on for many years. It drew in a lot of young Jewish women that were coming to town because they would hear about our study group, and it was a great thing. And then Maxine and I went on to do a few other things together. We started a speaker's bureau, and we just felt that all these Jewish organizations were having board meetings, having meetings, and so on, and they never had any real Jewish content, so we put together a group of people who would write. We limited it, we had five minute talks. Just a little capsule thing, that they would go in at the beginning of a board meeting, and give a little talk on something of Jewish content and interest, and it was kind of a fun thing. And from that, Les Gottlieb was the director of the Federation at that time, and he came to us and asked if we might be interested in starting a newspaper for the Jewish community. And we already had our writers from our speaker's bureau staff so we did it. We started Hakol. And it was a very, very exciting time for us. GE: And this was about what year? MF: Hakol I think we started in 1975? 76'? Something like that. Somewhere I have the original. But it was in that time period because when we moved... AF: How many years did you - MF: Do Hakol? About four. AF: Then you probably started earlier because I was president of the Federation when you came asking for a... MF: Yeah, after about four years, I- he was president, I said, I can't keep doing this on a volunteer basis. I went to Federation and-- Maxine had dropped out, she said she was done. She would help me with some editing stuff. But it was a big job, it really was. And I went to the Federation and I said, this is really a big job, and I asked them to pay me 4,000 dollars, and they said no they couldn't do that. If they started paying for all these jobs, it wouldn't be good for the Federation. So that ended my career. SC: Did it continue on a volunteer basis? MF: For another year or so. SC: Are they archived anywhere? MF: Yeah I think they are, probably at the Center, or the Federation office. AF: You didn't keep any did you? MF: Of course I did. They're downstairs somewhere. It was a very exciting time for us. But I knew I needed to move on, and I started thinking about. .. I was also still involved in study groups and I remember giving a paper. There were two in a row, one was on interestingly, the growing threat of radical Islam, and um, I remember I learned all about the Shiites, and the Sunni's and so on. And one was on Theodore Herzl. And I remember coming home and Arnan said, how did it go, and I said, it was an A paper. It's time for me to go back to school, and you know, do it for myself. So I knew I wanted psychology. I started looking around for a program, and, by the way, I was also on the board of Jewish Family Service. And, Amy Miller Cohen, who was a psychologist in Bethlehem, I had given the paper at her house. And I was talking with her about going back to school and getting a masters, and she said to me, "Marlene, go get an MSW." and I said, "Really?" And she said, "It'll take you less time, you're not a little kid anymore," I was about 37, 38, and she said, "and you'll do what you want to do. '' So Marywood had a program at DeSales. And so I went. It took me three years because it was a part time program, but I got my MSW, and I had interned at Quakertown Hospital in the Psychiatric unit as part of the program, and I stayed on there, and worked in patient psyche for another ten years. And it was with a group called the Alliance for Creative Development. We were psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers-- creative therapists. It was a wonderful program, it was before managed care and all that stuff. And where we really could work with patients as a team and see results. It was a very very exciting time. And the alliance for creative development had the hospital unit, and we had in patient offices as well so I started - AF: Outpatient. MF: Outpatient offices I mean, so I started a private practice with them also... and, twenty five years later, I retired. I left the hospital, after eight years at Quakertown hospital there, we moved to a hospital in Philadelphia, in Fort Washington. It was Northwestern Institute. After two years of doing the turnpike it was enough. So I just did the private practice from then on. And in between there, too, Arnan built the house and we moved here and... oh I was president of Jewish Family Service while I was in graduate school getting my MSW. SC: So you've talked about your community involvement, you've talked about your career, do you have any other questions about the business? GE: Yeah no I think it did- did you have, what relationship or what connections did you have to the family business, if any? MF: Well, we tried for about two weeks for me to come keep some books for you. That didn't work. Ha-ha AM: She was our model. Every so often we would have an experimental- MF: Oh this is a very funny story. AF: Yeah, MF: I had, I've always had a dressmaker because of my size, whatever I would always buy always had to be fixed. So Arnan had this new experimental fabric that they were making. AF: Well we were just playing with it. MF: Yeah, so I took it to my dressmaker, this is before we were married, and she made me a bathing suit out of it for our honeymoon. And it was very pretty with an orange scoop neck, and it had some of the knit fabric in a print that tied, went around the waist or the hip, anyway, I couldn't wait to use it for our honeymoon. Fortunately we went to Caneel Bay, and we had this little cottage on a very private beach, because I went into the water with this thing, and the weight of the water immediately pulled it right down. SC: Ha-ha. MF: So I came out of the water with it way down. GE: Fine for a honeymoon! MF: That's right. GE: Fine for a private beach. MF: Right! Ha-ha we got a good laugh out of that. But otherwise, I um, always had an interest. I never sewed, I'm not terribly domestic, Arnan's much more domestic than I am. But he would bring home fabrics, I did have um, I had a dress or a bathing suit made for Sharon, but I took it to a dressmaker, out of the fabric Arnan had shown you with Sharon Alyse's birthday on it. GE: But generally you were not- you were just his wife. MF: I was not- GE: Directly involved. MF: I was not directly involved. I had a pretty wonderful and loving relationship with my in-laws, especially with my mother-in-law. My father-in-law was a quiet man, he didn't talk very much. And most of the time he wanted to talk to Arnan about business things. But he would come over to see the grandchildren, I still joke about - he would look, he would see they were okay, and then he would say, "Okay Mina Finkelstein, it's time to go home!" And she would say, "George! We just got here!" GE: Where did they live? MF: They lived on Livingston and twenty . . . and Ott. On the corner of Livingston and Ott. And our prior home was on 26th and Highland. So we were always in close proximity. Yes. GE: I think that's good. SC: Yes oh and I have a couple of my creative questions. What do you value most in life? MF: Well, probably my family, first and foremost, and the connections and the relationships. I would have to make that you know... SC: Yes. And what has made you feel the most creative or artistic in the broadest sense, or completed in life. MF: Well, I think I have a great sense of accomplishment about the newspaper, not the fact that I helped to start it, and it's still an ongoing institution, I think feels very wonderful. But I think I feel that way about a few other things that we started in life. The Am Haskalah was, Arnan and I were very involved in getting that off the ground. As were Maxine and her first husband, Arnold. So starting some institutions that are still going has been a very creative process. And being a therapist. I love being a therapist. I do miss it. And I saw a friend of mine yesterday, we had worked together in-patient, and became therapists together, and so on and she's still working. And we were talking about that, and how what happens now is the tendency for me to use it with family and friends. Ha-ha thatskill, and you know, trying to decide when I should keep my mouth shut, and when I can just be a friend and not say anything more. And even when they ask me for advice, what do they really want? But the fact that I touched a lot of lives, I think, means a great deal to me. SC: That's beautiful. And this is going to end momentarily. MF: Okay. SC: That's perfect. GE: Quick question, with the Hakol, so you started, you were there for about four years, then it went on for another year, I know of it today, tell me did it lapse? MF: No it didn't lapse, it- GE: So it continued the whole- MF: But it wasn't until I'm trying to remember, did Ned Shulman do it? Maggie Levine was still here. AF: No. GE: I know Sharon Bernstein I think I think at one point maybe- MF: Yeah that was a while- AF: Somebody took it over after you know- MF: Whoever did it until they finally- AF: But then it became professional. MF: They finally realized they had to have someone to do this, but it has grown, and when um... not the current one... GE: Carolyn, Carolyn Katwan. MF: When Carolyn- I met her. And I complimented her genuinely, because I thought she had grown it and taken it to a new place, that was our vision. Part of our vision when we started it was to see it become a Lehigh Valley - and to bring the three communities - because they were very separate. And Maxine and I used to lament that. You know it didn't make sense that my New York sechel [Yiddish for common sense], and we would be better in larger numbers, and to pull it together. And they've really gone on to do that now, and the vision for it - we were too small, and inexperienced to make it an advertising newspaper, as well. But I'm happy to see the ads in it. GE: And that's quite recent. For a long time it was still- MF: Well it was just the past few years. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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Marlene Finkelstein, June 23, 2014
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Marlene Finkelstein talks about growing up in New York City, attending Hunter College, and then coming to Allentown at the suggestion of her aunt and uncle to meet a nice young man, Arnan Finkelstein. After Marlene married Arnan and moved to Allentown she started a family and got immersed in the Jewish community. Marlene and her dear friend Maxine Tanenbaum (now Kline) started an evening Hadassah study session and later the Hakol (monthly Jewish newspaper published by the Jewish Federation). Marlene returned to school part-time to earn an MSW (Masters of Social Work). She then worked in the field of psychology/social work for more than twenty-five years. .
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LVTNT-23
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2014-06-23
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Title
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Lehigh Valley Textile and Needle Trades Oral History Project
Oral History
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Susan Clemens-Bruder
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Tama Fogelman
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5.4 February 5, 2016 Tama Fogelman, February 5, 2016 LVTNT-04 9:48 LVTNT Lehigh Valley Textile and Needlework Trades Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository trexlerlibrarymuhlenberg Tama Fogelman Susan Clemens-Bruder Gail Eisenberg video/mp4 FogelmanTama_20160205.mp4 1.0:|29(8)|52(16)|75(9)|98(2)|125(4)|150(3)|177(7)|202(14)|243(4)|266(10) 0 https://youtu.be/m1ztFsMJSl0 YouTube video 0 Introduction—Tama Fogelman SC: Today is the 5th of November- of February, I was going to say November. 
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 ; TF: Thank you.
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 ; SC: Thank you. I hear you. Fifth of February, 2016. And what is your full name? 
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 ; TF: Tama Kivert Fogelman. 
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 ; SC: And could you- What is your address? 
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 ; TF: 3057 Fairfield Drive, Allentown, P.A. 0 30 Tama's Religious Observances SC: [W]e want to start with just stories about how you joined the synagogue and your religious life? 
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 ; TF: Okay, well, I think I can do that. My husband and I joined the reform Temple originally. We were married at Bethel, which is- Oh what is that?
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 ; GE: Conservative. 
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 ; TF: Conservative, right. And then we had our daughter and she was about eight or nine years old when you start religious training. And we thought we would join K.I. because it was more how we lived and how we believed. And so that's what we did, and at that time, you went to the rabbi's house- home on a Friday. It was very, very small. Maybe it was still at 13th Street, the reformed, I don't remember. But then we had other children, we had two more- we had two boys and we had another daughter ; and they all chose different synagogues, because that's who they were friendly with. And we felt very comfortable joining others also, we were part of the whole community. That's how we felt. We were friendly with different people of different beliefs in Judaism, and we were very comfortable with that. 0 111 Tama's Joy as Wife and Mother SC: Well, what are some of your favorite family memories, as a wife and mother? 
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 ; TF: Oh my gosh. So many, I don't know. We always loved getting together for everybody's birthdays. You know, my sister and my parents and—we always had two parties for our children, one with just their friends and one with the family. And it was always fun and wonderful and it was wonderful. I was very happy being a wife and mother, that's how I- There was nothing else I wanted to do at that time. But as I was telling Gail, you know, every day was a new day. Your life is evolving all the time, even though you're in the same job. But it- it changes all the time. So- And my husband, we were on the same page about many things. 0 322 Tama's Children, Grandchildren, and Great-Grandchildren SC: With each one of them, what is something that's really memorable for each one of them? Or where they are right now, what are they doing? 
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 ; TF: Oh my gosh. Well, and you know, it would take forever, but—well the one son is in town now. He- He was in our business. Of course, it closed. Now he's started a business in Philadelphia called Intelligent Office, and it's like a- What do you call those offices? What's the word?
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 ; GE: Sharing? 
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 ; TF: Well yeah, that, but it has another name to it. You know, they offer all kinds of help in office work—phone, services, rooms. I mean, it's a beautiful office. It's a- It's a- What do you call it that he bought?
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 ; GE: Oh, a franchise?
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 ; TF: Yeah, a franchise. And he seems very well-suited for this kind of thing—to bring in customers all the time, and... He likes meeting people. Well, you met him. He likes talking to people and hearing, you know, what they're doing. So he's been at that a few years now. So that's good. 
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 ; SC: This is Mark?
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 ; TF: That’s Mark, yeah. And Steve is in New York now, and he’s- he's a writer, an actor, and that kind of thing. And our oldest daughter is a visiting nurse. She's still doing it at sixty-two years old, she still is doing that. She likes it. And then our youngest daughter works for Riderwood. I don't know if you ever heard of that whole franchise of retirement villages, of big villages, very nice. So she- She became a real estate agent and then she went into this job. So she helps people, she helps recruit people and helps them with their move to the- to the facility. So she likes it. She's very good. So- And you know, I have a lot of grandchildren, and great-grandchildren—I have seven great-grandchildren now. 0 460 What Gave You the Most Meaning as Wife and Mother? SC: One other thing though—what meant the most, what gave you the most meaning of being a wife and mother?
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 ; TF: That's a very good question. I wish I had given it more thought. I think just to see them all become good people and they were- they were kind people, they were good people. They weren't mean spirited that I could see. I mean, maybe they had their moments, I'm not saying that. But in general, it felt good to see how they developed and- and- and wanted to do something in the- in the world. I-
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 ; SC: Seems like you and Jules were good parents.
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 ; TF: Well, I don’t know.
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 ; SC: That’s wonderful, wow.
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 ; TF: Well, that's good. But I mean, there were so many things I wanted to tell you. My sister said I should write it down. I said, “Oh, don't worry. I'll remember everything.”
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 ; SC: But it’s your view at this time.
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 ; TF: At that time, that’s right. 0 523 Fogelman Family's Synagogue Affiliations GE: With your four children, how they ended up being at different synagogues when they were growing up? 
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 ; TF: Oh, that's right, yes, that’s right. What didn't I already say that online?
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 ; GE: Well you said that you belonged to different synagogues, but here, you know- Each one ended.
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 ; TF: Okay, that’s right. Each one ended. Well the two girls ended at the Reform Synagogue. And the two- The one boy was bar mitzvahed at Bethel, where we had been married. And the other one at Sons of Israel, the Orthodox, because their friends were there. And so we never had to have a fuss about- to go to services. They- They- You know, they went with their friends. We went to the different ones, too. We felt very comfortable wherever we were. And we knew people in all the synagogues and it was very pleasant, very easy. 0 MovingImage Tama talks about the joy of growing up in Northampton and, later living in Allentown as wife and mother Interview with Tama Fogelman, February 5, 2016 SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is the 5th of November- of February, I was going to say November. TAMA FOGELMAN: Thank you. SC: Thank you. I hear you. Fifth of February, 2016. And what is your full name? TF: Tama Kivert Fogelman. SC: And could you- What is your address? TF: 3057 Fairfield Drive, Allentown, P.A. SC: And so, we want to start with just stories about how you joined the synagogue and your religious life? TF: Okay, well, I think I can do that. My husband and I joined the reform Temple originally. We were married at Bethel, which is- Oh what is that? GAIL EISENBERG: Conservative. TF: Conservative, right. And then we had our daughter and she was about eight or nine years old when you start religious training. And we thought we would join K.I. because it was more how we lived and how we believed. And so that's what we did, and at that time, you went to the rabbi's house- home on a Friday. It was very, very small. Maybe it was still at 13th Street, the reformed, I don't remember. But then we had other children, we had two more- we had two boys and we had another daughter ; and they all chose different synagogues, because that's who they were friendly with. And we felt very comfortable joining others also, we were part of the whole community. That's how we felt. We were friendly with different people of different beliefs in Judaism, and we were very comfortable with that. What else can I tell you? SC: Well, what are some of your favorite family memories, as a wife and mother? TF: Oh my gosh. So many, I don't know. We always loved getting together for everybody's birthdays. You know, my sister and my parents and--we always had two parties for our children, one with just their friends and one with the family. And it was always fun and wonderful and it was wonderful. I was very happy being a wife and mother, that's how I- There was nothing else I wanted to do at that time. But as I was telling Gail, you know, every day was a new day. Your life is evolving all the time, even though you're in the same job. But it- it changes all the time. So- And my husband, we were on the same page about many things. So that made it very nice. What? GE: Do you have a story you want to share of that- about you and Jules? Either as a young couple, before you had children, or-- TF: Well, it seemed like we always had children! I don't know, we- We just got along very well, I I mean, for the most part. There was not a lot of stress in our life. I'll tell you one funny story. We- I think we only had one child then, and we lived in a little house near my parents. And so we shared a car. We had one car. He took it to work. And then if- and then I went with- with my parents- my mother or something, if I had something to do. Or if he- If I needed the car, then he went with my father to work. So one time I remember that I borrowed the car, returned it, you know, and went to work the next day. And he called me, he said, "You know," he said, "you didn't fill up the tank, the gas tank. I ran out of gas." Oh, I felt so bad. "Oh, I'm so sorry, honey!" Then another time I borrowed the car and I did it again. But the thing that- and I- I felt bad. But from then on, I never did--the whole rest of my life, I never let it get below half, half full, half empty, whatever. But the point about him was he never yelled at me. Isn't that sweet? Because he knew, you know, I didn't do it on purpose and I felt bad. But I'm just telling you what type of person he was. And that's- that's what our relationship was. I think we had a lot of respect for each other and we had a lot of fun. He was- He was a lot of fun, and I guess I was, too. And- And that was our focus--to have fun with our children, also. So that's how we lived. SC: What are your- What are your favorite stories about your children, being a mother to your children? TF: Oh, yeah, oh my gosh. There's just so many, you know, each one--now I remember people saying, "Well, boys are this way, girls are another way." I never thought that way. To me, they were individuals and that's how I treated them. Really, as individuals. And I'm sure we made a lot of mistakes, I'm not saying that, but mostly they were good kids, they turned out very nice people, I think. Loving and good, you know, so we- we had a good life with them. We had a lot of trials and tribulations along the way with them, but- but it was a good family all- all the way around, yeah. SC: What- what- With each one of them, what is something that's really memorable for each one of them? Or where they are right now, what are they doing? TF: Oh my gosh. Well, and you know, it would take forever, but--well the one son is in town now. He- He was in our business. Of course, it closed. Now he's started a business in Philadelphia called Intelligent Office, and it's like a- What do you call those offices? What's the word? GE: Sharing? TF: Well yeah, that, but it has another name to it. You know, they offer all kinds of help in office work--phone, services, rooms. I mean, it's a beautiful office. It's a- It's a- What do you call it that he bought? GE: Oh, a franchise? TF: Yeah, a franchise. And he seems very well-suited for this kind of thing--to bring in customers all the time, and... He likes meeting people. Well, you met him. He likes talking to people and hearing, you know, what they're doing. So he's been at that a few years now. So that's good. SC: This is Mark? TF: That's Mark, yeah. And Steve is in New York now, and he's- he's a writer, an actor, and that kind of thing. And our oldest daughter is a visiting nurse. She's still doing it at sixty-two years old, she still is doing that. She likes it. And then our youngest daughter works for Riderwood. I don't know if you ever heard of that whole franchise of retirement villages, of big villages, very nice. So she- She became a real estate agent and then she went into this job. So she helps people, she helps recruit people and helps them with their move to the- to the facility. So she likes it. She's very good. So- And you know, I have a lot of grandchildren, and great-grandchildren--I have seven great-grandchildren now. So it's very exciting to hear what they're all doing, and I have to write down what they say they're doing, because I may not remember it all, it's so foreign to me, but I like learning about it, you know? So what else did you want to know? GE: I think that's fine. SC: Yeah, that's fine. One other thing though--what meant the most, what gave you the most meaning of being a wife and mother? TF: That's a very good question. I wish I had given it more thought. I think just to see them all become good people and they were- they were kind people, they were good people. They weren't mean spirited that I could see. I mean, maybe they had their moments, I'm not saying that. But in general, it felt good to see how they developed and- and- and wanted to do something in the- in the world. I- SC: Seems like you and Jules were good parents. TF: Well, I don't know. SC: That's wonderful, wow. TF: Well, that's good. But I mean, there were so many things I wanted to tell you. My sister said I should write it down. I said, "Oh, don't worry. I'll remember everything." SC: But it's your view at this time. TF: At that time, that's right. SC: And so that's fine. TF: Yeah, that's right. GE: One- One last story, since you had said it earlier and I just thought it was very cute. With your four children, how they ended up being at different synagogues when they were growing up? TF: Oh, that's right, yes, that's right. What didn't I already say that online? GE: Well you said that you belonged to different synagogues, but here, you know- Each one ended. TF: Okay, that's right. Each one ended. Well the two girls ended at the Reform Synagogue. And the two- The one boy was bar mitzvahed at Bethel, where we had been married. And the other one at Sons of Israel, the Orthodox, because their friends were there. And so we never had to have a fuss about- to go to services. They- They- You know, they went with their friends. We went to the different ones, too. We felt very comfortable wherever we were. And we knew people in all the synagogues and it was very pleasant, very easy. SC: That's good. Thank you. GE: Thank you, that's wonderful. And I'm going to walk you down, so he- TF: I don't think I want to see it, though. GE: No, no, no, no, no. It will be beautiful. TF: Because I'm not good at this at all. Copyright for this interview is held by Muhlenberg College. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0 /render.php?cachefile=
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Tama Fogelman, February 5, 2016
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Tama talks about the joy of growing up in Northampton and, later living in Allentown as wife and mother
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LVTNT-04
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2016-02-05
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video
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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Muhlenberg College Special Collections and College Archives
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